Spiral Knights - Why SK is not P2W

Why SK is not P2W

4 replies [Last post]

Tue, 09/02/2014 - 16:14

Mayaura

Spiral Knights (SK) was designed as a Player-vs-Monster/Enemy game (PvE). Two Player-vs-Player games were shoehorned in as an afterthought, but the mechanics of the game really weren’t meant for PvP game play.

SK is a completely Free-to-Play (F2P) game. Every part of the game and every item in the game can be gotten for free. Player can choose to spend money for additional energy or promotional items, but these items can also be obtained for free through the in-game economy. If you are really into the game and spending real world money on the game brings you more enjoyment, then by all means do it. Three Rings is certainly hoping that will be the case since their business model is based on just that.

Nothing in the game is truly Over Powered (OP) and the game play is challenging without being overwhelmingly difficult. For very good players, even the game can even be too easy. There is no “Win” in SK. You play and have fun and the normal 5* gear is enough to allow you to complete everything in the game.

Some players accuse SK of having become Pay-to-Win (P2W). P2W can be defined as . “a game where players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free.” (Wikipedia) Since the game is cooperative rather than competitive, the concept of an advantage does not exist, except to the limited group of players dedicated to Lockdown. Another definition of P2W from Urban Dictionary is “Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.”

P2W cannot be applied to SK since we are not competing against one another. It’s really rather the reverse. We form parties and guilds to play together. If a player wants to buy the 5* gear right away, it only benefits other players. Even though you can obtain the highest level gear instantly, it certainly does not unbalance the game or give players any significant advantage to do so.

This game is primarily PvE, not PvP, nor is it P2W in any true sense of the term.

Tue, 09/02/2014 - 16:41

Fehzor

Thank you in advance for your patience! <69

As you have mentioned, the term "pay to win" isn't really a concrete term, and can mean a large variety of things. If anything, I think that "pay to win" deserves more of a sliding scale than the yes/no model people tend to give it.

In our case, players cannot just pay and win, nor do players have to pay to win with the addendum of certain content requiring someone somewhere to make a cash purchase for energy or otherwise. The flip side to this being that players who put money into the game receive what is basically power over other players, the environment, the economy... a perceived unfair advantage over others with regards to acquiring the best loot and having the nicest chances. Regardless of how you or I decide to brand the game, this is the basic underlying truth of the matter and it happens to be one that many people don't seem to be comfortable with.

Tue, 09/02/2014 - 16:39

Welux

(ノ・∀・)ノ

I feel like alot of the reason people even label the game as "p2w" is because of the, lets be honest here. The poorly integrated PvP system. While other players greatly enjoy this game mode, i honestly dislike it greatly. I may be hypocritical and a bigot for saying this, (which is hard to not do when you have an opinion) but i find it may be just wasting time in development.

The process of building a weapon to fight npc's and the process or building a weapon to fight other players with is probably a pretty different process that may or may not interfere with each other. Keep in mind, i don't have experience in game creation, but this is just a educated guess i'm making considering the PvP and PvE in this game are pretty different.

But, the game does have some certain advantages on paying. Certainly. You can get things done a bit faster. Players can buy UV's without much grinding since they can just buy energy and punch their weapons. You can buy heat crystals much faster instead of finding them. Buying alchemy orbs, rather than saving up the cr to get them.

But the game certainly is F2P. you have the option to P2P, but the game is certainly not P2W, maybe if this game were some kind of fashionable, competitive, costume maker. But at it's current state, certainly not.

Blitz and Acheron, while they arent exactly OP, i still stand by thinking they need a nerf.

But right now, the main reason people are throwing around that term, is because of the new weapon that comes out of the recent box. The Overcharged Mixmaster. While the game isn't p2w because of it, i feel like people just like to throw around that term alot. But it's certiainly not fair to non paying players. Bare in mind i haven't actually used this gun, but the videos and word of mouth has it seemingly like it's a pretty powerful weapon.

I started like 5 sentences with the word "But" i think that's a writers sin.

Tue, 09/02/2014 - 16:48

Midnight-Dj

Let see here...

Every part of the game and every item in the game can be gotten for free.

Are you sure about that? There are items out there that costs CE for example if you want the WMR and DR from OCH, you need someone to actually buy the CE with IRL money before you can but it for 'free'. In another word, not everything in SK for free, many will still have to thin their wallet to get the enconomy going.

