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Dodging Guide

17 replies [Last post]
Mon, 08/11/2014 - 08:02
Changonanak's picture
Changonanak

After poring over many Spiral Knights guides pertaining to various subjects, I have noticed a shocking absence of a cohesive guide for dodging.

While I do understand that many players learn how to dodge from experience, thus creating different dodging methods for different monsters/attack patterns, I also suspect that there is a most efficient way to dodge most monsters/attacks. This leads me to one of two conclusions: either a guide exists and I have not found it, in which case, it would be excellent if someone pulled a Bopp and directed me to it. If complete a guide actually does not exist, the following would be my hopes for it's format and content.

The content would first be divided by monster family. Within each monster family, there would be sections on every category within that family. For example, within the Constructs section, there would be subsections for Scuttlebots and Lumbers containing their attacks, the most efficient dodging method, and how to know which attack a monster is charging for. When/if this is done, I would like to have video tutorials for every monster type, that way the dodging methods described via text would have better visual context.

Hopefully, there could be some kind of PvP/LD section as well with tips for dodging different weapons commonly used in LD (for example, how to effectively dodge a Final Flourish).

I would also like a to have a general dodging tips section for newer players, although I am not sure what that would include. My hope is that through collaboration of many seasoned forum users, we can discern the most efficient ways to dodge everything. This way, players who are having trouble because they take too much damage, endgame or otherwise, would have a comprehensive resource to improve their skills in the same way Bopp's sword guide is often shown to players deciding alchemy paths.

Thank you too anyone who chooses to collaborate in this endeavor.

~ Changonanak

Mon, 08/11/2014 - 08:13
#1
Bopp's picture
Bopp
pulling a me

There have been threads about dodging, but not about writing a dodging guide, that I can remember. I also can't find a dodging guide in the Steam SK guides. So congratulations. The following comments apply to PvE only.

As you point out, this boils down to a detailed discussion of the AI of every monster's every attack. Probably each attack will require at least one screenshot --- maybe even three screenshots or a video. So the guide would be huge. It would have to spill over multiple pages.

Alternatively, if dodging is really about the particular AI you're facing, then maybe there is no general theory to write about. You could just edit each monster's wiki page, to add dodging/fighting strategies there.

Mon, 08/11/2014 - 08:14
#2
Reto-Da-Liz's picture
Reto-Da-Liz

How to dodge: get 4 bars.

Mon, 08/11/2014 - 09:11
#3
Blazzberry's picture
Blazzberry
SCP-96

How to dodge: Play touhou or just simply shift your character lazily in another direction/press dash.

Mon, 08/11/2014 - 09:22
#4
Crazee-Pi-Forum's picture
Crazee-Pi-Forum
Move over, there's bubble-wrap to be popped!

How to dodge: Don't get hit

Mon, 08/11/2014 - 10:36
#5
Changonanak's picture
Changonanak
Thanks Bopp

Thank you Bopp, the suggestion about the wiki sounds like a pretty good idea, as I had not considered the size that would ensue for a comprehensive guide with screenshots and videos. Also, to everyone who said things along the lines of , "Move.", I was thinking of a guide regarding the most efficient manner/direction to move for every monster and attack. For example, with Devilites, would it be more efficient/safe to circle, strafe left and right, or provoke and flank? I apologize if it is unclear what I am getting at, but this is the best way I can explain it.

Mon, 08/11/2014 - 11:08
#6
Lsdakfjlkfdajlkads's picture
Lsdakfjlkfdajlkads
A guide for defensive

A guide for defensive maneuvers sounds interesting. I would call it defensive maneuvers because dodging is not always the best option i.e greavers. I think the guide should concentrate on some of the difficult monsters though. I don't think ppl need to learn how to deal with a scuttlebot.

Mon, 08/11/2014 - 12:27
#7
Turn-Me-On's picture
Turn-Me-On
^That name

^That name

Mon, 08/11/2014 - 12:34
#8
Mystrian's picture
Mystrian

Yes, because LITERALLY EVERYTHING needs a guide. It's not the servers fault you suck

Mon, 08/11/2014 - 13:31
#9
Changonanak's picture
Changonanak
^*Gives chill pill*

Mystrian, if you do not wish to contribute to productive discussion, then there is no need to validate yourself and you are free to leave this thread/not reply. And yes Mystrian, while some players are less skilled and rely on guides, there is nothing wrong with that if doing so increases their personal enjoyment of the game. It is a game after all, and a guide like this would just be to help players who think certiain attacks are "undodgeable" to actually progress and have fun instead of being repeatedly wrecked by a particular monster type.

Anyways, scuttlebots are probably the LAST thing that needs a guide, I was just using it as an example to clarify. Lsdakfjlkfdajlkads (I copied and pasted that, screw attempting to type that) does have a point about defensive maneuvers though, I will definitely take that into consideration. Also, what do you guys think about attempting to address dodging groups of harder monsters? For example, I know many T2 players who get completely demolished by the rooms of Devilites in Whipping and Mishandling, and struggled to pass the mission.

