Usability of 'Standard' gear? (Cobalt Armor, etc.)
Mon, 07/07/2014 - 14:39
Hey there, Bossbane here.
So I've been reminded WHY I so often leave Spiral Knights, other than game designers who never seem to update stuff. Citation -- Iron Slug.
This game is nothing but grinding, for the most part. Those who refuse to spend money on a game, myself included, are stuck in their respective tier boss dungeon FOREVER. That's just not the kind of game I want to play. If there was 20 different boss dungeons, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. But the fact of the matter is that there is grind for miles.
One way of reducing that, however, is simply using the armor they now, admittedly graciously, give you: Cobalt Armor.
Only, how good is it? No resistances, no damage perks, has good normal defense and piercing, which is nice for the Jelly King, I guess. I mean, if it usable and saves me well over 100k of expenses (Close to 200k for recipes, I wager.) I am almost forced to use them. Because I like Spiral Knights -- but not enough to grind it for days and days for gear.
Everything else they give you is actually quite nice -- Leviathan Blade, Nirtonome and Valiance I know are all good weapons. But again, without any bonus' short of a swift strike buckler as a shield (Which you need to go get yourself) or a barborus thorn shield (Also need to get yourself) are they usable?
Let me know from your experiences, because it would be happy news for me to know that they are, in fact, OK enough to go through with.
-Bossbane
Mon, 07/07/2014 - 15:21
#2
The letter salutation is
The letter salutation is usually addressed to it's audience, not announcing who you are. Unless you're writing this to yourself.
You don't need to sign your letter letting us know you're Bossbane if you already told us once. I much prefer the signature to the megaphone.
If you play with goals in mind, there is no such thing as forever, only small steps toward your small goal, which is part of a larger goal such as collecting all equipment and armor and heating it to lvl 10.
If you take into consideration that you'll have to do the same amount of grinding to level up each piece of equipment, and earning the straight crowns to buy the recipes is easily the LEAST time consuming part of the process, and equipment with ASI or Damage Bonus lets you kill things (read: grind for mats/crowns/rarities) faster, it's well worth the minimum investment to buy other recipes besides cobalt and to get other armors. And weapons.
Three Rings should renovate the cobalt gear, give it offensive bonuses or status resist bonuses. Perhaps asi low/damage low on each piece. Asi only at low levels, with added damage at 5*. Perhaps a med or low resistance to every status on each piece.
Mon, 07/07/2014 - 15:27
#3
Habits die hard. Hobbits die harder.
Sorry about the signing, it's a habit xD
If they have tiny resistances to everything and little weapon buffs, I'd be head over heels for it.
Mon, 07/07/2014 - 15:32
#4
The armor is considered one
The armor is considered one of the worst, it looks great but doesn't really match it's mighty appearance.
The leviathan blade has one of the most reliable/safe charges for dealing heavy damage to immobile enemies (turrets, cornered, and frozen/shocked enemies), against the rest if makes for a defensive charge attacks and a fair regular combo.
Valiance is currently the easiest to use gun, reliable knockback, simple combo, fair damage, and a charge that works fair. (the Impending gunner update aims to give the blaster line damage types so expect the valiance to fade into obscurity to keep the leviathan blade company in the deep neverused part of your backpack).
The Nitronome is the solo bomber's staple bomb, good ctr, nice knockback, good damage. The biggest downside is the massive blue flash that covers your screen every time it goes off, this makes seeing incoming bullets hard and makes playing with said bomber hard.
Mon, 07/07/2014 - 16:34
#5
agree
I agree with the other posters that the armor is terrible and the weapons merely okay. I disagree with the original post here:
One way of reducing that, however, is simply using the armor they now, admittedly graciously, give you: Cobalt Armor.
The game gives you the recipes. It doesn't give you the items themselves. You still have to spend your crowns, orbs, and materials to make the stuff. You still have to use your fire crystals to heat it. When you figure the total cost of an item like this, the recipes are a tiny fraction of the total cost. So the "discount" on these items is pretty small, and certainly doesn't make up for their mediocre quality.
Mon, 07/07/2014 - 22:48
#6
Cobalt set
A.K.A. noob trap.