Nothing in the game is truly Over Powered (OP) and the game play is challenging without being overwhelmingly difficult.

Acheron and compound minis says 'Hi', and let's not forget the design of SL, some parts are bascially asking you to burn SoL. There are monsters and bosses in this game that are just down right cheap, there is no challenge in things like these, it is just plain cheap.

P2W cannot be applied to SK since we are not competing against one another.

Yes we are, competing to get the best UVs, to become the the best guild, the best PvP or PvE player, the most presteige earned and fastest level clearance. Just because SK is mostly PvE (at least for me), that doesn't mean ppl compete, competition is in human nature, you will be a fool to say otherwise.

You play and have fun and the normal 5* gear is enough to allow you to complete everything in the game.

Sadly, only a particular sets of gears can get you through the game without making someone rage quit, brandishes, DBB and DR and let's not forget the pulsars. Some gears in SK are just there for the gimmick, not really useful and horribly unbalanced. And let's not forget that heating 5* weapons and gears are end game luxuries for real grinders, people that are here for the fun probably quit a long time ago.

Final message:

It seems in your entire argument you forgot something, it is fact that not everyone play a game with the same goal as you. People play SK for different reasons, some for the fun of it, others however. You can't put everyone in the same bucket, and there are things that are rediculously expensive in SK that otherwise shouldn't have been, radiants and SoL are two prime examples, you want 50 rads that can't even lvl up your 5* weapon once? 700 CE plz, do you want to be revived 10 times while you are ROFLstomped by respawning minis? 200 CE plz.

This month's promotion is a prime example of the beginning of the P2W system, overpowered mixmaster is only the beginning. Buy the boxes all you want, it only encourages OOO to crank out more weapons like the mixer, the ones that need to pay IRL money to acquire. Soon enough your F2P game will be no more.

Tue, 09/02/2014 - 18:13

Seiran

..?

@P2W in the past:
In the past, when the game was more free-form and arcade-based, you really could just pay-pay-pay and in less than a day, be Tier 3 with max levels. In a sense, that was P2W, because it was possible to completely skip out on time investment and "win" your wanted gear and be done with the game. But that was in the past. The game's changed.

@PVP:
I feel like alot of the reason people even label the game as "p2w" is because of the, lets be honest here. The poorly integrated PvP system.

It's just so easy to find 100+ people playing PVP (Lockdown, Blast Network) at once that there are so many people who actually think that it is Pay-to-Win, right? Aside from the rename fads, I can recognize most players in Lockdown without having to add them. The community's that small. And honestly, the biggest "P2W" factor in all the PVP game modes are spark revives, since they can easily turn the game into a war of attrition. In the days of The Jempire, PVP guilds would stock up on CE/sparks and as soon as one person on the other team used a revive, it was like, SHOTS FIRED --> both sides would go all out with revives after death.

But UVs? ASI? There are so many gear combinations to push anybody to have max damage or attack speed that it's hard to believe that people even complain about those as if it's a rich-person-only thing.

@Why I think people are really complaining:

I'm pretty sure that the cranky old players (ex: been around since mist days) are the most annoyed because SK was marketed to us as "100% free to play! No grinding!" But that was in the past. The game's changed. (oh my).

There was a huge stink when OCH came out because it was the first truly gated content (completely inaccessible unless you spent real money), but that was due to a hold-up/misdesign on Three Rings' part with Steam integration. Of course, it's purchasable with Energy now, so nobody complains about it because you -can- earn your way into buying it now.

Mixmaster and any future promos are as "P2W" as Cleavers are.

You can be sure that if people who have gotten lucky with prize boxes stop selling them, they'll end up in the AH or flash sales eventually.

Here's an alternate situation:
If Mixmaster was a rare drop that you could only get from a mewkat spawn on D28 for a 2 week period, would you be as annoyed?

It's an introduction of a rare item into the game that only a few privileged (time) or lucky (drop chance) people can get.
In the same way, promos are a way of introducing rare items into the game that only a few privileged (money) or lucky (prize chance) people can get.

You're just mad because instead of time investment + luck, it's monetary investment + luck.

But it doesn't change the end result of the promo items eventually just becoming some kind of rare collectible in a few months.

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Why SK is not P2W