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Gunning - tips? help?

20 replies [Last post]
Fri, 06/03/2011 - 16:42
Captain-Teemo

Okay my ign is Captain-Teemo, and in this spirit I'm trying to play guns / bombs.

I got to t2 and my buddy picked up 2x sealed swords and upgraded them. With his faust we were able to decimate the jk so I figured I'd grab 2x antiguas and get those up... They work completely differently... This sucks... So much that I've actually sorta switched back to just using a master blaster. I've never had high damage numbers show from my guns on any mob, but I've seen a lot of low damage numbers... This comes from the guns having dual elements meaning they barely ever do great damage :\

So - master blaster - no element... that's where I'm at.

I'm using bombs too, and feel it might be better to keep a master blaster then just use bombs... I've got a shivermist, and that's great. I've got a 3* poison one I'm looking to upgrade... then I've seen the vortex and blaster bombs do some great things too, prolly gonna work on a set of those.

So now that the story is over, here's the topic / question -

What am I doing wrong here? Are guns just completely worthless? I mean, aside from the rooms you're able to kite to death which could be very hazardous to a swordie, do the guns actually give a constant bonus? Or is it just kinda ridic to go out w/ only guns?

Am I gonna need to focus on bombs to have a good effect with my team? Or are there guns I just don't know about?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:28
#1
Ozymandius
Legacy Username
Unfortunately...

The Antigua guns are very situational, despite looking like the coolest guns in the game. (Well, the 4*s are, I actually don't like how the Argent Peacemaker or Sentenza looks. Anway.) The strengths of the Antigua line guns are their firing speed, range, and clip size. This gives you a lot of mobility on the battlefield, and allows you to shield at a moment's notice, because reloading prevents you from doing so. The trade off is he split damage types of Piercing and Elemental or Shadow means the Antigua line guns will not do as much damage as guns that do a single damage type. Accordingly, the Silversix is mildly strong against Undead and Fiends, while the Blackhawk is only mildly good against Gremlins and Beasts, and the beasts will dodge anyway. The Silversix is also useful against Vanaduke, when you're ready to face him.

If you want to stick with guns, pick up a Magnus, and an Alchemer. The Magnus does Piercing damage, and it messes up pesky Wolvers and Devilites by not only hitting them before they dodge, but often knocks them down so you can keep hitting them. Alchemers deal Elemental damage, (Except the Shadowtech, obviously) which is great for Constructs and Undead. The Alchemer line at 3* and above ricochets extra bullets, which help deal more damage per click. If that weren't enough, the Firo, Cryo, and Voltech also generally inflict the appropriate status effect (fire, freeze, shock) to the target. Cryo is my favorite, but the others are also popular. You can also pick up a Shadowtech to cover enemies weak to Shadow damage, and those three guns give you all the Damage types you'd need (Piercing, Elemental, Shadow), though the Shadowtech is definitely tertiary to the other two. Pepperbox is an interesting line, one I enjoy a lot, but can be tricky to use. I also prefer the Pepperbox over the Shadowtech on the Jelly King, but admittedly Faust is better than both.

Lastly, if you stick with guns, wear the Gunslinger gear, or at least pick up a Swiftstrike Buckler. Increasing your attack speed with most guns makes a real difference. If you have more questions, I'd be happy to answer them!

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:30
#2
Alchemystic's picture
Alchemystic
The Antigua series does less

Teamwork with bombs is highly dependent on the type of bombs you are using and the enemies you face. Understanding how your bombs will affect other party members is important because you can get your party killed if you don't pay attention.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:52
#3
Stray_Cat
Legacy Username
IF you want to

IF you want to gun....

Cryotech or Voltech Alchemer. (I prefer Crotech)

Magnus Line.

I use the gun probably 60% of the time, and use my Acheron (sword) the rest of the time and that is perfect for me.... Perhaps not for you though.

Dont get too locked into the "gunner" "swordsman" "bomber" archetypes... be willing to diversify and experiment, and your experience will be better. I guarantee it.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:19
#4
w1mark
Legacy Username
What is the most effective with gunslinger gear?

Seeing as gunslinger gear increases attack speed, what is the most effective gun to use it on? I want to use the Antigua because it has 6 shots which I think would be good with increased attack speed, but I am not sure as I don't have the antiqua. It feels like the increased attack speed does not do any significant results with guns even with the master blaster that has 3 shots compared to the normal 2 for alchemers and magnus.(It might be useful for the magnus however)

Also, another reason why guns seem fruitless is when you are in a party. When you are in a party and you have a gun compared to everybody elses sword, you can signficantly see how much more damage the the swords do. While you are working on 1 guy, a sword weilder can take on 2 or 3 before you can kill it. Also, seeing how alot of enemies like to dodge bullets, it moreso makes guns underpowered. Nothing dodges the sword, you only need to get close enough to them which is mainly only a problem when facing gunpupies.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:24
#5
Dirty-Harry's picture
Dirty-Harry
From a gunslinger that experiments with bombs

