bro, I think this Is going too far now....

Edit : Putting here so that you'll know what I edited, alright?

...many people in the Baptist community condemmes homosexuality...

There are actually conservatives, liberals, and moderates throughout Baptist communities, just like there are for many other communities. The Westboro Baptist Church almost entirely comprises of the family of a late politician who was (according to the general good of the news) someone who was full of anger and clouded judgement. They are only one community consisting almost entirely of one family of around 20-50~ members. This does not account for thousands of Baptists around the US and the world.

~~~

"Okay, how is that possible? So you are telling me that each sect of the Christian community have their own interpretaion of 'god's words and they each have their own unique connections with God? Each one with its own different account of God's gender, intentions and even skin colour. How can that be? If this god really exist and he is generally a christian god (eg, omnipotent and omnisent), how could he have made a false connection with some of his followers in the first place? Turning them into hindu, muslims, buhddist and the various factions within the christian community? Correct me if I am wrong, failure of following (or simply refuse) the God's true word is going to result in eternal damnation right?"

Yes, a lot of Christian denominations have their own interpretation of God. A lot of individuals have slight differences over a general belief of thought. If the concept of "God/Gods" itself is so varied that cultures from all over have different interpretations of what a god might actually be to them, you, or me, then why do you question variation of belief within sects and denominations? Human history happens. Martin Luther wanted to break off from the Roman Catholic Church when it was corrupted and decided to change its beliefs to his. The Byzantine Church decides to base their Scripture and traditions off of different Apostles (Apostle - Jesus's 12 disciples who would then spread the Christian faith, but doesn't exclude the many others Jesus converted along the way), and so Orthodox and Roman Catholic become denominations. Jesus happened, and now Christianity and Judaism exist. Sunnis, Shiites, Buddhists, Shaolin, Agnostic Atheists, these are all examples of people who have made unique, varying connections with a base foundation of their beliefs, be it a belief in one God, many gods, or no god. Yes, it's possible that people, especially to the individual level, have their own unique connections to not just God, but to the world because they all have different views. And how can this be? It's the human nature to divert from one path if it is undesirable.

Why do so many people divert? Human nature, again. Popes in the medieval era were millionaires who controlled a large percentage of the West European world, which would benefit their survival. Thus, Popes back then wanted to keep that power, and enforced rules and regulations to keep it so. (Until recently, the Bible was in Latin. This may or may not have inadvertently created a language barrier to bar people from reading the Bible without also taking in plenty of dogmas during training as a priest that could not be refused without risk of injury and life at the time). Martin Luther found this a deficit to the people later on and tried to make his own denomination for what he thought would be good. Some people found his beliefs unsatisfactory for them, so they changed it to create Baptist churches, Anglican Churches, etc. Often times, people find their existing community and surroundings beneficial or harmless to them, so change does not happen. Sometimes, the authorities of those communities see that they have lost people because of it was unsatisfactory. Thus, indulgences (that were once staple to the Catholic Church) were banned, among the many other laws over time that people were dissatisfied with.

And no, unfortunately. You're not going to burn in hell (if we even have souls) because that cannot be scientifically proven and established as a fact that will be accepted by you. Well, if there is a fiery, burning hell, then I might burn for a lot of things I might not even view as wrong. According to my denomination, Hell is simply being in a state away from God by denying his offer to do goodwill and otherwise doing everything against what is good. After death, if we have souls, then you may continue existing separately from God to refuse what he is.

That's besides the point, but let me close up.

I don't really care about arguments that God exists or Atheists or right or wrong about God existing, because in the end, we'll never know within our lifetimes. That unknowing opens up the possibility of both right and wrong, and because the existence of an entity (not necessarily living) that predates the universe is a possibility that no one can test out, let alone disprove or prove by reasoning.

What I do care about, though, is how you overgeneralize and belittle, and dance aroud others' beliefs based on ovegeneralizations and your own definition of a phenomenon that has been so thoroughly researched, studied, and explained that there shouldn't be any reason left to belittle others for their beliefs, regardless of how seemingly brain-dead they might be in socializing.

