Forums › English Language Forums › General › Suggestions

Search

Lockdown suggestion: Shield abilities

22 replies [Last post]
Sat, 09/13/2014 - 12:39
Fangel's picture
Fangel

Know what would make Lockdown either more super unbalanced or super fresh and interesting?
Making use of those sprite ability keys.

As of right now, each shield in lockdown does something that directly affects combat. It would be interesting if we got 1-3 unique abilities per shield that don't directly overpower the player but can turn the tide if a battle gets rough. Cooldowns are like sprite cooldowns, and such affect every ability.

Potential ideas:
Striker

    Backing: Striker right now zips in, hits hard, then zips out. Strikers without health trinkets are usually hampered by the lack of health and hard-hitting other players, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have a few abilities.

  • Defense boost
  • Temporarily increases armor defenses by 10%. Lasts for 5 seconds. Plays animation of a remedy capsule and can be canceled halfway through. Has a 25 second cooldown.

  • Reset dodge timer
  • Resets the dodge timer. Plays the /attack animation. 30 second cooldown.

  • CTR Max
  • Temporarily gives player CTR Maximum! for every weapon. Useful for negating the bomb negativity for a short bit. Plays the /point animation. Lasts for 6 seconds. 40 second cooldown.

    Feel free to add more ideas below. I do not play striker too much and thus do not know if these buffs would make the already superpower class more of one.

    Recon

      Backing: Recons are designed to sneak around unseen and attack without being hit. Relying on harder-to-use weapon types (guns/bombs), they debuff their enemies and hit hard without a need for speed.

  • Speed boost
  • Temporarily increases player speed by 10%. Lasts 8 seconds. Plays animation of a remedy capsule and can be canceled halfway through. Has a 28 second cooldown.

  • Death mark summon
  • Instantly deathmarks enemy players within a cloak's pulse radius. Deathmark lasts 3 seconds, or 75% of the time it normally lasts. Plays the /shout animation. Has a 35 second cooldown.

  • Attack speed increase Max
  • Increases all weapon's attack speed to Maximum! Useful for when you need to enter a sword duel. Plays the /point animation. Lasts for 4 seconds. 50 second cooldown.

    Feel free to add more ideas below. I play primarily as a recon and thus I know a few of its disabilities that can be addressed via these means.

    Guardian

      Backing: Guardians are the teamplayers. The tanks. The ones who take the hits for the team. Unfortunately, their slower movements and inability to hide makes them prime targets for all other players, and their prime ability is stupidly weak against damage-boosted tier 3 weapons.

  • Attack boost
  • Temporarily increase player's output damage by 10%. Lasts 7 seconds. Plays animation of a remedy capsule and can be canceled halfway through. Has a 27 second cooldown.

  • Shield overdrive
  • Like a seraphynx aura, all teammates within shield radius (including yourself!) have their shields/class abilities recharge at a fair rate. All enemies who enter the shield overdrive will have their shield abilities drained at the same rate. Only is active if the shield is deployed - but doesn't matter if it breaks. Plays the /attack animation. Lasts for 8 seconds. Has a 40 second cooldown.

  • Double defense
  • Increases all defenses by 50%, and gives increases status resistance of +5 (Maximum! + low) to the player. Plays the /point animation. Status immunity lasts 4 seconds. Double defenses last 8 seconds. Has a 50 second cooldown.

    Feel free to add more ideas below. I play an OK guardian and know a few points of weakness that need to be addressed. People who have played guardian longer than I will probably know a few other things to get into use.

    NOTE: These abilities are not supposed to make the game exponentially easier for veteran players. For the most part, these abilities play off the weakness of a class, but since they are only temporary make sure those weaknesses can still be exploited. As such, the abilities should be like sprite abilities, and you shouldn't be penalized for not using them.

    Sat, 09/13/2014 - 17:05
    #1
    Fe-Tarkus

    -By "backing," do you mean Background Information?
    -How long is the animation for 1st skills if they can be cancelled halfway through? By "cancel" do you mean shield canceling, dodge canceling, or something else?
    -Are the 2nd abilities instant casts? Or how long is the animation?
    -I don't know about the 2nd part of "Shield Overdrive"... it's too much of an attack imo.
    -Isn't "maximum!" +6? Or is it specifically different for statuses and they're 2/3 for some reason... wat
    "the abilities should be like sprite abilities"
    -So they have universal cooldowns like BS abilities?