Tue, 07/08/2014 - 09:48
#7
It's used more as cosume armor than actual armor. Since it looks ok but the armor itself is pretty mediocre or can be replaced by many, better options.
See: Kat Cowls (Besides BKC). And maybe Arcane Salamander.
Tue, 07/08/2014 - 17:17
#8
Arcane Salamander is worse
Is that a troll? Arcane Salamander is one of the worst armors in the game (its offensive bonuses don't match its defense). And, to add insult to injury, it's pretty hard to get (Shadow Lair).
Tue, 07/08/2014 - 18:33
#9
@ bopp
It is bad but it has a much better defense as an elemental armor compared to some others and it provides damage agaisnt slimes and beasts allowing it to dispatch two threats a bit easier. It has a good usability agaisnt gremlin and construct, while being able to put up a decent fight against slime and beast, leaving only shadow damage monsters to trouble you.
In comparison to the Azure set it certainly trumps it but most would prefer something better like Vog set.
Tue, 07/08/2014 - 18:52
#10
Arcane salamander has the highest normal+elemental defense outside of volcanic plate, and comes with fire resistance to boot. It just gets a bad rap because people don't consider it as a defensive item, and instead just think of it as a defective volcanic salamander suit that has beast and slime low... the low buffs aren't even the big highlight of the armor, and are really just there as a little added bonus to give it an edge against random mobs that pop up and limit its defensive capability.
If you made it your endgame set for elemental+fire defense, it could really shine with some decent UVs stacked up to reach even higher than you would be able with something like vog or even volcanic demo.
Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:49
#11
okay, but
Thanks (both of you) for pointing out that its elemental defense is pretty big. I hadn't noticed that. I agree that it is better than Azure Guardian.
But you know what question that leads us to: Does the extra elemental defense (relative to say Vog Cub) matter? Or is it so small that I wouldn't notice, when taking a hit?
Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:06
#12
This thread is great.
Two new things to say regarding Cobalt and the Arcane Salamander.
First about the Arcane. I have not done too much with it besides costume work, but I have used it a bit. Well, I actually don't have the Helmet yet, but the armor I do have. I'd say it works quite well with some hybrid sets. I have found that combining it with Skolver or Shadowsun (or Bombastic if you are a UVed bomber) Helms gives you decent offense against slimes and beasts depending on your weapon. It will also protect you from the elemental enemies that can sometimes be found along with them. Especially in Clockwork Passages. So it works much better than Cobalt which barely helps with anything.
Oh, and for the higher defense, I'm going to say what applies to everything defense in this game. It's there, but the only way to know is by risking your death.
Now for what I have to say about Cobalt. I have decided that I love it and it is a great set that everyone should use. I say this because everyone else using Cobalt will make me feel better at this game when I don't.
Tue, 07/08/2014 - 23:32
#13
There is one good thing about Cobalt.
The shield, Aegis, is better than Celestial Shield.
On a more serious note, the Spiral Order weapons are top-tier in usability, and IMO they are the most balanced weapons in the game if you follow the main lines (Leviathan Blade, Valiance, Nitronome). The armour, no matter what arguments you use for it, is terrible, easily the worst armour in the game. You could argue that Arcane Salamander is just as bad, but you have to remember that Arcane Salamander at least gives a max status resist to a fairly dangerous status, so it's definitely better than Cobalt.
Aegis would actually be a really good shield since it's quite a bit more tank-y than Barbarous Thorn Shield, but since Ironmight Plate Shield exists, and for that matter, Savage Tortoise as well, Aegis is quite useless in terms of being the go-to piercing-tank shield.
You asked about the weapons being usable-- they most certainly are. Nitronome is a staple bomb in any given bomber's arsenal, giving good pushback when cornered along with solid normal damage allowing it to be used against any family effectively. Valiance is just an amazing gun in general, 3 shots per clip with average range and a fairly big hitbox, with a charge that's good for openers, and again, normal damage makes it effective against any family.
Leviathan Blade is the only one of the three that could be considered somewhat bad, but in the end it's an amazing sword. It has a great defensive charge attack and it does enough damage that it can flinch most enemies with its normal 3-hit combo. It's only truly outclassed when someone has extra weapon slots, in which case you could just use a brandish to murder everything. But it's still a solid sword nonetheless and its usefulness is very apparent even without bonuses.