*Tips fedora*

God and Jesus Christ are definitely real.
A preacher was touching people foreheads. He said "In the name of Jesus Christ. Bless this person and and grant the Holy Spirit's gift!" the people the preacher touched started to cry with tears of joy, smiling, and they started praying very loud in a language I could not understand. This normally happens everytime I go to church. #Christian

Yes, of course God and Jesus are real, just like Allah and Muhammad, Santa claus and Jeff the killer, Masterchief and Cortana... so on and so forth. How do you know if the preacher is working for Satan? Have you validated the legitmancy of this church? Since you don't even know what language they are speaking, how do you know if they are possessed by the devil and swearing alligence to hell? This church could be recruiting for Satan without you even knowing it...

Jokes and sarcasms aside, a preacher is far from an evidence for God. And correct me if I am wrong, isn't Holy spirit in all of us? So what the heck is this 'gift' that the preacher is talking about? Shouldnt' we already had this gift by now?

@Oohnorak

Indeed, some christians believes that since god says that marriage is between a woman and a man then it means he hates gays, but God never said that marriage between a man and a man is not okay and he is against it. The only holy scripture that condemmes gay is the leviticus, it is the same scripture that condemmes you for wearing mixed fabircs, so if you are wearing mordern day clothes, then congrates, you are going to hell.

And yes, Church should never be mixed with the government, just imagine, a serial killer goes free after an innocent man came to his stand and sit on the electric chair for him. Or I can rape any girl I want as long as I paid her father 100 silver coins and promise to marry her afterward.

Trust me, I don't want to pick on religious people as much as the next guy. It pains me to trying to correct your statements all the time, and the fact that you are trying to play victim makes me madder than ever.

Oh No, look at Midnight is the big bad Atheist who always pick on the christians.

Everywhere in America (even though I haven't been in America, but here are just some of the things American Athiests have to say), there are churches everywhere, each morning your door is knocked and a represenative of the local church will tell you that you are going to suffer eternally for a crime that you never committed.

Behind every car there are stickers say things such as 'god bless America' or 'America is a christian nation'. Religious lobbies tried to pass up bills that forces the children in school to swear alligeance the first thing they arrive for class. Muslims and other religious factions are deemed terrorist and were prejudiced against and some school even banned the creation of an Atheist group.

Yet everyday I hear christians complain that they are getting picked on by the Athiests, but all I remembered was the fact that you christians accuse us for corrupting the moral of the society. Saying that atheism is the first step to Hitler's third Reich, that without Christianity, the world will fall into chaos, yet I see thousands of civilizations flourished before Jesus and God even came to be: Rome, Greece, Sparta, Ancient China and Mayas. Sure there were alot of blood shed and slavery back then, Christianity have their own dirty little secrets they wished that the world would never know.

"Church should never be mixed with the government." yeah. That would not be a good plan.....

Even if tomorrow God is proven not to exist, will you really start running down the street, guns blazing? Killing everything you see? Of course you won't... google empathy, you don't need to be a christian to have it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

As the gods of past and present gathered on a plain, they saw nothing but a man, sitting below a tree. They asked him, 'who are you?', the man replied, "I am humanity..."

"And whose god are you?" one of the gods asked.

"I created all of you..." the man muttered, "yet I am not a god my self."

"How is that possible?" all of the gods asked at once.

"Well," the man replied, "There was a time in my life, when I didn't have answers for the things happening around me, I was sacred, and 'God' seemed to be a convinient answer, I was satisfied and wish to use this 'god' to control others. God might have been a necessary evil for this world, but humanity is growing up, time to get rid of the childish things..."

And with a gentle wave in air, all the Gods disappared. The man is free now, free to do what he wished with life.

I think I have finally found religion

Sadly there are a lot of stereotype people. But that counts for every religion, And atheism.

...

With or without a god Humanity Is just as bad as olden times. Nothing changed.