    In general I don't know about these abilities... it's like you're trying to make LD a temporary superhero fight. I wouldn't play it, too complicated for me.

    Sat, 09/13/2014 - 18:37
    #2
    Holy-Nightmare's picture
    Holy-Nightmare
    or....

    Why not give recon the perfect hide ability

    When it cloaks it shows your knight walking in a random direction and then cloaking (much like how Ghostmanes leave a phantasmal gremlin that runs off when they cloak, even if they don't move)

    This also either creates another pair of footsteps from the ghost or removes them all together.

    Or just make it so that the next hit activates an ability akin to the TF2 Spy's Dead Ringer. (fake kill + heavy damage reduction after)

    (P.s. I had actually thought out some new LD shield ideas today but I guess I'll wait awhile till this ends up on page 2 of the suggestions)

    Sun, 09/14/2014 - 02:22
    #3
    Jungle-Sword's picture
    Jungle-Sword
    naaah

    1. your points 6 and 7 for example, only apply for swords and guns, even though those two classes are also used for BOMBING. and for some strange reason you added a useful thing for bombers at the striker class. LOGIC

    2. too much dmg, for example that a recon can insta deathmark. think about him freezing someone and charging dat acheron with deathmark....OUCH
    I mean strikers ALREADY have lower health

    3. shield overdrive is WAY OP! guard shield: gone! recon cloak: gone!
    recons and guards are EXTREMELY reliable on their shields, what can a recon do without a cloak? or a guard without a shield?

    4. double defense is useless. guards can already just go into a VT or any status bomb with their shields. The shield won't take dmg and it can 't be broken that easily due to the invincible frames which it gets from the status bomb

    5 reset dodge timer: my firts thought. OMG NO! why? simple, strikers can dash so often! totally breaks the 8-second cooldown of the normal dash
    and that would put them into a huge advantage over guards; combo dash out, combo again, dash out

    I know that pretty much leaves the points defense boost and speed boost left, but sry most of them aren't very good

    Sun, 09/14/2014 - 18:28
    #4
    Eltrooper's picture
    Eltrooper
    *Shrug*

    @Jungle-Sword: I wouldn't be feeling too sorry for the striker's low health, especially versus a recon. Most of the strikers that I combat have high amounts of health due to trinkets or high resistance due to UV's and the ones that don't either are very much damaged by my attacks or get KOed swiftly if they aren't fast enough.
    As for the freezing: Many strikers don the Skolver and Snarbolax sets, either partial or full, and have high freeze resistance. If I did freeze them (they don't get frozen much at all except with weapons that do strong freeze such as the Glacius) they may be able to hit me with a gran faust before I can charge a brandish. Chaos strikers may be very vulnerable to the strategy you mentioned though.
    ~Elt

    Mon, 09/15/2014 - 18:54
    #5
    Fangel's picture
    Fangel
    Responses~

    @Fe-Tarkus
    By "backing," do you mean Background Information?
    Sort of. Just my thoughts behind the abilities.

    How long is the animation for 1st skills if they can be cancelled halfway through? By "cancel" do you mean shield canceling, dodge canceling, or something else?
    Any sort of cancel. Shield/dodge come to mind. The power is instant like a remedy capsule though.

    Are the 2nd abilities instant casts? Or how long is the animation?
    Instant casts, yes. Try using the chat command in-game to see how long it would be.

    I don't know about the 2nd part of "Shield Overdrive"... it's too much of an attack imo.
    I view it more as a counter to swarming enemies. It also puts more priority on gunning down guardians instead of roflstomping their shield with a flourish.
    Granted the drain might be a bit much. Perhaps it would passively drain the shield as fast as a recon's cloak does normally?

    Isn't "maximum!" +6? Or is it specifically different for statuses and they're 2/3 for some reason... wat
    On weapons, yes. For armors and helmets, it goes on a scale of Low->Medium->High->Maximum!, so it's a scale of up to +4.

    So they have universal cooldowns like BS abilities?
    Yes. We shouldn't have a guardian be status walking while draining your shield.

    @Holy-Nightmare
    Why not give recon the perfect hide ability
    That's not really something that is activated like a sprite ability, more something the shield could do passively. Feel free to post that suggestion.

