Spiral Knights - League against the price raises, Boycott market energy

League against the price raises, Boycott market energy

42 replies [Last post]

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 03:08

Thoranhippo

I know this is a very recurrent discussion in SK, that sellers have rights and wrongs, so it goes for buyers, but considering the course of energy price lately I'll definitely only rely on mist energy, and I invite not-addicted players to do so. Glad to have fitted an energy-related thread in 3 lines (no longer the case, unfortunately!). Good game!

(Edit!) Just above as its said: your mist energy is free, daily refilling and guaranteeing a good hour of game a day, which is already fair! There's no need to rush on improving your gear when it implies spending most of your time paying back the CE you've just spent to enable you to run dungeons. Hopefully if many players start doing this, coordinately, prices could drop slightly, and sellers could realize they have to understand us, buyers. And no harm intended to CE sellers; just trying to make concerned players realize they got the right to negociate what happens in the market.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 03:31

jooozek

Legacy Username

I say, throw rotten eggs at

I say, throw rotten eggs at them whenever you see them!

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 03:33

kbe2k11

Legacy Username

If only I could craft on

If only I could craft on mist, can't really boycott CE unless I want to be wearing T4 gear forever and I've already boycotted purchasing anymore CE with real money.

Now if the cost keeps rising and goes above my profit margins well then I won't boycott I'll just simply quit playing.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 03:42

Thoranhippo

Not blaming the sellers, just

Not blaming the sellers, just think its not convenient to entertain their tendancy to raise energy price of 100cr a day. Personally playing on mist is OK for me, since I already have a full 5* gear with decent UVs.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 03:45

FatherCreamy

Legacy Username

After seeing the price jump

After seeing the price jump over the past week, I'm considering quitting this game altogether. It is a fun hack and slash, and I REALLY wish this style of battle system was used in more free MMO games (as opposed to the awkward stand-in-place-while-I-cast-a-spell games), but I just hate how this game revolves around their pay-to-play currency. I shouldn't have to feel like I'm dreading whenever I spend energy, in fear that it'd go to waste (some examples would be risking joining a random party, and end up on at the starting depth, or at the end of a map... and reviving myself). If this company is planning on making another game with a similar battle system, then I'd be interested in trying it out so long as I don't feel overly restricted in the game for not paying.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 04:38

Raul

I already am

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 04:40

Jaouad

Legacy Username

I still make profit with runs

I still make profit with runs but when that's not possible anymore, i'd have to use mist energy only and occasionally pay some.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 04:45

Wtfbot

Umm, not buying CE will

Umm, not buying CE will increase the price. . . .Did you sleep through Econ?

If the supply is low and demand is high then the price will raise.

By boycotting the purchase of CE with crowns you are making the market not profitable and therefore less people will buy CE with money and the price will raise further.

Here is a better alternative. Buy CE, buy lots of it. Infact store all your money in CE( this is how I do it.) Every night buy CE, convert every last crown into CE. Get lots, when the price raises to a profitable amount then sell. Now you have more crowns and all it took was time. The price is going to raise anyway.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 04:48

Jaouad

Legacy Username

I just came back from the

I just came back from the game and what I saw was kind of disgusting

254 offering to buy 100CE for 5300 crowns and

around 300 offerings to sell 100CE at 5400 crowns

Wow

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 04:57

Raul

^Artificial price walls,

^Artificial price walls, those will drop soon.

@SoSpecial It may drive up the prices however, prices aren't going to continuously climb and climb, once people are unwilling to pay the exorbitant prices, YOU WILL BE forced to bring them back down to more manageable levels.

