Spiral Knights - Your ideal MMO

Your ideal MMO

11 replies [Last post]

Thu, 10/23/2014 - 17:03

Deleted-Knight

I'm the kind of person who like to think about how things can be improved but is too lazy to actually implement the improvements. After playing SK for quite some time, and a few other MMOs, I've started imagining what my "ideal" MMO would be like.

In this thread, describe your ideal MMO. If you don't have time, just submit it and edit your post later (DO NOT make a new post). Over time, we would have a thread comprised of everyone's ideal.
Try to be as specific as possible. For example, don't just say "no grinding" without telling us how it will not be involve grinding, or "no lag" without saying how you would go about achieving that.
Being specific not only help you stay realistic, but it also helps other people picture what your game would look like if developed. Who knows, maybe some aspiring game developer may take ideas from this thread.

Please try not to comment too much on other people's ideas. It helps them stay original. Even if you see a gaping flaw, just ignore it. Cluttering the thread with comments will make it hard to find submissions that are buried in the middle. Let's be creative!

Thu, 10/23/2014 - 19:04

Avihr

guh

should I be honest or not?

better not.

Thu, 10/23/2014 - 23:03

Keepscaite

Opend ended

Opend ended skill-based/equipment-based growth.

I really hate games that lock you into a specific class. If I want to be a healer who uses debuffs, why should anything get in my way?

Another thing that has always interested me is some method to craft your gear's appearance. I know it's absurd, but sometimes I want to wield a bat that does slashing damage.

Also bombs, traps. One of the reason I love SK is because of the bombs.

Fri, 10/24/2014 - 01:26

Midnight-Dj

A good MMO to me is:

-Crap ton of good loot and quality of the loot increases as you get better at the game, this is something SK lack of IMO.

-Balanced weapons and classes (if present), again, something SK failed at (I AM LOOKING AT YOU SHARDBOMBS >:( )

-A healthy playerbase, probably the most important thing, this is the one thing SK didn't fail at.

-Rich lore and backgrounds, but not too rich to a point I can't make a fan fic without someone say, "HEY, THAT BREAKS THE LORE!!!"

-Meaningful grind and reachable end game goals. (Radiants, nuff said)

-Let players have as much control over their progression and gameplay as possible without RNGesus interfarring. (PUNCH, I AM GONNA KILL YOU)

-Variety, some good character creation options are always nice. Costumizable weapons would an icing on the cake.

Fri, 10/24/2014 - 07:28

Iamnoone

It would be a REAL pirate

It would be a REAL pirate world. Not one that is point and click or text based. It wouldn't have any puzzles in it except maybe the corn mazes during the Halloween events. Bejeweled is so over done in those games. Actually there aren't any MMO's online that are truly role paying. Sid Meier came close to good pirate play but was too sexist in some ways.

I would make it much like SK where Haven would be the pirate homeland. Clockworks would be the sea portals taking you into action. I would fill it with captain, crew and wenches gear. Swords galore. There's room for ample customs like hooks for hands and wood for legs or eye patches. Gaia also has a wonderful layout for a game of that type. But I certainly would put much more emphasis on the pirate life and living in the realm than the fight.

I'm am certain it is a void in the game world. I started trying to find an MMO to live the life of a pirate, not just fight Risk game style or fake pirate games playing pirate in disguise while playing puzzles. (Sorry OOO.) I started trying to find one long ago. And again back when Puzzle Pirates first came out. I played PP for awhile. I gave up and went next best thing, knights. That was right about when SK started back in 2011. July 2013 after the update, I went looking again...and again...and again. They isn't one. Someone needs to make my fantasy world/game.

Fri, 10/24/2014 - 15:45

Deleted-Knight

My Thoughts

My ideal MMO will be a third person perspective with real time actions (like SK). However, the camera angle can be changed by the player.

1. No quests/missions/level-path
Players are given a tutorial on how to interact with the world, the different aspects of UI, and then are unleashed to explore (see "Activities"). The MMO would be one single world that expands over time as the developers add content.
Any skills and abilities are hidden so the player has to discover them through trial and error. For example, fighting a lot may increase a player's ability to deal damage. But there is no explicit way for the player to see this. They will just notice they are killing things much faster over time. Players may unlock special abilities, but they must figure out the key/equipment combinations needed to use those abilities.
Similarly, equipment and items won't have specific descriptions. Players have to logically deduce what equipment are better for what situation. They also have to figure out which equipment are better quality than others.