Well, to be fair, if you were a Greek living around 100 B.C. and you saw a lightning struck, you would have probably said that it was the work of Zeus. However nodays that just sound silly, we all know how a lightning is created, right?

Sometimes I wonder if I'd be happier if I knew or wanted less.

My life runs on "why not stick around and see what happens", thanks to not having anything to believe in.

The most important question in all of the nature of human existence is this: is being realistic and miserable better than being naive, willfully or naturally, and happy?

But remember, no matter what people say, how many people believe, they can't change the truth. The only God is me, and I'm not helping you unless the problem involves cupcakes.

It is more comforting to have a fake hope in a god than to believe that we have no purpose.

But what is more comforting is that I knew upon the moment I was born into this world, I have choices to make, I can shape my own path regardless of what kind of plan 'God' had instore for me even if he did exist. My fate is in my own hand, I see what I see and feel what I choose to feel, if carving your own path in life isn't the greatest purpose of them all, I don't know what is...

What are your morals? Morals are given to us by how we are raised, we know what not to do by how we grow up. How do we know what is wrong and right when truth itself is relative?

No, there no such a thing as right and wrong in this world, no literal right or wrong anyway. If I was born during the Liberian civil war and was raised as a child soldier, then killing would seem normal to me, you gave me an Ak-47 and I will ask how many people you want me to kill. Although that sounds absurd, it is the Moral I raised with given the cicumstances. Moral can only be defined by the individual, and even then, there are serial killers who were brought up in a christian background, how do you explain that, is it nature or nurture?

Just like the time when Thinslayer tries to convince me that some people in this world, like Hitler, deserves to die. But when I look into Hitler, I didn't see a mad man, I saw a man with the capacity to love, to hate and let's not to mention that his drawing skill is far above average . I think the take home note here is that, even a monster like Hitler can create something beautiful.

What do you tell the man on his deathbed? That there is nothing else, you just end? or that there is the possibility for something better? that your beliefs can remove you from pain and put you in paradise?

No, I will tell him that if death means to not exist, then I and he have been dead for billions of years up until the day when we were born, if for all those years we felt nothing, then what is death to us anyway? Nothing, life is like a train ride, but like all train ride, everything good must come to an end, this is fact that even you have to realize. Paradise or not, this life is all we will ever get.

And what is wrong with an end? I will tell him that one day every atoms in his body will return to mother earth and new lives will be born, each one carries a fragment of his body, to me, he never truely died, everything that once walked this earth is a part of a greater cycle. For every end, there is hope for a new beginning. I feel no regrets or fear of returning my self to the mother earth that once gave life to me, do you?

"No, there no such a thing as right and wrong in this world." there Is a right and wrong.

[25 15 21] 20 12 14 11] 25 15 21] 1 18 5] 20 8 5] 15 14 12 25] 15 14 5] 23 9 20 8] 20 18 21 20 8..] Lol random numbers are fun.

As I mentioned but did not expound upon, humans were created with free will.

This is a heavily debated topic in and out of the church but I personally believe that we can make any choice and much like a river our choices lead us down one stream or another. A being as all-powerful as God knows where all these paths lead and there is no end that puts him in a "lose" situation. But supposing that there is just one path, even then our choices matter, they are no less important.

Artist or not Hitler also killed masses of people just being part of a people group and drove his nation into a war and into a depression. When people remember Hitler's creations they will remember the Ovens and Gas Chambers......... and the millions of lives he ended....

In general good is treating others how you would want to be treated, evil on the other hand is the opposite and it is condemned or put to an end.

What is wrong with an end? You will never see the ones you love, unfinished business, etc. I do not fear death for myself but for those I will leave behind.

