As the two piercing damage swords out there, which one do you think is better? Jitsu wa I've only every used flourish but snarbly barb seems kind of interesting, what with it's projectile.
I haven't even seen it used, but it basically seems like it might be a flourish that shoots things. Is there any advantage to using the flourish over the barb at all?
If anyone's used both and has any input that would be lovely :)
The Snarble Barb and the Flourish are the only two lines that deal piercing damage.
Looking at the stats on the wiki, the snarble appears to be the same as the Final Flourish line. I haven't used it yet, but the charge attack is said to be 45 degrees of spikes flying out. A bit better for mobs, not quite as good for picking a target and kiting for an opening. This is all speculation, but I personally will stick with my wonderful flourish.
hmmmm is the charge like divine avenger but spikes?
It's more like a spray of little spikes, not like giant spikes that hit mutiple times. I say maybe 5-7 spikes (around there) shoot out, not as good a range as the DA, but still more useful than the multiple hit combo charges.
The charge attacks faster than the DA so It may be a bit more useful for kiting, but the range is so small that it's not going to hit everything in front of you. It has some decent knockback as well, if you don't have a flourish with a decent UV already this is a great wep to consider.
It's the 5 spikes quite reliably. I think I quite like the standard Flourish attack. I'm still trying to see how it fits me. :/
it actually increases spikse the further up the tree you go, starting with 5 spikes at 2* and ending with 8 spikes at 5*
I've recently started using a 4* snarble barb (Dark Thorn Blade) and have been comparing it to my Grand Flourish. I present you with an abridged version of my findings:
Looks: 4* and 5* Thorn looks badass and evil while the Flourish is neither
Regular Attack Damage: Appears to be identical, but until my Thorn levels up further, that isn't confirmed
Speed: Appears identical, but my Thorn has a low speed UV so I can't say for sure
Charged Attack:
A) Description: The Flourish has a focused forward strike combo that moves you a fair distance, while the Thorn's charged attack will radiate projectiles forward (think sawed off shotgun) while the knight jumps back a bit.
B) Damage: The Flourish deals focused high damage precision strikes, while the Thorn's individual projectiles deal low damage.
c) DPS: I have no clue
D) Field Testing: The Thorn can keep enemies at bay, or deal higher damage to a less targets, depending on spray trajectory, while the Flourish's attack will primarily deal high damage to a single enemy, with the possibility of a few enemies getting caught in the wake.
Conclusion: One's preference to either sword will mostly be dictated by the charge attack. Therefore, I can reasonably conclude that the Thorn, with the tactical advantage provided by the superior versatility of its charged attack, is the better choice between the two.
TLDR: Sats are equal, but Snarble Barb's charged attack makes it the better choice
"Sats are equal, but Snarble Barb's charged attack makes it the better choice"
They both have pros and cons, so let me give a different perspective. The barb's charge attack has fantastic pushback. It has a swipe for a bit less than double damage, but because the attack involves a step back, this will not land unless right up against the enemy at release. The spiny projectiles have a decent range and spread, and individually do about 1/3 the damage of a regular strike. Without being right against the enemy on release, I found typically only one or two of these landed. With the flourish line, you get a triple lunge with three strikes of a bit less then double damage, with good knockdown if it isn't an outright kill. If you miss, or strike at a large group, you'll likely end up in their midst, whereas the barb moves you back a bit.
For my money, any situation in which the barb's charge would be useful for massive damage, the flourish's charge would work equally well, while for peppering a group with smaller damage, a gun is more effective. Sure, the barb's charge comes with a lot more pushback than a gun, but it also takes a lot longer to execute and I can usually just continue moving instead of relying on pushback to maintain distance. The flourish's charge, on the other hand, gives me something I otherwise lack: A way to punch through a group to deliver a powerful blow to a key target (such as a healer), and anything else between me and it. I don't use its charge attack all that often, but it's a lot more useful to me than the barb's.
Disclaimer: I've only played with the 2* barb. 4* and 5* barbs' charge may be significantly more effective in meting out damage, having more spikes, but I wasn't impressed enough to make it a priority to pursue it over the flourish line.
First let me start off by thanking you for talking more in depth about the charged attacks, especially for being more precise than i was about the damage dealt, but you appear to be making an unsound argument.
In no particular order, here's why:
1)You mentioned using guns: The rapiers only deal piercing damage, ergo, they are best used against Fiends and Beasts, both of which tend render guns all but useless, not to mention the fact that there isn't a single piercing gun that wouldn't either leave you open to counter-attack, or in the case of the Antigua line, with its terrible damage combination, is only useful against Fiends, OR, fiends, depending against which one you chose.
2) You didn't seem to place enough weight on the Flourish's drawback: Ever fought T3 fiends? They are not the sort of enemies you want to be around when you can't move, like after the Flourish's charge attack. Beasts are less problematic, but when you have multiple Alpha wolvers attacking you, standing still is dangerous.
3) You made your argument, whilst lacking insight: The fact that you haven't tested out a more powerful version of the Barb, severely hampers your ability form an objective conclusion. The 2* Barb is sort of crappy, but the charge attack greatly improves as you upgrade it, ipso facto, it becomes more useful, while the level of utility of Flourish's charge remains mostly constant.
Postscriptum: I am drunk at time of writing, so if my arguments are less than sound, please point them out, so that i may fix them.
No no, those are fine points. The only thing I object to is the adversarial feeling I'm getting from you, but that may well not be intentional. My purpose was not to say that you're wrong to prefer the barb line, but that the choice is perhaps not as clear cut as you make it sound.
1) It's a fair point about guns and damage types. Magnus does a fine job at hitting dodgers, but isn't so much a kiting gun. When it comes to wolvers and devilites, I usually switch to (mostly) hit and run tactics with normal flourish attacks. The barb's charge could be useful there (but see point 2). The flourish's charge is useful sometimes against gremlins and undead, too, where the barb's charge appears to offer much less compared to guns.
2) Yes, I have fought T3 fiends. They're not the sort of thing you want to be immobilized around, but they're not something I often have the opportunity to get off a charged attack against without the charge being broken, either.
3) I already conceded that I was extrapolating from limited experience with the barb. I'm glad to hear it improves considerably.
I have a quick question: Do monsters that automatically attempt to dodge projectiles, particularly the wolvers, react to the snarble barb's barbs as though they were gun-shots?
I've noticed that any time I use my BLIZZBRAND's charged attack, the explosions it creates seem to count as projectiles for the purpose of making wolvers freak out and mecha knights activate their shields, (to the point where sometimes the MELEE portion of the attack will also be dodged/blocked) so I'd be amazed if they didn't react to the barbs the same way.
I see your point now that I've recovered from my state of belligerent inebriation. Also, now that I've given my post a proper read, you are right, it does sound a bit confrontational. Furthermore, it occurs to me, in hindsight, that my objectivity might be tainted by how useful I personally find the projectiles, as a swordsman.
Yes.
The Snarble Barb's projectiles are indeed projectiles, therefore monsters that block and/or dodge projectiles will block and/or dodge the Snarble Barb's barbed projectiles.... of barbedness.
I hadn't noticed. I mostly use the barbs it at close range, which means I'm about to be attacked, which may be why they don't try to doge
there are 3 piercing swords