Spiral Knights - Weapon Reforging (EDIT)

Weapon Reforging (EDIT)

15 replies [Last post]

Sat, 10/11/2014 - 09:02

Horseclaw

How many people have purchased the starter pack or gotten a weapon like the... dunno, the Zapper, and found out that it's basically useless beyond the start of the game? A large amount of you, I'll bet. Anyway, what if you could reforge lower star weapons to even more strength?

For example:

I have my Cautery Sword, and for some reason I really don't know, I want it to be more powerful. When it reaches level 10, I can reforge it for a cost in Shining Fire Crystals and 3 Elite Orbs of Alchemy. Upon the reforging (I'm not cruel enough to add a fail chance, that really would be unfair), my Cautery Sword become level 11 and will be able to be forged until level 20. From there, it can no longer gain heat in any way. It will also continue to gain extra strength in stratum 5 and 6, and it will also be, in general, more powerful, and it would count as "4 Star" for Lockdown.

Another example:

I have a Thwack Hammer that I want to upgrade, because I'm too lazy to get a Troika Recipe. When the Thwack Hammer reaches level 10, I can go to the reforging smith and have the thwack hammer increased to level 11, and it would be come "2 Star" for Lockdown. At this level, the potential of the weapon increases, and it gains base power in Stratum 3. I can then heat it to level 20, at which point I can reforge it to level 21, and it is considered "3 Star" for Lockdown, and so on.

Now for a bit more detail on reforging:

Items would require 3 Orbs of Alchemy at the level of star number that the weapon will be "upgraded to". It would also require a varying amount of different Fire Crystals based on the star level it's getting "upgraded to" (Max number of Fire Crystals usable for level 1 - 2 on the correct star, times 3.). The reforging service would be performed by a Gremlin in Emberlight (I need name suggestions, fire 'em away!). This is because it's an end game kind of service. Working on a picture of the Reforging Smith. The reforge prices are listed below. Feel free to comment on these too. (Note that Trinkets cannot, I repeat, cannot be reforged.)
"0 Star to 1 Star": 3 Flawed Orbs of Alchemy and 18 Dim Fire Crystals
"1 Star to 2 Star": 3 Simple Orbs of Alchemy and 9 Warm Fire Crystals
"2 Star to 3 Star": 3 Advanced Orbs of Alchemy and 9 Glowing Fire Crystals
"3 Star to 4 Star": 3 Elite Orbs of Alchemy and 18 Shining Fire Crystals
(Not planned, but under certain conditions it could be added:
"4 Star to 5 Star": 3 Eternal Orbs of Alchemy and 27 Radiant Fire Crystals. "4 Star to 5 Star" isn't intended to be added because 4 star weapons continue to gain strength in Stratum 6 (Error?); however, if that were to be "fixed" (4 Star weapons may be, but are probably not, intended to gain power in Stratum 6) "4 Star to 5 Star" would be added. Also the star increases are in quotes because they only count as "2 Star" and "3 Star" or "4 Star" for Lockdown.)

And now to a very important note. I mean this is extremely important. The unbinding cost of a reforged item DOES NOT change, however, when a reforged item is unbound, it goes back to level 10. It's stats drop back to its normal stats at level ten. Also, if a weapon is reforged, it is automatically bound. This is so you can't buy a weapon off the auction house at level ten, reforge it, and sell it for a profit. Or unbind a reforged weapon, reforge it once and sell it on the auction house.

So, I have now added a lot more detail to this suggestion, and I'm hoping to get more responses other than "This would be OP in LD" and the like.

Sat, 10/11/2014 - 09:12

Mystrian

Yeah, but then every wep in the game would be considered overpowered and "cheating". LD would whine alot.

Sat, 10/11/2014 - 09:56

Horseclaw

Hmm... needs some... grammar...

Every weapon would be considered "OP". Huh. Not my problem, because anyone could get these "OP weapons" with minimal difficulty. And for those who think using those weapons would be "cheating", there are people who consider jumping to dodge on Roblox "noobish" or "cheating". Also, a level 50 Red Saber wouldn't be as powerful as a level 10 Fang of Vog.

Sat, 10/11/2014 - 11:00

Fangel

Nah...

We don't need to increase damage values for weapons any more than we already have.

The only "reforge" mechanic I'd like to see is a heat system one where we would keep heating the same item repeatably to reduce the fire crystal cost slowly.