"Moral can only be defined by the individual, and even then, there are serial killers who were brought up in a christian background"
And there have been people that have grown up in the "bad neighborhood" that ended up as Christians. /shrug

Lecrae
This is what Lecrae does

Probably the biggest problem with Christians is that a lot of people see them as "holier than thou" people and it really puts off a lot of people. (pffft as if, I can tell you right now most aren't as "holy" as you think) Atheists come across to Christians as aggressive and threatening. I don't really care, I have a very lax attitude about that sort of stuff

If you want to watch a cool video (and you have a long time) check out this: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI

I can't change your mind, only you can do that, but shutting your mind to possibilities isn't really good either.

I don't like it and I'm a Christian.... which is why I pointed it out

Christians are people, we can make horrible mistakes just like everyone else..

No, there no such a thing as right and wrong in this world, no literal right or wrong anyway.

By this logic, all laws are pointless and irrational. If I want to decapitate people for fun once a month, then no one should try to stop me –even if you believe it’s wrong, I’m not truly doing anything wrong. If drowning puppies or gutting birds is how I get my kicks, it’s all good –not doing anything bad. Vandalizing public property –no harm. Breaking into my neighbors home and stealing –not a problem. Forcing myself onto a woman and having my way with her –hey, there is no wrong or right; therefore, I can do whatever I want to gratify myself.

@F-G
Maybe because smiting each and every individual who has the chance of converting into a follower isn't such a good idea?

Yes, you are right, maybe not letting them to be born in the first place is a much better idea. And since God is all knowing, he should know in advance who is going to become a Heretic and abort their souls accordingly. I mean, even if freewill truely exist, the fact that god can be at anywhere anytime inside anything means he should already know exactly what flavour of cake I like to eat, and he should also know that I will be an anthiest.

With that been said, it will also mean that God allowed Hilter to be born into this world and he even anticipated the creation of Oven and the Gas chamber (I am pretty sure those are Himmler's work, but heh, Hitler's lackies aren't worth a damn). I still remember the words carved in the wall of the Auschwitz concentration camp by a nameless Jewish prisoner, he/she did not write words of hatred against Hitler, but instead, the Jewish prisoner wrote this, "When this is over and I am still alive, god is going have to beg me for mercy." I will leave you to savour the meaning behind this one.

@Holy-Nightmare
What is wrong with an end? You will never see the ones you love, unfinished business, etc. I do not fear death for myself but for those I will leave behind.

But what you didn't realize is that death is almost beyond your control: diseases, accidents, catastrophies or just plain bad luck are all around the corner. And before you know it, despite all of your precautions, a pot of falling cacatus was the one who split your skull in half. And since you cannot control your death, then what is the point of worrying about those things? Sure, your loved one will grief but even they have to realize that grief and prayers won't bring you back and soon they will move on and leave you inside their memory, not the memories of how you died, but how you lived.

When people remember Hitler's creations they will remember the Ovens and Gas Chambers......... and the millions of lives he ended....

And let's not forget the fact that Hitler didn't have much control over which kind of religious background he was born in, he never had the control over the fact that he got rejected by the Art school or the fact that his father is an abusive jerk. Maybe he wanted to become a dictator because of how little control he had to his life, maybe he was hell bent on controlling everything as revenge.

And why judge a man by what he has destroyed? What about the good things he has created? Without the holocaust, the Jews will probably never return to Israel and have the place call home, the advancement in weapon technology by the scientists working for Hitler allowed the V-2 rocket to become the first man made object to achieve orbital flight, Me-262 became the first step in the creation of jet air planes (both millitary and domestic). And let's not forget the valuable research of nuclear weapon, after it was used on Japan, the world will never see another great war again.

Sure, Hilter have killed many people (Stalin Kill even more BTW), and I can say the samething about those people that you called heroes too, those Amercian marines that raped innocent women in vietnam, setting Japaness soldiers on fire in the pacific with their flame thrower and massacring Ahfgan children. Last be not least, last year they even forced one of their own comrade, a fellow soldier with Chinese descent to kill himself. So, who is monster now? And what is this Moral you talked about so much? Where was it when your own countrymen are committing these crimes?

"If you truly need a Moral made by some 'God' to keep your self in control and be nice to others, then you truly are a monster with no redeeming quality and should be locked in jail with people just like you..." See? There Is right wrong. And he wasn't talking religion, he was talking about right and wrong.