The main problem I have with energy sellers is you think you can just charge and charge and charge and you think that you are the only ones that matter, that it's your ce you bought with your IRL money and you can charge w/e you want for it. Well, it doesn't work that way because in order for you to charge someone has to buy and eventually people are going to quit buying and then you won't sell crap.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 05:00

#10

Jaouad

Legacy Username

I think I might have to buy

I think I might have to buy some energy with real money. I won't have to depend on these morons

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 05:02

#11

Thoranhippo

Economics basics don't

Economics basics don't strictly apply to any economy, especially to a game's. First of all yes , price of CE will still increase, if nothing really concrete and game-wide is done. Buying energy to resell it certainly won't solve the problem, it probably contributes only in making it raise crown by crown to an exceeding price. I don't really feel like making an essai over this but the CE<->CR market works in both ways: CE sellers are lazy crown makers; CE buyers aren't willing to pay money in the game (on the instant they buy CE); meaning that obviously CE buyers needs the CE sellers, but its the same in the other way. Not saying CE sellers are leaguing to pressure CE buyers, but obviously there are waves of actions meaning to increase the price of CE quite dramatically. CE buyers also can claim that right to pressure their provider by refusing to let them take such advantage over their needs of playing. Afterwards of course, as long as players will entertain the raise of CE price, the CE price will raise. Its current price still doesn't exceed the profit made over 100CE on a Jelly King run; but soon or less players will have their fill of running through the same maps for hours to obtain a benefit barely exceeding 4k crowns (and that's about the very best to expect from this run, for skilled players).
Also, that's not much to say but I unfortunately was forced to study economics for hours and definitely, the price of a product that hardly sells usually doesn't raise, it decreases.

Buying CE with real currency isn't a bad choice, but its easily falling to CE sellers' pressure.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 05:03

#12

jooozek

Legacy Username

@FatherCreamy all your

@FatherCreamy all your problems can be solved by having a huge friends list of people who play in your time(zone) You just be polite and ask them if you can join their party, if they say no, you ask if you can join their party and Go Solo. I'm sure everyone that added you will allow for that.

Everyone seems to forget that in all f2p games to really enjoy the game you have to play some things smart if you want to play totally for free.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 05:15

#13

Thoranhippo

I hope it could be just as

I hope it could be just as simple as that jooozek; but playing this way, you're gonna be restrained to only play the same maps over and again, to "survive" this energy price crisis. Its a bit boring.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 05:34

#14

jooozek

Legacy Username

Lets not start the hypocrisy

Lets not start the hypocrisy while everyone does only jelly king runs.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 05:38

#15

Thoranhippo

WELL I wish I could enjoy

WELL I wish I could enjoy more of the game without constantly having to do JK runs!

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 05:40

#16

tsaitha

Legacy Username

I sort of fell in love with

I sort of fell in love with this game when I started and I was actually thinking I'd finally found a free to play game I wouldn't feel bad about spending a little on now and then.

Now for me.. to enjoy a game I need to feel like I am actually progressing when I play. What I mean by progressing is open to interpretation - here it could be gaining a few crowns, a little extra CE, a new item to experiment with, a new kind of mat that wasn't in my list before... But I hate "grinding" and with jelly levels now being the only thing that feels profitable, they start to feel like a grind. I enjoy exploring and playing new levels (love the recent new tier 1 levels)... but very few levels feel profitable now. And if I play a level, no matter how good it is, if I make a loss at the end... that just frustrates me.

I don't want to have to wait for the gate to cycle through four levels to do an arena or wait until a friend happens to have space in their party on a certain level. But this is where I'm currently at. I even tried several trips down to t3 Basil in the hope of reselling recipes to cover my costs, but after almost 20 runs down, I've seen him with 5 star recipes a total of one time. I've tried selling mats in the AH and so on.. but most are falling in price while the CE price keeps on rising..

This all makes the game frustrating. The answer - fork out for CE like I originally planned.

Why don't I? - I now feel crafting prices are too high and not worth it. I won't put money in to a free to play game that is this free to play unfriendly.

Sadly I don't have high hopes for the CE price dropping down again to a point where casual play without picking your levels is sustainable (unless you only play once a day on mist). The update lowered the worth of crowns (lower recipe prices) and raised the value of CE (much, much more needed to craft). This also means the CE sellers have far less need to sell in order to buy recipes.