    @Jungle-Sword

    1. I'm trying to cover class weaknesses instead of boosting their strengths. Strikers combat weakness is bombs, recons swords, and guardians guns.
    2. So? A recon can just as easily deathmark you after freezing you and unleash an acheron charge. This is more for when your shield is down and you have nothing to defend yourself with.
    3. Recons and Guardians do indeed rely on their shield. Strikers rely on their boost too. As of the current game, when a striker is without a boost, their dodge is their defense. The other two classes don't have that, and if you look at all the skills as a whole, you'll notice that all those defenseless moments are covered.
    4. Guardians can still use this tactic with double defense - they can remain invincible as long as a status bomb is active. However, a Guardian's weakness it its gun penalty. Bombs often call for the use of a gunner to assist in, so if only a guardian is near, they can power up their defense and jump onto the bombs. They will get +7 to all statuses under my suggestion, and it only lasts 4 seconds, so they'll be status walking for long enough to either disable a bomber or be trapped in their bombs.
    5. And strikers don't already have a huge advantage over guardians? No other classes can easily reach the level of overpowered that striker can reach. For other classes, it takes much more prediction and investment into the class, whereas Striker you pick up your sword and health trinkets and go. Besides, a striker can only use the reset/any abilities every 30 seconds if they are only using the dash reset.

    Looking back on stuff a bit now I'm realizing I should have put a different ability on guardians that would compensate for the gun ASD. Maybe the cooldown times would be longer for the recon/guardian stuff too - the striker is supposed to be fast paced and as such should have the shorter cooldown times of the mix.
    Again, any ideas are welcome here. If you can identify any weakness in a class, perhaps that would be something to throw into the mix. I don't address the striker's health penalty directly (I sort of do through defense stuff) so maybe an ability that would passively give the striker health for several seconds with a long cooldown?

    Tue, 09/16/2014 - 10:27
    #6
    Jungle-Sword's picture
    Jungle-Sword
    ...

    'strikers combat weakness is bombs, recons swords and guardians guns'
    uhh the only WEAKNESS is the striker bomb CTI
    guards ASD low on guns is a weakness? .....not a very big one
    neither with the recons, asi low isn't a weakness

    now why did OOO make these classes have these 'weaknesses'?
    well because strikers aren't the 'bomber' types, the can't tank health
    and the other classes only got weaknesses because they 'needed' a weakness to make striker not the only class with a weakness ( i'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure) And then whats the point of having 'weaknesses if you can balance them out with armor AND abilities?
    now lets look at bombers: they are already UP. ANYONE as striker with double penta and acheron can storm into a bomber and beat him up, dealing a lot of dmg before dying
    And guards ALREADY have status res. +2 ( I think). Dutchie for example used this and made a 'everything resistant set' No need for status resistance buff

    ok for point 3 I'll need scenarios again:
    scenario 1
    guard comes in with 2 strikers, go against a group of 3 strikers capping a point. the strikers go ahead and the guard follows almost instantly by dashing in. He uses the ability, and now the 3 strikers are ****ed (sry). the guards PROTECTS his allies AND breaks the strikers boosts. the ally strikers have an easy game.

    scenario 2
    guard comes on a point a point which is being capped by an invisible recon. he dashes in uses the ability and the point is pretty much his as long as the recons doesn't get assistance, due to that the recon can't sneak up on him and only gun him down. BUT the guard has a shield and can tank some shots easily

    Point 2: actually a recon CAN'T add deatmark AND then charge up, maybe only vs a chaos clone

    point 5: yes strikers are OP. why make them even more OP?

    Tue, 09/16/2014 - 11:08
    #7
    Fangel's picture
    Fangel
    Perhaps suggest something to help...?

    'strikers combat weakness is bombs, recons swords and guardians guns'
    uhh the only WEAKNESS is the striker bomb CTI
    guards ASD low on guns is a weakness? .....not a very big one
    neither with the recons, asi low isn't a weakness

    Combat weakness. The weakness doesn't have to be all that big of a weakness to be one. If you have no ASI on your swords, then good luck trying to be the best recon-swordsman. Same for guardian - without nullifying the weakness you can't rely primarily on that weapon type - and this is because each class is centered around two weapon types. Not saying you can't overcome those weaknesses, but that doesn't make them any less of a weakness.

    actually a recon CAN'T add deatmark AND then charge up, maybe only vs a chaos clone
    Recons have a passive +2 CTR to all weapons. With a level 10 acheron you have CTR: VH. I admittedly don't do this as a recon because acheron isn't really how I like to play in PvP.