Also, Mark said that WITHOUT morals that's what would happen. No, you don't need a book, but there ARE morals.

So it is okay for me to blow your head open with a 9mm as well? No right or wrong? Right?

You claimed right and wrong do not exist. If right and wrong do not exist, then everything goes. At this point, there is no black and white --only grey. The only so called guidelines at this point are self-gratification and survival of the fittest. I can shoot you in the head with a 9mm and you can shoot me in the head with a 9mm. If it benefits either one of us in any way, there is no reason not to pull the trigger. If right and wrong do not exist, then you shooting me in the head is the same as you coming to my defense and saving my life from a murderer.

If you truely need a Moral made by some 'god' to keep your self in control and be nice to others, then you truely are a monster with no redeeming quality and should be locked in jail with people just like you...

I am simply saying that if he needs someone or a certain law to keep him from doing those things, then he should be locked up and be isolated from normal people like you and I, who don't tend to do this kind of thing to each other.

Once again, you stated right and wrong do not exist. If this were the case, what would compel me to control myself and be nice to others? My actions would not be wrong, so why would I stop doing those things? Likewise, being nice to others would not be right. If it didn’t benefit me, why would I be nice? Without right and wrong, how would I be a monster? There would be nothing to determine whether my actions were good or evil, normal or abnormal. Thus, without something to gauge an individual’s actions, there would be no need for jails to lock up people since all actions would be 100% equal and legitimate. Actions would not require punishment since they would not be wrong. If all actions and behaviors were equally legitimate, whether you did these types of things to people or not would be irrelevant since partaking in those actions would not be a breach of any moral code or law and, thus, would not be wrong.

See? There Is right and wrong. Whenever you except It or not.

Vohtarak Lol.

The word “punishment” implies that a wrong was committed.

Not necessarily, all I am implying is that if someone did something to harm or pose a threat to be, I will try and eliminate them by putting them in confinement. And since there is no right and wrong, I wouldn't care whether or not someone is or is not a threat, I will simply lock someone for the fun of it (or survival of the fittest, removing competitions). In fact, since there are no right and wrong, then it also means if I want to set up rules and laws and decide what I see is normal and what is not. Soon I can even convince other people to do the same and we can form a government and treat people however we pleased and we get to dictate who should be put away or put down. This is not about crime or wrongdoings, we are just doing whatever we deemed fitting. State of Missouri has death penalty while other states don't, again, no right or wrong... and before you know it, a nation was erected for no specific reason and based on no particular moral.

But what do you mean by “liberty?”

Do you mean the freedom an individual has to think or act in a manner of their own choosing?

Yes, that was what I meant. Since there are no right or wrong, then why would you care for the freewill of others? You can teach them stuff and conform them to your will, kinda like a politician or a president. You don't necessarily have to follow him/her, but even his/her policy sounds good and benifit you, you are always welcome to vote for that politician. Again, there is no 'good' or 'bad' politician here, it is really your own judgement.

You claim right and wrong do not exist, so why debate this hypothetical situation.

The question you are answering doesn't even apply to you, it was made for Galax, since he believes that Moral exist, I am simply asking then which one of those choices are more ethically pleasing for him.

Neither choice would be right. Neither choice would be wrong.

I think that is about the best answer you can give to my question, just a 50/50 pick, flip a coin and what not. Save your own race at the expense of another, again, survival of the fittest, so the second choice might be the most fitting out of the two. I would fall in love with a beauitful alien girl but still that is just my own opinion.

According to you, right and wrong do not exist. How could we judge whether something was right or wrong since right and wrong do not exist?

That is precisely the point, we shouldn't have judged everything based on right and wrong, that is why I am mad at the Christians. Hitler will always be the baddy and even a mere utterance of the good things he had done for the world was always met negative respond. Chinese communist leader Mao Tzedong was a poet, and his poems were decent considering he was brought up on a farm while receiving little to no education. Above all he still managed to scrape up an army and beat a more modernly equiped Chinese nationalist army during the civil war, it must not feel good for the nationalists when they realized that they got beaten by a nameless peasant.

