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I don't believe it ever makes sense to craft a non-black kat cowl.

8 replies [Last post]
Sat, 09/27/2014 - 19:33
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Discounting goofballs trying to maximize devense for fun and people that want cool looking costumes, it never makes sense to craft any of the hiss,eye or claw cowls. Except maybe the bomb one, if you're a pure bomber but even then MSI+damage high helps bombers more than CTR low+damage low.

Lets work out all of the possible situations here.

A.) I find a book. This means that I will be receiving a black kat cowl, which is almost objectively an upgrade to the other kat cowls due to the nature of their shared defenses.

B.) I fail to find a book. My options are now:
1.) Craft a 5* black kat item
2.) Purchase a black kat hood

To craft a 5* non-black-kat item as opposed to a 4* black kat one: 3 eternal orbs + 400 radiants + extra fetishes
To craft a 4* black kat item: ~5,000 CE to buy into a fight with margrel + a number of tokens.

Would you rather: Find radiants or pay 5,000 energy? And in the end, which would you rather have? A 4* black kat item or a 5* non-black kat item?

The only reason to do either is to save money on finding+using a book.

Sat, 09/27/2014 - 19:53
#1
Bopp's picture
Bopp
don't understand

I don't understand your argument.

First, BKC has significantly worse status penalties than the other kat cowls. So players who need/want defense and don't have money for Punch may regard the other kat cowls as more practical than BKC. I myself certainly prefer BKC, but it's not objectively better.

Second, the other kat cowls can be acquired much more easily than BKC can. All that you require is 200 Ancient Pages, which is not outrageous.

Third, crafting the 4-star Black Kat Mask requires 1 Wicked Whisker. So even the 4-star version is difficult to get.

There is something to be said for the 3-star Black Kat Hood, which costs only 70 Ancient Pages. I would prefer it to the other 5-star kat cowls, but again that will not be true for everybody.

The only reason to do either is to save money on finding+using a book.

Okay, but you're not talking about a small amount of money there. You're talking about "saving" more money than many players ever have. Do I misunderstand your point?

Sun, 09/28/2014 - 02:09
#2
Krakob's picture
Krakob

I don't really see a point in getting the 4* BKC version. It's pretty dang expensive in comparison to the 3* version, which is essentially as good. The class Kat gear is downright bad, anyway. Regular class gear gets you the same amount of bonuses and no weaknesses.

Sun, 09/28/2014 - 03:26
#3
Mystrian's picture
Mystrian

I don't see the point in crafting black kat cowl. I mean, if you do fine with what you have, then what's the poi- oh right MAX EVERYTHING

Sun, 09/28/2014 - 17:00
#4
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

@Bopp

The kat items are defensive gear, which means that they're really only good for their specific situation. Lets say you're up against anything but ice+shadow or pure shadow. Shadow + fire or shock prefers divine set, while shadow + poison prefers dread skelly. Ice+elemental can be found in nameless, and ice + piercing in ice queen. These are relatively niche armor sets, but by the time you're crafting kat items, you're looking for niche item sets.

Their main competition defensively is dread skelly which they are directly better than on ice levels, and black kat cowl, which they are better than in terms of defense... but the offensive benefits of black kat are considerably better than the defensive benefits of the other kat cowl items. While I suppose that which the better of the two is is subjective, the argument is very strongly in black kat cowl's favor, especially when hits dodged via black kat's MSI bonus are factored in.

My thought was that if you were faced with the decision of which kat item to craft, the most logical thing would be to go for the 3* black kat cowl, and then optionally upgrade it to 4*. The defensive 5* variants would mandate being heated to level 10 (as they are defensive), which is at least comparable to fighting Margrel for the upgrade to 4* at the usual 5,000 CE price. Since it is a 4* item, the heating crystals would be easy to come by and more so needed for the alternative kat cowls anyway.

Sun, 09/28/2014 - 17:26
#5
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@ Fehzor

The only real reason to get any nonblack kat item is for a variance in defense or offense.