    And as for your scenarios, scenario 1 sounds like the teamwork this game needs. Remember that the strikers hitting the other strikers protected by the guardian shield will break the shield, and thus the protective measures it gives to both the guardian and their allies is gone. Scenario 2 does sound like a problem, however every recon should have at least one gun on them. They could also be bombing the point, in which case shield overdrive wouldn't be very effective.
    You can throw your own balancing ideas into the mix too. Constructive criticism is welcome as that's what makes a suggestion grow. Perhaps you can suggest something that makes the shield overdrive more fair? Maybe the draining powers are only active once the shield breaks and isn't being hit? That would prevent an overdrive from affecting a bomber on the point when a guardian is going invincible from mist bombs.

    Tue, 09/16/2014 - 11:14
    #8
    Jungle-Sword's picture
    Jungle-Sword
    k ya right

    sry that I always criticize you. I should make my own Ideas. It's just that I want to prevent that OOO would do something that is actually totally useless once you notice how it is used. But you're right. I'm sowwy :3

    Tue, 09/16/2014 - 13:32
    #9
    Fangel's picture
    Fangel
    No, I love the criticism

    When criticism is constructive it's healthy. When it's just "that sounds bad. it's bad. i don't like it" and doesn't say why, that's when it's not healthy.

    But any other ideas for abilities for each class? Maybe cooldown time and skill lifetime revamps?

    Tue, 09/16/2014 - 14:25
    #10
    Holy-Nightmare's picture
    Holy-Nightmare
    I have my own LD ideas and

    I have my own LD ideas and none of them fit into this thread, mine goes in a totally different direction entirely

    Tue, 09/16/2014 - 16:12
    #11
    Autofire's picture
    Autofire
    You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

    This is actually pretty good.

    I should point out though that a lot could be fixed by making max HP increases/decreases be a percentage rather than a fixed number. This would reduce HP trinket's power on Strikers, while it could pad out Guardians with HP trinkies. (As in, one Penta would give a Guardian 9-10 HP while it would give a Striker 3 HP. Recons are neutral and I think fairly balanced.)

    Tue, 09/16/2014 - 16:17
    #12
    Holy-Nightmare's picture
    Holy-Nightmare
    @ Autofire

    Actually recons shouldn't get the neutrality, guardians should, +20 on them would be OP, Strikers would be dying everywhere and recons would have even more trouble with them.

    Give recon an HP trinket penalty but nowhere near as devastating as the striker penalty.

    @ post #2
    I'll never get to post my ideas if I keep bringing this back to the top.

    Tue, 09/16/2014 - 17:32
    #13
    Fangel's picture
    Fangel
    Health is again, more of a passive.

    Adjusting health trinkets is another good fix for lockdown, however it isn't an ability we could activate battle-sprite style. Another possible passive to throw into the mess is adjusting the base defense values, with striker at 70, recons at 100 and guardians at 120. This would help a bit honestly, but if that's the case then we should probably make actual defense of armors scale similarly.

    But as I said, that is more of something that are passives to lockdown. Perhaps Holy-Nightmare could make their lockdown thread about possible "passives" and throw a few ideas around in there?
    (Seriously, nothing's stopping you from making a thread that is for the improvement of a currently unbalanced minigame, especially since it's not going down the same road that this one is taking)

    But perhaps if those health precautions are taken into effect, a striker ability could be a pill dropper, where when you kill a player they will drop a pill on the ground for the appropriate tier instead of a heart? You could replace the dodge reset idea with this. It could work similarly to a seraphynx heart attack, or work completely differently and have the effect be a status inflicted upon players when hit by a striker with the ability active. 30-35 second cooldown and effect lasts for 7 seconds?