If you're Bomber/Gunslinger then stick with a Voltech, Shivermist is probably one of the bombs you will be using, and shock can co-exist with freeze. The only problem I have with Cryotech is that the effect isn't passive, meaning if you freeze with the first bullet and you are spamming it will usually just break the ice, and also when you are a bomber pretty much everything is going to be hit, meaning freezing isn't going to do much. (This really won't matter much to you since you shouldn't be using a cryo along with a shivermist anyway)

Gunning isn't a DPS style of play so don't expect any crazy damage unless you get some lucky triple bounces in a tight group of enemies. To be honest, antiguas are terrible guns other than for chopping hedges for my 1 crown or firing at gun puppies at max range. Because of it's split damage it really won't be doing good damage, but moreso average damage across the board will a little bit of difference between certain resistances, going with Valiance (5* Blaster) or an Iron Slug would benefit better.

You should really look into the Nitronome (5* Blast Bomb), it's probably the best direct damaging bomb out there and I don't really like the Graviton Vortex much, but it's pretty fun to mess around with and I guess shadow damage is a plus.

As for equipment definitely go with the bomber sets, gunslinger outfits are pretty bad, and attack speed bonuses for guns are cut down a lot because of reloading. Don't use the swiftstrike since it won't help out your bombs much, and it's a paper shield.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:33
#6
Dirty-Harry's picture
Dirty-Harry
@w1mark The most effective

@w1mark
The most effective gunslinger gear is the Nameless set, because of elemental defense. Attack speed doesn't really change the Antigua's already high firing rate, and I notice it most when using alchemers (the bullets fire nearly on top of each other with higher speed).

When in a party you shouldn't be taking on enemies 1 on 1 anyway, the role of the gunslinger is to do some damage from afar to help the sword users. If you had 4 sword users on 1 enemy they will be competing with eachother because of knockback, where as 3 gunslingers wont compete with eachother because they will be all hitting the enemy while the sword user keeps the monster away.

The enemies that dodge a lot can be knocked down with some guns (magnus line).

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:16
#7
Captain-Teemo
Thx for the replies - I went

Thx for the replies - I went for the voltech as mentioned I have good freeze with my bomb so that is prolly the better alchemer to go with. I think I'm gonna look at going with 2 guns and 2 bombs in my weapon lineup, with bomber armor since they are somewhat more useful to the team.

For the time being I figure I'll stick with my master blaster / valiance while getting my other guns put together... Kinda sucks I wasted so much on antiguas only to find out how weak they are. Clip size is okay, range is okay, but damage is crap :\

I'm excited to hear that the magnus line will hit a wolver before it dodges, as that has been one of my main struggles with guns (damage aside) and is what drove me to get an ice bomb so quickly.

Thanks for the help guys XD I think I know what I need to build now.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 21:23
#8
Aziraphaile
Legacy Username
To answer one of your

To answer one of your questions that everyone else seems to have ignored:

Yes, it'd be pretty stupid to roll out into the clockworks with nothing but guns in your weapon slots. There's a whole bunch of enemies that are basically just un-shootable outside of one specific gun line or being frozen in place. You need a back-up plan. I'm a pretty dedicated gunner, and I make sure I always have a sword of some description on me at all times. Currently it's a Troika-line or a Calibur, depending on the stratum, although my next project after I upgrade my armor is an elemental Brandish or two.

The Antigua isn't a bad gun. Overall you probably get the same damage "per clip" out of it that you'd get out of any other gun. The real issue is that most enemies that are weak to piercing damage aren't enemies you'd want to shoot at. However, as someone mentioned, the larger clip size gives you more opportunities to shield mid-barrage, and a larger "safe" window to realise that you might need to. The two-shot alchemers, by comparison, are occasionally a liability, as they take longer to reload than they do to fire.

As for the low-damage issue, two points:

#1) Guns basically trade damage for safety. You're at range, away from the monsters' nasty melee attacks. As long as you're reasonably aware of your surroundings and what else is going on, you can generally get away with taking far less damage than your sword-wielding counterparts.

#2) Once you open at least one extra weapon slot, you can mitigate the low-damage issue somewhat by matching damage types to targets. The alchemer lines are good for this, offering pure elemental or shadow damage along with a bullet-multiplying ricochet effect further down the line. Making sure you hit the middle of a pack of enemies can make sure the ricochets hit something, and can net you a surprising amount of damage.

The role of the gun in most groups, honestly, is simply to supplement the damage of your front line people, or to take on specific targets that might be unsafe or difficult for a swordsman to reach or kill himself. And to have enough health to safely heal people when/if they fall down.