Sat, 10/11/2014 - 11:28

Whimsicality

It's funny because:

1* gear grows in power until the end of stratum 2
2* gear grows in power until the end of stratum 3
3* gear grows in power until the end of stratum 4
4* gear grows in power until the end of stratum 6
5* gear grows in power until the end of stratum 6

This game is already horribly imbalanced; let's consider other workarounds.

Sat, 10/11/2014 - 11:53

Horseclaw

You know, this game needs Mudkips. And Grammar.

Thought I touched on the imbalance of weapons boosting in strength through stratums, but regardless, I'm only thinking of ways to make lower star weapons that become unusable in later tiers more... usable. I mean, honestly, who doesn't want use their Shocking Edge outside of stratum 3? Sure, a Voltedge would be stronger, but the Shocking Edge could still be used in T3 because of this idea. It appears though, that not a lot of people have my point of view on these forums. I did also have the idea of "taming" minis to use as battle sprites (Grave Scarabs, Dust Bunnies and Glob Drops). But I have a bit more thinking to do before I publish it. Have fun! And use Grammar...

Sat, 10/11/2014 - 12:51

Fangel

Well...

Weapons have star levels that correspond to strata. There are 6 strata, and 6 star levels. Each star level is used to its fullest potential in the strata number after their star number (i.e., 0* is best in stratum 1, 1* in stratum 2, etc.)

What you are suggesting is for weapons to be able to gain damage increases outside their respective strata. Right now, 4* items do this and really shouldn't. We shouldn't be taking a 3* item into tier 3. Gear level exists so there is a progression that isn't permanent to the player so that players can become low "levels" whenever. In other RPGs, players can only get better. In Spiral Knights you have the option to go back, which lets us do interesting things with our knights.

The only thing I'd like to see is for lower star gear to out-perform higher level gear of the same type in tier respective tiers. A fireburst brandish should deal more damage at level 10 than a combuster at level 10 in the correct stratum. It would encourage us to maintain a much larger arsenal.

Sat, 10/11/2014 - 17:06

Horseclaw

Remember kids. Read. It's good for your brain.

It might be worth noting that I said the following: "It won't gain any extra strength in stratum 5, but it will be, in general, more powerful." By this I meant that the weapon in question (In this case a Cautery Sword) will gain more base strength so that it deals more damage, not continue to gain damage in stratum 5 like a 4 Star and 5 Star weapon normally would. And when I say a weapon gains base power at level 11, 21, etc, I mean a fair amount of extra base damage (Example, at level ten, the weapon deals 30 damage, and at level 11, it deals 40. Just theoretical stats.) It's also worth noting that if you want lower star to play LD on T1 or T2, no one plays T1 and T2 LD anymore. Everything in the game is about getting the most powerful gear. And besides, I really just want to be able to use my Chilling Duelist more...

Thu, 10/16/2014 - 02:01

Great-Smasher

Reforging

Maybie this:
When you forging from 10lv to 11lv you will lose all heat levels and gain a (chance to) add new variant (max 3) or (chance to) change existing variant

Example:
I had got "Hot Edge Lv 10" without variant and forged to Lv11, I acquired "Hot Edge Lv 1" with randomly choosen variant.

I had got "Hot Edge Lv 10" with 3 variants and forged to Lv 11, I can change one variant.

Thu, 10/16/2014 - 13:48

Horseclaw

@Great, Check your Spelling, Grammar and Happy-Happyism.

That doesn't make the weapon significantly more powerful. It just allows you to re-roll UVs. The idea was to take less powerful weapons, and increase their base power, or come to think of it, increasing the base damage a little and allowing them to continue to gain power in the next stratum actually makes more sense. Your suggestion allows you to change any UV, and even though heating higher star items is an ordeal, being able to (Possibly) change only ONE UV, regardless if it's the 1st, 2nd or 3rd UV (Try changing the third! It makes it hugely cheaper!), allows you to cheat Punch and the entire UV system. I appreciate your idea, but that could easily be another of Punch's services. I'm trying to find a way to make weaker weapons more usable, (Honestly, what is wrong with being able to buff weapons on the end of their alchemy line that are 4* and below (I don't exclude 4* items because of the absolutely painful Hall of Heroes. I suppose that if the reforging smith was in Emberlight, it wouldn't matter. And we could re-add 4* to the list if 4* items stop gaining power in Stratum 5, but I'm not sure if that will be fixed. I will update the OP accordingly.)?) because it was disappointing to find a lot of the starting weapons to end at 1 or 2 star. On a side note, LD should tell you how many people are waiting to join that are of your Tier, not just everyone who's waiting. I'll get to work with trying to create the reforging smith. Names for him(/her?) anyone?

