Just wandering off from other lumbers and happened to notice this thread.
I don't think Blazzberry ever claimed to know why OOO needs promos. Probably because he doesn't know. I don't think you know either, as you didn't say how much money OOO makes as you are just a consumer just like the rest of the other knights.
By the way, do you know how much a server is? How much it costs to run one? And if you think OOO makes enough money to stop promotions, is the server lag free? Is it good?
Do you know for a fact that OOO cannot afford a good server without all these promotions? If you can't answer with a definitive yes, then my argument is automatically proven valid.
faux, do you at any chance know OOO can run a server? do you knot it's not on financial difficulties? until you have proof of your statement, your argument isn't valid.
Major Logical Fallacy Ahead!
If someone can't give a proof that proves that your own statement, also without proof, isn't valid this doesn't make your own statement without proof valid.
That is because you didn't give any proof that validates your statement.
Now I'd love to use again the words statement, proof and valid once more: statement, proof, valid.
Now, if we could avoid this part of the topic (since none of us has economical proof or numbers whatsoever) it would be nice.
I think that we all can agree on the fact that the game is passing through a long time of content stagnation (the last weapons with recipe we've got are the Crystal Bombs, tortoguns are event related so they hardly count and the last new enemies are Gorgos, who are literally KopyKats and have particularly bad hitboxes), whiners or defenders alike, so it's a time long enough to allow the growth of an understandable disappointment, patience is personal.
Let's also agree on the fact that all of us would actually be happy to finally receive this long-sought update that is not boxes, whether you like the actual one or not (I definitely don't).
Ok, thunder is right. I'm going to regain my composure here.
Deep breath in
Deep breath out
Ok. Lets start with this.
"Well, if you can't provide irrefutable evidence as to WHY OOO NEEDS these promotions to stay afloat, then my argument is validated automatically."
If YOU can't provide evidence as to why OOO DOESN'T need these promotions to stay afloat, than you would actually be correct.
Making assumptions doesn't make you correct. Just because we don't know what's going on in OOO's offices doesn't mean you automatically are right. While its okay to be butthurt about no content, it's not okay to just join this forum and start mudslinging OOO right away with little evidence besides: "There hasn't been an update in a while." or, "Too many boxes".
That's not a solid argument. Give me facts, give me proof that OOO is using this money for their own personal gain.
Until you give facts and seem like you actually have an idea what you're talking about, you are not right. You are most certainly wrong. Assumptions don't make you right, whatever made you think that you should stop.
An assumption is noting more than an opinion based on what you've seen and gathered. Opinions don't make you correct. Facts do.
Do you know for a fact that OOO cannot afford a good server without all these promotions? If you can't answer with a definitive yes, then my argument is automatically proven valid.
Stop.
Both sides of this equation have no proof, and by one side admitting they don't have proof isn't proof that the other side has proof. (Gosh that's a tongue twister) Saying "You're not right so therefore I am right" has no validity except to maybe people in kindergarten who don't know better yet and politicians. Don't be that kid.
wow, I say something and four people back me up. well that's the greatest support I've ever got.
also, hi ladro, haven't seen you in a while.
'Stop spreading lies around galax.' ........Dude........I wasn't lieing...... SOMEONE LIED TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Scalding blows. You guys better have lots and lots of Burn Heals.
Also, "Midnight-Shades". Are you trying to ship me and Midnight-Dj together?
You're going to need a bigger bucket dude, because the drama is just too epic.
Want me to join in? @Welux Your argument is basically guilty until proven innocent, argument from ignorance fallacy. Your argument isn't valid, so isn't Faux's. I don't want to argue anything, but I'm gonna say this.
You're don't have to pay OOO anything, even for promotions.
Every payment entitles you only the energy and any other promotional products that come with it. They are fixed at certain transaction amounts (e.g. US$50 for 20000 Energy). You are not entitled to any other content, so you do not have any say into forcing OOO to make more content.
If you are that impatient, there are other games on the games list.
I'm not compliant to OOO's current scheme of work too, but I'm speaking from a logical viewpoint, not that I support OOO or support players.
Faux, could you please quit insulting people, especially canadians? I'm not one of them, but you have no reason to do that.
Fangel is right. Neither of the sides know how things work there so it's pointless to argue about it if you have nothing to prove your statements.
However, since Nick has left OOO, the promos have been churned out far more often to the point that actual updates are near inexistant. My guess is that Sega has something to do with the decision of making a lot of promos and Nick wasn't happy for it (or he got fed up with it), but since OOO was now on hands of Sega, he couldn't do anything about it so he quit. This is a thing that devs usually do when they're not okay with the company buyer's decisions.
So I don't think OOO is to be entirely blamed for this situation. Sega might the the real culprit.
I love how you state thet promos aren't actual game content (which they are). It's great to see some smart people around.