Dread Skelly takes the cake when it comes to defensive freeze/shadow armors, we also have the nice Snarby set that trades a smidge of durability for a nice sword boost.

Defensively Snarby beats out Kat claw, when it comes to offensive variance you may want the ASI/DMG rather than mixing Vog and snarby for the mix since pure defenses are better than mixed.

Kat hiss is offensively outmatched by the Mad Bomber set and Chaos cloak, it does however bring shadow defense to the bomber's choices (which was just elemental/normal), of all the sets Hiss may be one of the more desirable.

Kat Eye is ok so far as gunner sets go, it doesn't outdamage Shadowsun and it can't beat Deadshot VS undead (one of the monster families this set defends against). It does bring freeze resist to the current list of shadow/gunner sets but generally should be a very endgame armor to collect.

If theses were made to be crafted with the Kat tribe fetishes and not Whiskers I would be all for getting them but since they use such a rare and hard to obtain material I can't really suggest getting anything other than BK set.

Sun, 09/28/2014 - 18:30
#6
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

You have a few of your facts wrong:

Dread skelly gives the same defenses as the nonblack kat cowls, sans the poison/curse/shock resistances.

Snarbolax has less freeze resistance than does kat cowl, and offers more normal but less shadow defense with the same net total of shadow and normal. Overall, this makes it a bit worse defensively and when fighting ice levels and hardly different when fighting other levels. Black kat cowl also beats out snarbolax on ice+shadow levels, however.

The single stage of attack speed increase is somewhat laughable compared to damage high. Yes, you could use it to optimize but doing so is hardly worth it.

I'm talking about the cowls, and not the raiments.

---------------

Basically, here is what I'm saying for why black kat outclasses all of the other shadow+ice garments almost completely:

All of the other shadow+ice armors are about the same. You're trading 1 smidgeon of resistance for this, poison for a bonus, etc. When you go from something like snarbolax to kat claw cowl you don't change that much, and it's really just goofy min maxing that isn't likely to change anything that hugely. Having sword damage max+sword asi max isn't that huge of a difference from having sword damage max and sword asi ultra.

Then black kat cowl is actually substantially different from them offensively... but still resists ice and shadow, so isn't so different defensively. Think about this situation:

Valkyrie set VS Dread Skelly set on a poison+shadow level. Valkyrie has less shadow defense, and dread skelly has no fiend bonus. Now imagine that valkyrie has damage high and MSI low instead of fiend med, but takes more damage from statuses not found on the level. One of these items suddenly becomes significantly better than the other.

Mon, 09/29/2014 - 07:49
#7
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@ Fehzor

I suppose Kat items (nonblack) are for filling in gaps with your sets.

If you have High undead and VH ASI on say a DA then Mixing Cat Claw with Snarby would be the best choice while BKC would actually be a useless choice if you were heading to an undead populated level.

Dread Skelly and Snarby may have the same defense bars but from what I have heard more often than not is that it is status resist that really matters, DS and Snarb have more variance in that department.

Shadow Freeze monsters aren't as large a threat as other families (silversaps for example) since the largest member of this group is stuck on very few levels (frozen deadnaught) you can just shield to take a hit a free yourself or get an ally to loose you.

This game makes it so that offensive items are far more valuable than defensive items, eventually the only thing that matters in the game is how well you can dodge while fighting, then defense is a non issue.

______________________________________________________________

Any set with a universal damage and weapons boost is overpowered. The closest thing to chaos cloak should have been Mad bomber, and the closest thing to BK (of any kind) are our current damage sets (shadowsun, snarb, skolver, and Volcanic demo since bombastic sucks).

BK set and Chaos shouldn't have been made with such high boosts, it just completely unbalances the game. SK you want your players to make numerous types of armor to fit various situations, you don't want them for craft just one or two sets and then never spend CR/CE on orbs again.

Mon, 09/29/2014 - 12:39
#8
Vohtarak-Forum's picture
Vohtarak-Forum
x

think people who just stop at the 3* black kat hood do it because with penalties that bad, chances are you know what you're doing and dont get hit
that and non status defence really doesn't do much

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