I know all of this has probably been said already by people who understand these things better than me... Just sadly, I think we're probably not going to see prices drop much at all no matter what is said here.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 06:15

#17

jooozek

Legacy Username

@Thoran since i have all the

@Thoran since i have all the JK weapons i avoid the Royal Palace. Instead i go to tier3 for materials hunting. It's harder and more rewarding and there is no way you'll get bored. And your level of play might level up. I'm really sad that i only had one chance to go to a certain gate that had plazamonium few days ago since i only hit tier3 a little before the gate closed, otherwise i'd make some big cash. Materials selling is really viable, Philoso Feather easily nets you minimum 12k crowns, Shadow Steel goes instantly at 6k, Trojan Horseshoe should net you 8k without strain. Floors i visited were starting with 19 ending on 26 i think, revived only twice, you do the math. Do you really need to run jelly king?
EDIT: actually, 25th was the last one i visited, just noticed it on the screenshot.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 06:33

#18

Thoranhippo

I've done runs to the core a

I've done runs to the core a dozen times already, many times without even dying (I'm boasting a bit I know), but I rarely get those 5* materials, unfortunately. Plus when I get them, I need them for myself.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 06:48

#19

Njthug

Rawr

Good Luck

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 07:03

#20

Thoranhippo

I'm on it. Drooling (just a

I'm on it. Drooling (just a bit) on that loot I saw above.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 07:27

#21

Njthug

@Thoran

Yup, I do not sell my materials, but I had about easily 6 Sunsilver drops, 6+ Shadow Steel, 2 Philo Feathers, 10+ Flame Souls, 6+ Trojan Horseshoes..and much more.....Its more if you go solo in T3 the drops are worth a lot more if you know how not to die, and its based on luck I did many runs without getting anything good, and some runs I got 2 shadow Steel and 1 Sunsilver in one depth I went like WOW. That was easily about 25k to 30k in Crowns right there.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 07:36

#22

Thoranhippo

Just reached depth 25,

Just reached depth 25, nothing so far T_T. Luck depends on people also lolz
EDIT Shadow steel just now.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 07:36

#23

jooozek

Legacy Username

My secret is to avoid those

My secret is to avoid those when i go strictly for materials.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 07:41

#24

Thoranhippo

In the end, got 2 Shadow

In the end, got 2 Shadow steels; beaten by overwhelming lag, as usual. The maps after clockworks are effin laggy, that's really not helping.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 11:35

#25

kbe2k11

Legacy Username

I hate royal jelly runs tbh

I hate royal jelly runs tbh done WAY too many now but I can solo it all so I still tend to do those because of that. I'd love to run T3 I really would but it's impossible to find a pub group that doesn't suck, I mean wow a lot of the people I've seen defiantly BOUGHT their gear because they run around in full T5 yet fail hard at using their shield and counter attacking.

Oh and also before anyone suggest running with friends or join a guild, problem is all my friends and guild mates also seem content on running royal still too, probably because of sour experiences running pubs in T3 themselves.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 13:11

#26

Drunkefox

Legacy Username

the real problem

the real problem here is energy sink the heaven expansion patch was the key for this atrocious CE prises since now huge amounts of energy is spent on crafting (which now every1 has to do since u cant buy 4* or 5* items) the energy flowing out of the game is much greater than the one entering the system, doesnt help that because of this patch many players felt insulted (who wouldnt?) and now refuse to buy any more CE with real cash thus the CE is rising so much....right now the price is 5825 CR...if it reaches 6k then the only profitable runs will be JK or T3 ones limiting any T2 or T1 players to rely on mist energy making this game a P2P officially for any new players that is.

imo this was well schemed by OOO to squeeze money out of us. its just too convenient, it doesnt make sense that they would do this with the excuse that they want to make items rarer... they could have just made the recipes harder to get.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 13:37

#27

spark2510

Legacy Username

all in all

I get the feeling that this is what OOO wanted all along... After new players stop joining because of the energy costs and lack of crafting for higher weps... they'll just shut down and run with the money... Just saying it feels like it's coming...

But.. idk.. I don't have much experience with OOO yet to say... Just throwing this possibility out there.