"why I am mad at the Christians. Hitler will always be the baddy and even a mere utterance of the good things he had done for the world was always met negative respond." Either that or you look up to Hitler.

And Good and Bad do exist, whenever you like It or not.

This entire argument was started just because you wanted to rant. Nobody ever said You NEEDED a religion to believe In,"The Big Bang Theory."

"You view is bigoted as ever, I never said ONCE that I looked up to Hitler, while I do hate him for his crimes and atrocities, I also appreciated the good things he left behind (Jet plane, Rocket, Foundation of Israel and UN). Hitler is dead, and there is nothing more you or I could condemme him. And like I said before, even a monster can create something beautiful. I want you and every Christians to know, that Hitler, was once a human being just like you, with his own dreams, hopes and aspirations. Hate him all you want, but at least acknowledge the fact that he was once a fellow human being that walked this earth."

I was just testing you like you did Thinslayer..... Like I said before you assume too much. Yes he did leave behind wonderful things... And yes he was a human being.....

"This theory is still A LOT more plausible than a man who existed out side nature who just happened to create the universe." And you look at science as if it is the only answer. It is not. It can't prove anything. I won't try to make you be religious. I never tried. You assume about them that they are the stereotypes. Well we are not.

"Why would you need to have faith in big bang theory?"

You don't but you still started this argument for no reason.

"Of course, for a christian like you, you much prefer a black and white world where the choices are far more easy to make. Sadly, even you have to realize, that at the end of the day, you won't always have choices that are ethically pleasing to you." OF coarse somebody like YOU would assume I don't know there Is more than black and white. I ALREADY KNOW.

You love to start arguments just because you are truly angry. And you don't deny It. I never typed anything In the Thread,"knights of Christ." That was a threat or
anything against atheists.

You are against religious for no reason because you are mad. It doesn't matter If you are an atheist or not, Its when you argue for no reason and shove your opinions down their throats like others did to you, yet you call them ignorant. Heck, Thinslayer didn't even DO anything at all to start an argument That was all you.

Also It's, "Bible." Not, "Bibble."

Like I said before you assume too much.

In China there is a saying, "A drop of rat turd can ruin a whole pot of good soup." It isn't my fault that I religiously profile christians. It is the radical elements within your religion that are stirring things up and giving off the bad vibe. If you want me and other non christians to see you for who you really are, you either deny any involvement with that radical group or distinguish your self from them, although you, F-G and Holy-nightmare showed me that not all christians are the same. Sometimes stereotypes have to be made, and like I said before I will mention in advance that I was making an assumption, so if my assumption is wrong, you are always welcome to correct it.

OF coarse somebody like YOU would assume I don't know there Is more than black and white. I ALREADY KNOW.

But you are the one who said repeatedly in your previous post, "Hey Midnight, look there is good and bad." So I made the assumption that good and bad is all you ever know. As much as I am glad you know that there is more than black and white, I am afraid I can't say the samething to some other christians.

You can't exist out of nothing. There Is always a reason. And you look at science as if it is the only answer. It is not.

So it is not possible for something to come out of nothing, then where did your god come from? Now before you tell me that 'God is ever-existing', please ask your self this. HOW could a man of infinite power and wisdom simply exist for no reason??? What is god's purpose? He is a smart guy so he should know. And how can he exist due to pure chances? And he himself was never the creation of a greater being?

You are against religious for no reason because you can.

No, I have my reasons and I have said it before. Religion has done its fair share of good and bad on the human history with its irrational glaim of an almighty creator(s), now before we talk about the good, some bad stuff should be also addressed, kind of like judging Hitler if I do say so myself. So if you can claim the good things Religions have done to the world, the please do not forget the bad things religions have done either. And that is my final request...

Whether or not this world still need religion in the 21st century, I will let the people of Earth decide...