    Tue, 09/16/2014 - 18:34
    #14
    Holy-Nightmare's picture
    Holy-Nightmare
    @ Fangel

    Or just allow Battle Sprites into LD with Reworked powers for each class (nerf all sprite shield powers, buff sera HP attack to act like poison/stun, etc)

    Give each player a fully leveled battlesprite outfitted for LD with abilities that change from class to class(strikers take longer to charge and their sheilds last extremely short as do AOE moves such as heart attack, haze, and firestorm) (harness the same as before LD was started)

    Wed, 09/17/2014 - 10:29
    #15
    Fangel's picture
    Fangel
    I've thought about that

    It really only makes sense for certain classes to have certain battle sprites. I mean, we have one for each class right now. Only, that would mean we're given a temporary battle sprite, probably leveled to scale with the tier and with no ultimates and normal damage.

    At the same time, that would allow strikers to have even more health from the sprite perk. I'm not sure about you, but having +18 health as a striker seems like a death warrant for everyone else.

    Wed, 09/17/2014 - 10:34
    #16
    Holy-Nightmare's picture
    Holy-Nightmare
    @ Fangel

    Yeah cutting down the pet perks to a bare minimum would be beneficial (status and type defenses as well as low weapon perks). I do think it would be good to allow each to use their own sprite (for players that aren't familiar with each sprite) and to allow harnesses to allow them to cover holes in their offence (but make them all base level harnesses so that skill cooldown is the same).

    No HP or HIGH perks of any kind. Allow the liquefier perk to be Max though (for rock jellies)

    Wed, 09/17/2014 - 11:04
    #17
    Fangel's picture
    Fangel
    Brings back an old thing of mine

    I'd like family bonuses to be incorporated into lockdown. Maybe a sprite could replace family bonuses with "damage bonus vs striker: medium" and whatnot. Honestly I'd like two families to be for each lockdown shield, but that's another suggestion entirely.

    But remember, some of the things sprites do right now are for other classes. Know what would be unfair? A striker with a seraphynx shield, or a hexing haze. Or a guardian with a shadow cloak.

    If you're going to do battle sprites, we'd either need a new one for lockdown that everyone gets, or limit our current sprites per class. Recon can already cloak, so having a shadow cloak on a recon wouldn't break them as much as it would for others. A guardian can also turn themselves and allies invincible, so having a seraphynx shield wouldn't break them too much. Strikers are already great in close quarters, so a fire barrier wouldn't break them too much.

    If each sprite only had its primary attack, that could be doable, but at that point is it really worth it?
    Also, keep in mind if we can bring our own sprites into lockdown, you would constantly be thrown into tier 3 on accident because you had that sprite equipped. And many people wouldn't be able to play on the same playing field as other people who have battle sprites. The suggestion I've proposed gives abilities to cover weaknesses of the class, but only temporarily and are available to everyone always. Throwing battle sprites into the mix not only directly unbalances things, but it turns lockdown into even more of a grind, because everyone will grab a maskerwraith, and that's a long time investment for an already unbalanced PvP minigame.

    Wed, 09/17/2014 - 13:22
    #18
    Holy-Nightmare's picture
    Holy-Nightmare
    @ Fangel

    Post#14 already made a point of cutting shields for the faster classes as well as their AOE moves

    Wed, 09/17/2014 - 13:32
    #19
    Fangel's picture
    Fangel
    Derp

    Dunno why I didn't comprehend that entirely before. Still doesn't solve the issue of classes honestly.

    Also, a recon with that seraphic aura bug would be the last thing I want for myself.

    Wed, 09/17/2014 - 14:48
    #20
    Holy-Nightmare's picture
    Holy-Nightmare
    SK does need to fix these

    SK does need to fix these bugs, only after they get resolved could this be put in LD

    Wed, 09/17/2014 - 15:08
    #21
    Eltrooper's picture
    Eltrooper
    Which bug?

    I have a Seraphynx that is almost entirely levelled and has an almost fully powered angelic aura.
    What bug do you speak of? The only one I know of is the violent heart attack not doing damage (or something like that).
    ~A bewildered Elt

    Wed, 09/17/2014 - 15:35
    #22
    Fangel's picture
    Fangel
    It's a visual bug.

    When players are off-screen and activate their angelic aura, sometimes the aura visual stays on them for the remainder of the level. The aura isn't active, but the visual is. Now, imagine being a recon and cloaked and having this giant dome of light showcasing where you are at all times because you had to survive a hit or two while retreating. Wouldn't work out too well.

    But again, battle sprites themselves in lockdown could be an entirely different suggestion honestly, or have completely new pets designed for lockdown with no ultimates. That would work, especially if they only had low combat perks.

    Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system