In any case, I'm not going to buy CE from sellers anymore... I might just end up buying it with cash and just use that for crafting... Mist for traveling floors.
I figure if I just keep my CE to myself and not get involved with sellers, I'll enjoy this game more. Unless the prices drop back to 4.8-5.0 (which i highly doubt they will), I'm not buying ever again. I'm jumping the boycott.

If this keeps up with the limits of CE on our stuff (Next thing you know CE for using XX depths +, or for working the AH). I'm quitting. I adore this combat system and everything that makes it work... but the economy and where it's headed.. just no.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 13:41

#28

Lokr

@spark2510 That's what OOO

@spark2510

That's what OOO wanted in the first place. You getting tired and buying CE. LOL. Nice one. That's why they raised CE cost on crafting after all.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 13:52

#29

spark2510

Legacy Username

@lost4now

Well the title says boycott energy MARKET, we are trying to get the sellers to see a point here... Do I want to quit? no. Do I want OOO to shut down SK? No. I WANT to play this game, it's fun. If I have to pay 5 bucks to get some CE to keep playing something I really like, so be it.

A company trying to make money off a F2P game? GTFO... they may have raised the prices but really, it's still much more satisfying my way then buying from greedy sellers PERIOD.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 14:01

#30

Thoranhippo

No speculations over OOO

No speculations over OOO implication into the market problems recently please. Surely there are many interesting hypotheses, but its not really cool to throw them out, since developpers are doing an excellent job improving the game. Also I do consider being constrained to pay in a F2P game is "the end", but there's nothing evil about it, really. Actually paying only for crafting sounds like a good compromise to me. Well still I wanted to say, haven't yet, I enjoy a lot having people sharing their opinions peacefully here, and thanks for those who decided to join my small contest! You are allowed to suggest that to your friends by the way :p
Have fun! (my daily mist has evaporated ^^)

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 14:23

#31

kbe2k11

Legacy Username

With summer coming and the

With summer coming and the plethora of new games being released I don't see how OOO is gonna stay afloat when there's other f2p games out there that offer SO much more content, that people can play all day long without ever having the urge or need to spend a cent on the game. Kiddies will be out of school and they'll want something they can spend hours on not something where they go on for 5 mins craft and then they're out of energy and cannot afford more, does OOO really think new players are going to shell out money for CE when they get only 5mins to an hour of game play a day, unlikely.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 14:33

#32

BiggestLoser

Legacy Username

speculating :o

just wondering, if elevator fee was set down to the same as energy gates and reviving costed crowns instead of energy, then every1 would have more than 1-2 hours playtime

the prices of CE might go even higher by alot due to all the midgame and endgame players crafting items, which costs alot of CE

however 1 person could play enough for 1 day to get somewhat bored and crafting an end game item would be as hard as its supposed to be

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 14:52

#33

Bigindian

Energy is reaching 6000, it

Energy is reaching 6000, it will match the JK's 7000 eventually, and probably go further since people need CE to craft at least.

I can't wait to see the next episodes.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 15:11

#34

Thoranhippo

That's why CE buyers must do

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 21:06

#35

Sinxeno

Legacy Username

Boycotts don't work

Boycotts don't work, they never have worked, and they never will work.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 22:52

#36

Senshi

Legacy Username

Yeah... uhmn... not likely.

That's why CE buyers must do something consequent to prevent sellers from feeling free to manipulate the market like currently! I read elsewhere that the price raised dramatically again, that calls out for serious actions to end this.
The current price level isn't really the result of manipulation... or rather it is in part, but, really, it's been manipulated as high as it can go already. I see people trying to build up the price, but their bids keep getting torn down again. There's more people trying to build the price up than to press it down, but there are people trying to push both ways.

IMO, the crafting of the new gear to the 4* and 5* levels is requiring a -lot- of CE, and so the price is legitimately up... just, it's also been manipulated up just as high as the market can stand. There are market pressures that push back when you manipulate too far. I think the market manipulators don't seem to realize that they can only push within a range before real market pressures overwhelm them and I think they also don't realize that such manipulations are temporary.