Mon, 08/11/2014 - 14:14
#10
Smalltownguy's picture
Smalltownguy
scuttlebots

Scuttlebots are easy, but they do need to be mentioned. If nothing else, because so many other tactics are based on the same ideas.

It might go something like: "Don't just stand toe-to-toe with the scuttlebot and whack it with your sword. (You'll kill it, but you might also get a bullet in the face.) Instead, run past it, turn around, and whack it in the rear. If it turns to face you, keep going around it. Usually it will stop circling after about 270 degrees or so and try to shoot."

How could we rephrase this to handle a group of scuttlebots?

The paragraph for lumbers might be similar. Parties of 3 lumbers - blocking the hallway so you can't just run through them - would be tougher.

Mon, 08/11/2014 - 15:27
#11
Mystrian's picture
Mystrian

Well, I understand there are less skilled people, i'm just trying to say that instead of all these "guides" people can learn to adapt and actually challenge their limits.

Sorry I was blunt.

small, about the 3 lumbers, you can always aggro them, move out of the way of the attack, then attack them while they are recovering

Tue, 08/12/2014 - 10:05
#12
Smalltownguy's picture
Smalltownguy
lumbers

@Mystrian: Yes, that's what I generally do. I was having trouble phrasing it in a way that new players could learn from.

And I agree. It's the "learn to adapt" and "challenge their limits" that we want. We want something to help teach them, something more than just throwing them into a fight and saying "sink or swim", adapt or die. Give them some concrete ideas that they can try out.

It's kind of like teaching students to write essays. The old school approach would be to assign lots of essays for homework, and claim that the students who got 'A's learned. That's the "sink or swim" approach. A better approach would be to let them read some good essays, pointing out how the authors got their points across while holding the readers' interest. You would assign a few essays of their own and might not even grade the first several. Rather, you would suggest improvements, have them actually do the improvements, suggest more, and have them improve more. Only then would you think about grading the results.

Similarly, you can bet Air Force pilots spend hours learning and practicing tactics before they ever see a real fight. The "sink or swim" approach would lose too many planes.

Tue, 08/12/2014 - 08:43
#13
Hellscreams-Forum's picture
Hellscreams-Forum
The real question...

How to dodge with latency...

Tue, 08/12/2014 - 09:42
#14
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Well that's part of the fun of the game. Learning a variety of ways to dodge a variety of attacks so that you can win in a variety of ways.

Tue, 08/12/2014 - 11:05
#15
Smalltownguy's picture
Smalltownguy
wolver den

For example, I was doing a wolver den level today. I had my trusty *4 Strike Needle, *4 gunner gear, and a Swifty.

I can one-shot a wolver on this level with a full charge shot, and I managed to kill a couple that way. But most of the time they won't let me charge up (darn 1/2 speed movement). So instead I run circles waiting for one to start an attack (watch for the yellow glow announcing an impending attack). Fortunately, wolvers can't turn once they start an attack. I step sideways so I'm not in the line of attack and fire a quick shot right at its nose. Usually it eats all 6 needles.

Then I immediately have to shield and/or run, because all the nearby wolvers will teleport.

Speaking of which, they usually teleport to a spot near me, aiming an attack at the spot where I had been standing (several yellow attack glows, all focusing on the same spot). But I step sideways before they can. Then I can fire a quick shot right into several noses at once, or even a charge shot if I have time.

Wolvers are especially vulnerable while barking. They don't teleport.

(BTW, wolver dens usually have a silkwing or two with them. The silkwings must die first. I run over to one side of the room, luring the wolvers behind me, and then run back to the now-unprotected silkwings. )

Wed, 08/13/2014 - 02:36
#16
Xxpapaya's picture
Xxpapaya
The papaya laughs

Reto-Da-Liz's response was my favourite XD I doubt any guide can help me compensate with my connection to the server(s). But I guess you kinda get used to it after awhile (everything is delayed by 1.5 seconds on my screen D: ). It would be interesting for me to create a "How to dodge guide: For players with a 1 bar connection" XD.

Wed, 08/13/2014 - 07:05
#17
Smalltownguy's picture
Smalltownguy
move it

I've been playing a gunner for a few weeks as a change of pace. I'm up to *4, and have been (mostly) holding my own on stratum 5.

Other, more experienced gunners should fill in the details. But there's one lesson I've learned already: KEEP MOVING! Circles, back-and-forth, weave thru the enemies, whatever it takes. Don't wait for the enemies to get organized and box you in. A boxed-in gunner will soon be a dead gunner. If that means you can only take quick shots and move again, that's ok.

Keep one finger on your shield button, ready to shield bump and escape thru an opening. But remember you can't shield while reloading.

@xxpapaya: Yes, this gets frustrating in the evening when my neighbors turn on Netflix and my network lag gets horrible. I run into things a lot.

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