I usually run JK with a Shadow Driver, and my job in the palace (as I see it) is basically to get all the Jellies out of the way so that my sword-wielding brothers and sisters can take down the harder targets with out stuff getting in the way. The fact that I'm often capable of killing a whole pack of jellies before they can kill a Lumber is just bonus.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 23:50
#9
jooozek
Legacy Username
Magma Driver deals the most

Magma Driver deals the most damage from the status alchemers, in tier 3 on (not fire) zombies you deal ~160 dmg per shot and ~100 dmg per fire tick, of course the tick damage differs from monster to monster. Storm Driver is uh, i don't know, it was my first alchemer and i was all excited that it would cause spasms like it does to players but from my experience this is unnoticeable and the shock damage is extremely low, not contributing at all. Hail Driver would be good if it had slower firing rate, higher damage per bullet and didn't ricochet randomly. And if someone says its good against oilers, take it with a pint of salt. While the freeze will extinguish an oiler they will reignite if another burning oiler flies near them.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 01:51
#10
Fauxanadu
Legacy Username
A gunslinger should carry a

A gunslinger should carry a magnus (piercing damage), Shadowtech alchemer (shadow damage), and one of the elemental alchemers (cryo would be my choice), to cover every type of enemy.

That being said, guns are a bad choice...

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 10:04
#11
Mohandar's picture
Mohandar
Gunner tips: don't gun

I started the game as an avid gunslinger, and gradually became discouraged and embittered at the lack of love for guns. In most public parties, going guns-only is a good way to get people annoyed at you, because EVERYTHING that can be reached by a sword is more rapidly dispatched by a sword, generally without much more danger at all, if any. Guns will also cause dodging enemies to scatter everywhere, which can be extremely irritating. In short, if you group with competent sword users, you are the weakest link. (Now, finding a competent group can be a challenge in its own right =P)

I advocate running an elemental alchemer alongside a pair of swords; this setup allows you to maximize your effectiveness in any strata. With other similarly equipped knights and maybe a bomber-type, this party destroys levels with ease (assuming fairly competent players). For a no-sword bomber, it depends on whether you are more support or offensive- the former usually use the haze series with maybe a piercing gun; the latter run blast bomb as primary, with maybe one of the haze series as a side and an alchemer.

As far as alchemers go, I'm a fan of the Volt series. Some say the shock isn't reliable enough, but I feel that shock is an overpowered mechanic in general that cuts both ways (though far harder against the player). Fire and freeze aren't bad choices either, just be smart and don't alchemers on the inappropriate type of slime.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 10:48
#12
Aziraphaile
Legacy Username
If you're a competent gunner,

If you're a competent gunner, you should already know that going guns-only is a good way to get dead, leaving aside the annoyance you'll cause by scattering all the wolvers around. You must first accept that there are enemies that you simply can't shoot at. Carrying a second weapon type is pretty much a necessity, regardless of what your primary specialisation is. I recommend a sword, simply because they're just effective, period. Others might advocate one of the status bombs, most likely a shivermist series, mostly because it turns non-shootable enemies into shootable enemies.

That said, it's no more annoying than the bomber who uses a Blast series bomb indiscriminately, scattering enemies away from the swordsmen as they attack, or into people as they're about to attack. The charge attack with the Calibur line is almost as bad. There is a time and a place for these things, and in any party it's always nice to pay attention and not step on anyone's toes. There is honestly nothing more annoying than taking damage from a mob that you either made a point of moving away from or didn't involve yourself with because someone is being obnoxious with knockback.

Which is not to say that a bomber should never use a blast bomb. They need to cause some damage too. Just pay attention to placement, and work with your gunners and swordsmen, not cross purposes.

As a general rule: if the mobs are between you and your party, you're probably in the wrong place, regardless of what you're trying to do.

For a no-sword bomber, it depends on whether you are more support or offensive- the former usually use the haze series with maybe a piercing gun

Bad idea. More than half the enemies weak to piercing damage are the enemies that you can't really shoot at in the first place. Elemental or Normal damage would be a much better damage choice for a single back-up firearm, whether you're using swords or bombs as your primary offense. (Unless you know you're going somewhere that a piercing firearm will be useful...)

As a final note: As a good gunner, you are not the weakest link in a good party. You have mobility and the luxury of picking your targets. You can safely deal with a number of targets that are more dangerous for a swordsman to engage, or simply difficult to reach. You can, with a little work, kite whole packs of mobs safely while the swordsmen pick off stragglers or work on harder targets without interference. You might not deal all the much damage, or actually kill too many mobs, but you can give the other guys space and time to do their thing.

And if all else fails, you should have plenty of health to share when you have to bring one of your brothers and sisters back into the fray.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 12:05
#13
Ozymandius
Legacy Username
Well, some of that isn't true.

It's not that hard to play this game with only guns. I do it all the time.