Anyway, this should go to the suggestions forum since you're telling OOO to make less promotions and more game content, but I don't get it because they're adding a ton of game content already.
You can't be the one to speak for Nick's leaving, and nor can I. I do not understand why everyone goes back to this whole "nothing has happened" idea is related to him leaving. Just because he was the "man who done it" means that it was JUST him, there's a team. Which thus, leads to your arguement being invalid as well, so you'd contradicting yourself there.
We think we know so much;we only know what we think to be true.
EDIT- o.o Also, @the OP, you know, promotions are in fact, game content. (Read Laffy da Zaffy's comment)
You know, people, there were a lot of promos before Nick left as well.
@Glad-Amparus
>promos aren't actual game content (which they are).
They're not. Not actual content everyone can enjoy at least. They might be something that devs create to make money from kids with credit cards at their disposal for them to gloat about looking fancy, but they don't do anything else. For those who are not interested on dress-up, it adds nothing of value.
@Pandafishie
I don't understand well what you're saying tbh. I'm just saying, Nick left for a reason and I'm just specualting.
@Krakob
Though I don't remember well if the promo streak started long before he left, if it is true, my guess is that Sega or someone else of higher order wouldn't let nick do what he wanted to (in favour for the promos) and after a while, he got fed up with it and quit. Maybe some other devs quit for the same reason, too.
It's like no one remembers the period before the battle sprite update anymore... It was basically the same as now.
Krakob
Well no, I don't remember well about it... But if it's true, we *might* get the arcade redux along with the "new" guns and new armor, which is cool. The problem is "when".
It's like no one remembers the period before the battle sprite update anymore... It was basically the same as now.
Exactly. These periods of silence always signal a huge change. From the number of people who keep acting as if it's actually possible that OOO (artists, designers... programmers!?) is currently only working on promos I get the feeling they're too emotional about this to read posts, to pay attention.
I don't agree with huge changes all at once because of the reason of complexity and speed, but again, the promos have nothing to do with it.
"I don't agree with huge changes all at once because of the reason of complexity and speed, but again, the promos have nothing to do with it."
Unfortunately you can't have my stash of Burn Heals.
Go get your own.
my problem isnt with how quick art updates are being released, but with how their rewards are structured. Whether it be rolling UV's or buying boxes the design is set up for people to (waste)spend hundreds of dollars and still not break even on their "investment" its straight gambling and remember this folks. "the house ALWAYS wins".
ALSO to all the people perfectly content with nonstop money making gimicks (promos) who claim its a job only the art team could do to kill time waiting for devs, dont you think there are better things they could be doing than clicking and dragging a color gradient for some silly reskin? How about work on some art for new level designs... or ooh ooh i know, add some more plot/lore to the game *comics etc* My point is that making promos isnt their only option, its the most shallow.
Also, "Midnight-Shades". Are you trying to ship me and Midnight-Dj together?
Um... This may be a thing I'll do now.
And Defeat, I'd only assume the art team is working on making the art for levels as well. The new tier 3 boss could have plenty of artwork that's being done with it in the past year or so, but that also will require some coding from the developer department. We just haven't seen any of this artwork.
Besides, the art team was here to make the art for Apocrea and March of the Tortodrones. They haven't been doing nothing but promos for the last year.
ALSO to all the people perfectly content with nonstop money making gimicks (promos) who claim its a job only the art team could do to kill time waiting for devs, dont you think there are better things they could be doing than clicking and dragging a color gradient for some silly reskin? How about work on some art for new level designs... or ooh ooh i know, add some more plot/lore to the game *comics etc* My point is that making promos isnt their only option, its the most shallow.
This kind of implies an assumption that the promos are also what they're currently working on (re: another argument I use from experience is that artists can be given tasks for scheduled promos/tasks months ahead of time). Comics sound like a side project in comparison to working on assets for content in production. I mean hey, it'd be cool, but y'know, management :\
Making promos AREN'T their only option, but it's likely the only thing they can RELEASE atm. They have made some nice level art (see> event assets, or the officially "leaked" water-themed-level hints) but there's nothing visible for that unless the design side (whether it be overall game design or level design) sets up content for it. And so far, the only new content I've seen like that has been in the form of event missions. While I've been on the programmer side of the wall and worked closely with the artist side, I can't really give a good estimate on wtf I think Three Rings' designers are doing aside from trying to tweak guns/weapons for the upcoming gunner update. Designer responsibilities really differ per company, but they can really drive the direction and choices made @_@
IMO the mission system has created this heavy chain by which content has to be bound. Before, they could easily say something like "Hey! we've created a new level type! Go check it out in the clockworks!" but now, everything has to be somehow rationalized into the game via missions. The prestige/event mission idea is .. okay and cool to show off the "premium-designed" content like apocrea/tortodrone but what happens when they want to show off a new boss, or a new level theme? We're likely going to see a lot more temporary content (events, prestige missions) before we'll ever see something like permanent additions to missions.