Also I think the Snarbolax run is profitable enough that T1 players are buying CE off of those runs without trouble, whereas before they might have logged off for the night after one or two T1 runs, that's more demand and more crowns fountained, also pushing the price up.

Boycotts don't work, they never have worked, and they never will work.

Quoted For Truth!
(Well, not a -general- truth, but often true and certainly true of an open market of this sort, one with a critical resource for playing the game.)

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 00:42

#37

Thoranhippo

Its still worth trying.

Its still worth trying. Currently the price is at 6k, as I'm posting this. Still can make benefit over these of course, but what's the point? It would take several hours to just afford a 5* recipe with this price, and I don't even mention crafting anything. There's no loss using mist energy only, better cumulate crowns for a while.

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 01:24

#38

Captain-Teemo

Yeah - I'm frustrated with it

Yeah - I'm frustrated with it too.

Basically my gaming in SK went from grinding out ce at an acceptable profit with the market (not selling mats since I'm crafting :\) to now where I pretty much do only mist dives...

With the price up to 6k I am basically just gonna buy my ce straight from OOO as 2.50 is worth way less than 45000 cr... And that is the current exchange rate <_<

Think about it - 5 bucks (1600 ce) and 2 days of mist diving (12000 cr) and I've actually advanced my character...
Compare that to the market where the same ce is costing me 96000 cr (over 2 weeks of mist dives) bringing my advancement to a complete halt.

I'm done - **** those energy sellers. It's not like ce costs very much. They are just being greedy, exploiting a system that makes ce appear more valuable than it is. I am putting ZERO cr into the market now. If I see prices for 100 ce around 4k I'll come back.

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 15:25

#39

Lokr

@ spark2510 Boycott energy

@ spark2510

Boycott energy LOL. I want to see you boycott oxygen. See how that works out for you. The game runs on energy. You either play the game with CE, play it with grind and mist only, or you don't play at all. Two of those options require you to play with CE. ANY CE is someone's CE being sold in the market.

Greed of sellers? LMAO! Everyone looks out for their own.

@ Thoran

Speculation? No. OOO wanted money by raising CE to craft. It should be a truth. Their bull**** excuse of "making 5* items more rare* doesn't fly at all since they already binded for 4* and 5* items. Why would they put in two overlapping solution for the same problem?

Look how well that turn out for the economy! Laughable.

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 16:15

#40

Trouser

The market can only be stable

The market can only be stable if there is a balance between the players who value their cash over the crown equivalent, and those who value their crowns over the cash equivalent. Apparently, the cost of CE has risen enough to push Shosuko from the former group to the latter. It apparently comes with a lot of whinging, but the system is working!

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 22:35

#41

swhiteboy

Legacy Username

You know what makes more

You know what makes more sense?

Buy CE with real $.
Sell CE at the current Crown rate.
Wait for prices to reduce.
Buy CE with Crowns at a profit.

On a side note, economics is more complex than most people realize. I always say, to people outside the field, there is no such thing as "basic" economics.

If we are to consider basic economics here, then the change in CE needed for crafting caused a shock to the market prices. This causes prices rise sharply until they settle at a post-shock equilibrium price. Then two things happen: 1. The higher available profit will cause suppliers to supply more CE, and 2. prices get too high and demand reduces. Both of these work to lower the equilibrium price to a level that is typically above the original price, but below the post-shock price.

If you want to lower the market price, it will be more effective to buy CE with real $ and flood the supply than to boycott the market.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 04:02

#42

Coranho

Legacy Username

My two cents.

CE prices are raising because most people should never sell 100 CE for 5000 or even 6000 crowns, think about it, you can take 100 CE and earn more than that in tier 2, much less tier 3, wouldn't it be better to just do that, yes, yes it would.

I'm not supportive of the higher CE prices, and I am boycotting them, which obviously if enough do they will lower, I'm just stating why it makes sense for sellers to raise prices for anyone with the patience to play their CE or earn a value in crowns as if they played it.

Search

League against the price raises, Boycott market energy