Cryo Driver, Mega Magnus, Shadow Driver, Volcanic Pepperbox. And I could probably not bother with the Pepperbox, though I like it very much. For Wolvers and Devilites, you have to a have a Magnus in your arsenal. It hits before they dodge. And it does Piercing, so it kills them too.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 13:03
#14
Captain-Teemo
Thanks for more input ^_^ I

Thanks for more input ^_^ I always appreciate advice and other ppl's perspectives.

What I'm focusing on right now is an ice bomb to cc the room so the swordies can pick off their targets w/o worrying about the rest of the room. During some rooms I'm so busy freezing everything that I don't even pull out my gun... I'm okay with this ^_^ because I've had groups mention that the ice was the only way we lived through it. JK having a flame lash arena this time has really brought out the usefulness of my shivermist ^_^

I'm not t3 yet so I'm packing my poison bomb for jelly king. It's only 3* but as long as I get the status effect on him it's worth it. I think it helps to have it on jk since I've been with groups that failed because we ran out of poison / curse. I'll be working on getting this upgraded to 5* over time.

For gunning I'm using just the master blaster right now :\ but I am crafting a shadowtech and voltech, and keeping my eye out for a magnus recipe. I think it's gonna be weeks before I get them finished, but I'm confident they'll add the power I need based on everyone's opinions. I'll prolly still focus more on support than damage, using 2 bombs and 2 guns in a dive.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 23:49
#15
Senshi
Legacy Username
Hnh.

I run sword + hail driver + umbra driver. My sword is usually Leviathan, but I've been having fun with the Rigadoon line lately.
Especially because Rigadoon + hail driver + umbra driver gives me all three special damage types. No matter what I'm facing I can do bonus damage to it.
I think the ideal gunner setup is two extra weapon slots, a sword for those situations where one is called for (probably vile or dread venom striker, because the situations where a sword is necessary is limited to the jelly king, although it is true that people get cranky when you gun down a pack of T3 wolvers. Becomes a confusing mess with their teleporting, err, 'burrowing'.)

The problem with voltech and firotech lines is Quicksilvers and Oilers. They speed up and become much more dangerous when charged with their element. OTOH, quicksilvers do hurt the other monsters too, so some people -like- charging them. Then they kill everything else in the room (all the other monsters, you, your teammates... I think the people that -like- charging them must wear incredibly shock resistant gear or something.) In a nutshell, that's why Hail Driver is my first choice, although I do want Storm and Magma Drivers too... eventually.

The antigua experience isn't wasted though anyway - Argent Peacemaker is the first choice gun for firestorm citadel, most everyone that fights Vanaduke likes to bring one. If you end up going with only one gun, it's good for any undead strata you explore anyway, and perhaps fiend too.

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 00:01
#16
Dirty-Harry's picture
Dirty-Harry
Voltech & Firotech

You shouldn't be worrying about lighting up Quicksilvers or Oilers anyway since you should be using your Umbra Driver (or other shadow damaging weapon) against jellies. Maybe if you get an unlucky ricochet from another enemy onto the jelly, but if that's the case worry about taking out jellies first.

The main reason why people don't use firotech is because it's not very useful during citadel since pretty much everything is immune to fire (or healed by it). Why I stopped at Cryo Driver and went for the Storm Driver was because I found myself never getting the freezing bonus damage since they usually get hit before it thaws or a ricochet/second bullet instantly breaks the ice. Plus the number of people that use Shivermist that I run with made the Storm Driver so much more useful.

The reason people like to bring the Argent Peacemaker to Citadel is because they usually only bring 1 gun, and since it does half elemental damage it will do somewhat good against the Undead and it will do a little extra damage against Vanaduke because it's half piercing. However, if you bring more than one gun I suggest an Alchemer and Callahan, Alchemer for dealing with the undead/mechs and Callahan for dealing with Vanaduke. That combination will give much better DPS than an Argent any day.

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 00:45
#17
Captain-Teemo
Wow - my hopes of being a

Wow - my hopes of being a main gunner have actually revived - looks like if I do shadowtech + voltech + callahan + shivermist I should be completely covered for damage types XD

too bad ce is up to 6k crowns... I almost feel like just buying my ce and crafting everything lol Market is making it take toooo long -_-

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 07:45
#18
Dottor-Troione's picture
Dottor-Troione
About Alchemers

wondering how they work against groups: can they afflict more than one mob with status effect? At least with the charged attack?

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 07:55
#19
jooozek
Legacy Username
Yes, each hit has a chance of

Yes, each hit has a chance of inflicting the status so its totally possible. At 5* alchemer's charge attack splits into 4 bullets unlike those below. The chance for inflicting the status seems higher on charge attacks.

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 08:19
#20
Dottor-Troione's picture
Dottor-Troione
but the explosion doesn't

but the explosion doesn't have some radius like Brandish line charged attack ?

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