__________
Don't know if it's been mentioned, but Perfect Mask of Seerus has the same Normal and Elemental defense as Arcane Salamander.
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 03:07
#14
Regarding Leviathan Blade...
While I agree that Levi is a balanced blade, it's imbalanced in comparison to most other swords.
Brandishes have faster combos and more damage.
Flourishes have the same damage values but specialised in addition to also being way faster with a better hitbox.
Warmaster Rockethammer and Divine Avenger/Graun Faust are quite different but they outshine Levi with ease in terms of dps and combo safety unless used against something they're not effective against.
WRH in particular is able to achieve what's probably the highest combo DPS available in the game if you know how to use it.
Levi's only strong point is the charge. The charge is insane, really. It's safe (for you, but not necessarily your teammates) and will one-shot most turrets without even dealing effective damage. It can also deal heavy damage to Trojans and other heavy enemies and it's just great for creating breathing room.
But the combo is just awful. It's worse than almost everything else available.
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 23:28
#15
@Dibsville
Lol, I hadn't noticed that. For some reason I thought it had less- probably because of how amazing its offensive stats are. Seerus should really have its defense knocked down to chaos levels if that's the case.. or arcane and other defensive items could be buffed up a bit more, since most people don't value it at all. But hey, there's still the bit where seerus has no armor piece to go with it.
@Krakob
Well yeah, but the default set of cobaltish weapons feel balanced compared to most things. They don't feel immensely powerful like acheron, but they don't feel underwhelming like shard bombs. They feel middling. Useful and strong, but not godly.
Thu, 07/10/2014 - 01:20
#16
my 34 cents
Aegis
My friend IRL recommended me to make this shield for my first run through the campain and I relented due to the fact I was piss poor and the fact that the recipe is for free make this shield desirable... BIG MISTAKE THIS SHIELD IS GARBBAGE, its high normal defence worth squatt when there is no status resist (which is more important, but I didn't knew back then.) Now days, I much prefer using owlite, CoA, skelly and dragon scale shield, only on a few favoured occasions (wolver den or slime level).
Colbalt set
Thank the flying rainbow unicorn that I never crafted this piece of crap over 3* and sticked with my quicksilver set, the MSI is not really beneficial but still it is a superior chocie over azure guardian (shock resist is something to consider), I never liked its look.
Levi
Well, I crafted its undead hating cousin but hey, they are close enough. CIV as a sword was competent when I first had it, it is actaully my first 5* sword (with acheron been my second) and I have to admit even the silent night blade had better killing power than the CIV, in the past I was forced to use this sword in missions like FSC, HoI and LoA, it was then the sword became comepletely obsolete in a 4 men party. Grand Flourish and glacius have now filled its place in my arsenal.
Valiance
I remeber a time when I kite the jellies endlessly in RJP while all my newb team mates are down, what a painful grind it was. I upgraded it to 4* and never made it to valiance until the forge update. Polaris, sentenza and blitz needle soon took valiance's place. It was a fun three shot blaster while it lasted. A good weapon for newbs in RJP and IMF, but definately not worth the orbs past 3*
Thu, 07/10/2014 - 08:14
#17
:P
*Looks to see that cobalt has no bomb bonus'*
I guess it's useless :P
I had made a 4* Calibur and used it as a main weapon before I got into full bombing. Its damage on turrets with it's charge was pretty good when all of the strikes hit and the knockback in solo was good for getting me out of binds. Although, I'm not one for efficiency, the weapon damage was lackluster with normal strikes, but ay, it's a normal weapon.
The gun is more of a utility device than an actual weapon. I would use it knock something slightly out of zom nom reach or use it as a finisher when I had knocked my enemies too far. I remember it being very fun and the 3 sized clip being very convenient. Do not recommend as a DPS gun.
Made a heater shield instead of Aegis. Side note: Heater Shield is a niche shield that needs a buff.
Nitronome rocks. Must I say more?
Fri, 07/11/2014 - 08:59
#18
It is a bad armor set but not
It is a bad armor set but not the worst. That goes to the Drake Scale line. Because it lacks normal defense you will always take lots of damage and the offensive bonuses it gives are pitiful in comparison to other "bad" armor sets.