Yeah, this argument is pointless. it's like were arguing with a wall that insults people. I'm just gonna lurk, and wait in the shadows for a gm to lock this thread, which should have happened when the first batch of insults rolled out.
No good points have been made, he refuses to answer to the facts we put up, and just insults people.
You'd better hope no gms or devs are Canadian, or your gonna get a nice big warning/suspension or maybe a ban. Considering in your other threads you just used those topics as an excuse to insult people.
Megawatt-King: @Glad-Amparus
>promos aren't actual game content (which they are).
They're not. Not actual content everyone can enjoy at least. They might be something that devs create to make money from kids with credit cards at their disposal for them to gloat about looking fancy, but they don't do anything else. For those who are not interested on dress-up, it adds nothing of value.
It's sad how you think it's not actual game content because everyone loves pretty new auras right? Or am I mistaken? And if I'm mistaken correct me, you do go on Steam when OOO releases a new promo and rage on it... right? Those people are savages who feed off of nothingness, and by the way, they won't get anywhere by sucking on pointless Steam releases. You all think OOO will listen to your rants and do something about it. Technically they are, but it's a slow process.
If I can say.. no, not everyone likes pretty new auras, I don't, and since I'm one of everyone, not everyone likes them =)
More seriously now, the point isn't on the etymology or usage of the term "game content", everything in a game is content, even the options are, the point is that this latest content isn't that "juicy". So I think most people here are lamenting the lack of "juicy game content".
I mean, changing textures over the same gear again and again isn't really what I would call "juicy game content" and I don't think you can disagree with this.
I will be happy when I'll see some new recipes with weapons that finally look different than others, like a crossbow, bowie knife or whatever and not something that looks flashy but acts exactly like something already existing (yes, Im looking at you node crusher)
Still, if you want to spend money to wear a pair of glasses over a slightly different tailed helm and you are happy with it, who am I to judge your tastes?
(even if I find this kinda superficial but I'm not gonna tell it openly, shhhh..)
Also, "Midnight-Shades". Are you trying to ship me and Midnight-Dj together?
Um... This may be a thing I'll do now. ~Fangel
OH NO YOU DON'T, I will make ship you with pandafishie!!!
guys, I don't see all the guys that want to argue anymore, so you can decide to cointinue derailing or let this sink to the bottom.
I prefer the latter.
Glad-Amparus
What are you smoking, glad? I was being ironic about the "kiddies with the credit card" thing. I don't mind promos as long they're occasional or accompanied with more substantial stuff (for everyone, that is), which is not the case with the game at the moment. And as I said, cosmetics aren't content with actual substance or "meat". I could be beating up gremlins with this new fancy tea party hat I got from the newest promo, but I'd still be beating them up in the same old way as before. Nothing changes.
I will admit two things today: I'm relatively new to the forums here, but been playing for over a year now, and that until reading this post, I was quite against the constant promotions.
@ Midnight-DJ That song made me laugh so much, I find it amusing to know how much it's been used. If I see someone in game complaining, gonna use it verse for verse. >:-)
I used to think they only did promo's for the main reason of money grabbing, but as someone who does art, I can understand why they would do so much of them, and why the major updates haven't been heard of.
I was also one of the lucky few who managed to get onto the preview server (of course by paying for something, namely Kat boxes)at its time of opening for the gunner update, and just looking at all the armours, guns and so forth that is going to be implemented, I can also understand why that combined with the arcade redux, it would take so long to release.
Also, to the original poster of this, Faux, you should take some time to prepare your argument against this and any further problems you have with life. Accept that this is an MMO and consider that OOO does need to make money somehow.
I am glad you liked the song, however, I do not claim copy right to it. The credit goes to Mr. Hideo Kojima, my song's lyrics are a parody of the lyrics of the song 'collective consciouness'. You can check it out on youtube and rewrite the lyrics depending on what game you are singing about.
Can we stop posting on here?(don't hate me)
@ Midnight-DJ Well, either way I found it amusing ;)
I also had another thought, sitting at my desk at school (yes, probably should be doing some photoshop right now) that goes unnoticed a lot, but some people do forget that spiral knights is an MMO F2P game, before they start complaining about these promotions. Kinda makes me sad, they don't even look at what they are saying when they make these posts, and how the team behind it feel about these reactions. Not to say OOO has delayed gunner out of spite, but do think before you blather about how wrong they are doing it, that's your opinion and yours alone.
@Glad-Amparus
Then you might want to check the quality of the air there, master ruseman.
Well, if you can't provide irrefutable evidence as to WHY OOO NEEDS these promotions to stay afloat, then my argument is validated automatically.