Thu, 10/16/2014 - 14:46

#10

Vohtarak-Forum

I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

the reason the breakers and 1*s stop at a low level is because OOO wants is to experiment with things as noobs
(the stopping at 4* is just them being annoying as usual)
this completely breaks the point of star ranked gear and balance in general
"will not gain power at lower depths" wont matter if its" overheated" high enough to 1 shot everything

Thu, 10/16/2014 - 16:05

#11

Horseclaw

@ Vohtarak, Seriously, change your name with a name pass!

The reason I stop reforging at 4* is because:
1* gear grows in power until the end of stratum 2
2* gear grows in power until the end of stratum 3
3* gear grows in power until the end of stratum 4
4* gear grows in power until the end of stratum 6
5* gear grows in power until the end of stratum 6

And increasing levels on the weapons doesn't suddenly make them OHKO. I also updated the OP, so I would check that out, as it, more or less, answers some of your concerns.

Thu, 10/16/2014 - 16:28

#12

Fangel

Still not going for it.

In your unbinding area, you say that the weapon goes back to level 10. In our current market, no item can be sold at any level other than level 0. By making "reforged" weapons go to level 10, you essentially open up a new, reforged-only market where players must reforge gear in order to sell it. Unbinding a weapon must set it to level 0.

Now let me let you know another reason why this is just not a great plan with the current layout. Say I have a fireburst brandish. At level 10 I have the option to continue heating it. Now it's technically 4-star with 3-star mechanics. The weapon is sub-par, and not a good way to go about it, especially since you don't need to buy recipes to build your weapon up... In fact, you are wasting your orbs on an item that you could make a higher tier.

Weapons have star levels because that is the area you are supposed to use that weapon. We have various forms of proto guns in the first tier because proto guns/blasters are reliable and easy to use, plus you start the game with one. Same with brandish/calibur-like weapons. You are not supposed to use the chilling duelist outside tier 1... That's why it was included in a starter pack... The gear in there is for players who want to spend money on a pack that gets them a headstart, and just so happen to have unique stats for their mechanics.

Thwack hammers are replaced at 2* with a troika. Duelists with antiguas. Proto guns with blasters... Certain items are stopped at certain levels for a reason... Only two I can't think of a reason for are deconstructer and winmillion.

Thu, 10/16/2014 - 17:45

#13

Klipik-Forum

@Vohtarak just make an alt called that

Another big problem I see here is that T1 weapons are actually, in lots of respects, better than their T3 counterparts if you were to scale them up. For example:

Chilling Duelist: Normal damage Antigua that would probably end up doing equal or greater DPS than AP/Sentenza/Carbine, plus it has freeze and the bullets move faster.

Pummel gun: Has a longer range and faster-moving bullets than all Magnuses, yes including Callahan.

Triguard set: Flipped Normal/Ele defense values from the Magic line (meaning basically the same defense), but has 3-status protection instead of 4. It would be the best elemental defense armor in the game.

Red Saber: Cutter that inflicts fire. IMO better than dmg vs beast and at least equal to poison.

Static Flash/Cold Snap/Firecracker: Status Nitronome, but with better status infliction chance than Mist bombs.

Zapper/Stun Gun/Spitifire: Status Valiance. Just think about that: a shock-inflicting valiance. Do you really think you want that?

Heavy Hatchet: We get an ASI High one from mission rewards. RIP Sudaruska.

I might have missed some, but I think you get the point. There would hardly be a reason to make T3 things anymore.

Fri, 10/17/2014 - 08:16

#14

Vohtarak-Forum

I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

klipik I would but my knight named vohtarak won't let me use it on the forum for some reason

and by one hit killing everything I mean by "overheating" so a weapon is strong enough to do that, did you really not get that or did you just respond wrong to avoid the truth

Tue, 10/21/2014 - 14:51

#15

Horseclaw

No more of this here!

I didn't know that weapons lost all heat when unbound, so, yeah. Anyway, you'd only be able to reforge items at the end of their alchemy lines. And if nobody wants this, I'll move it to the graveyard. And should someone necro this... well, it apparently wouldn't happen.

Cya!

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Weapon Reforging (EDIT)