Mad bomber is another one of the sets that is a noob trap as all the offensive bonuses you get and more from Chaos set only sacrificing curse defense (which shows up only in shadow layers and graveyards)
The worst set for how hard it is to get isn't Arcane Salamander but Almirian Crusader helm. it has the same levels of defense as the base line, but trades piercing for shadow defense (good) and picks up cure resistance at the cost of fire (bad)
Fri, 07/11/2014 - 09:07
#19
Actually, the Dragon Scale line is great for C42.
Fri, 07/11/2014 - 09:13
#20
Drake Scale is most certainly useful. It has two good resistances and its split defence makes it useful in many levels since there's so much specialised damage in elite. The damage bonus isn't one you might call good but it's way better than no damage bonus and the set has some niches. It's great for any beast level with poison or fire and it's the best set for Compound 42, rivaled only by Set of the Fallen. It's a niche set, but it most certainly has more uses than Azure Guardian, which is objectively worse than many sets.
Mad Bomber is a remnant of the Chaos buff which OOO never fixed. It was never intended to be bad, nor is it bad. It's just outshadowed by Chaos. Using it isn't really bad, it's just that there's a better option.
Fri, 07/11/2014 - 09:32
#21
The trick to using dragon scale set effectively is understanding what it protects you against: Piercing/Elemental pure damage. What deals pure damage? Polyps, gun puppies, red rovers, gremlin scorchers, dust bunnies, snarbolaxeseseses, large jelly cubes, toxigels, gremlin demos, gremlin knockers, glop drops.. most of these are ranged enemies, even if indirectly.
If I know that I'm strong against bullet attacks, I can plan my strategy around that and come out ahead. If I'm up against a gremlins and construct for example, I can focus on countering the thwackers/mecha knights with my weapon knowing that most of the other enemies won't be able to kill me without great effort. Of course, there are better armors that provide straight up offense, and dragon scale set really only becomes the best thing when the majority of the level falls under the fire/poison/elemental/piercing umbrella.
Fri, 07/11/2014 - 14:28
#22
I'll admit
I guess I was wrong about the dragon scale line but I will hold to asure not being the worst for new players. I can't say how many times i've seen people die to spikes.
Fri, 07/11/2014 - 16:52
#23
I can't say how many times i've seen people die to spikes.
Well, you wouldn't happen to know what damage spikes inflict, would you? Or grates, for that matter.
Sat, 07/12/2014 - 12:43
#24
@Krakob
I've always assumed they dealt piercing. You know, because they stab you.
Sat, 07/12/2014 - 16:01
#25
BINGO
Sun, 07/13/2014 - 01:06
#26
I don't tend to focus on piercing defense, but spikes are less a defense issue and more being patient/aware.
Also I'm told the briars that cause poison actually deal shadow damage.
The armor is the worst the weapons are, up there.
Cobalt Armor sucks all the way through to 5 star. No matter where you go, I can guarantee there is a better option. What about Normal Beast levels? I'd rather just take a Wolver set. It gives me better offense and only slightly worse defense. If I am looking for defense, I could use my Jelly or Ironmight.
Anywhere out of these situations, Cobalt is the worst. I'm embarrassed to say I can be killed in Tier 2 with Cobalt on... But I honestly can't blame myself because with anything else on I do perfectly. Scrap your Cobalt, vender it to buy something else. If you can't afford anything else after you sell the Cobalt, go with a Fencing Jacket and a Cyclops Cap. The defense is about the same with plenty more offense.
But for the Cobalt Normal weapons, they aren't the best but they are far from the worst. The Leviathan Blade is reliable against anything you find, but not great. Decent speed, decent power, and a decent, though somewhat unsafe, charge attack. The Valiance is something different, You either love it or hate it. The power is not great, but better than some guns out there. The knockback and charge attack it gives is amazing though. I use it as a standard side arm all the time. The Nitronome would be my favorite of the bunch. A great bomb for soloing and good in parties if you don't drive everyone insane with it.
TL;DR: Sell your Cobalt armor, continue on with the Cobalt weapons. This should cut your grind time a bit while also giving you some power later on.