The entire game is then a process of discovery, which will never end if the developers keep adding new content. People play to see if they can figure out all the secrets ad mechanics to the game.

2. Activities
Anything from cooking to fighting, mining to hunting, carpentry to alchemy. Skill levels are not explicitly given. They are hidden values that increase based on player's choice of activities.
The main point of the game is for players to use the virtual world's resources to do stuff. There will be forests, lakes, mountains, caves, and a single NPC town (See "Towns"). Different resources can be obtained in different places. Some may be harder to find than others. NPCs can be found in various places that give hints or tools for creating new things. Some things can only be done if a player's hidden "skill level" is high enough. For example, you can't mine gold until you have mined X amount of silver. This also applies to fighting certain monsters. Monsters that are much tougher than a player cannot be fought because the character is "too scared to fight" it. Those monsters will still attack players though!
Players can create their own equipment or get them as loot or gifts. Alternatively they can buy it for money at the Town, or trade with other players.

3. Death and Loot
Loot is only available to the person who dealt the most damage to the monster/player that was killed. That person can choose to offer unwanted loot to friends/guild (see "Friends, Pacts, Guilds"). Unclaimed loot will disappear after 5 minutes.
When a player dies in PvE, they will be teleported into a labyrinth. All communication with the outside world is cut off and they must find their way out of the labyrinth before a 5 minute timer runs out. If they succeed, they retain all their equipment and respawns at a designated "respawn zone". Otherwise they lose everything they were carrying and everything they had equipped and respawns after the timer runs out.
When a player dies in PvP, the same thing occurs but finishing the labyrinth will do nothing except let them respawn more quickly.

4. PvP and PvE are Simultaneous
Players will have an option to toggle PvP or PvE. Only those in PvP mode can fight each other. People in PvP have special aura to indicate their status. PvP Mode transitions will have a 1 minute buffer to prevent people from taking advantage of fast switching. Players can only log off if they are in PvE mode.
Under this system, PvP can happen anywhere, and most accurately simulates what conflict is like in reality. People can interfere with other people's fights and strong people can be mobbed by lots of weak ones. Players who don't want to fight cannot be easily tricked into doing so.

5. Friends, Pacts, Guilds
Friends: Can share loot (unwanted loot can be offered to a friend automatically), cannot attack each other in PvP mode, can start guilds together.
Pacts: Are temporary and only lasts until you log off. Pacts between people prevent attacking each other while in PvP mode.
Guilds: Five people who are all mutually friends can start a guild (provided everyone agrees ofc). Guilds have all the benefits of friendship plus a dedicated guild chat. Guild members can also help each other perform tasks. A more experience guild member can help a less experienced one do things that exceed their hidden skill value (see "Activities"). Only friends of a guild member can join a guild, and they must be confirmed by one of the guild founders. However, any guild member can extend invites.

6. Towns
There is a single main town located at the center of the world map is called "The Town". The Town contains NPCs that sell goods/services and an "Open Market" that's kind of like the SK auction house (unlike the AH, you can also post buy offers). The Town also offers useful places like a cooking parlor, black smith shop, etc.
There is also a bank where players can deposit items/equipment for safe keeping. This is useful in case of deaths.

A guild can also start their own pseudo-town by building houses (yes, you can build houses if you figure out how) next to each other. If at least ten houses belonging to people in the same guild are next to each other, the guild name will show up on the world map at that location. Houses can only be built in an allocated "real estate" regions of the world. Houses can only be entered by its owner or the owner's guild members. They serve only aesthetic purposes. Houses that has not been entered by the owner for over 6 months are "demolished" by the game.

As the game expands, different "worlds" may be created to allow room for more players.

7. Pets
All monsters can become pets. Players need to use their intuition to figure out how to tame monsters. Obviously some will be much harder to tame than others. Pets will follow the player around and help them in combat. Pets can run away if not treated properly. Players must figure out how to maintain each type of pet. Pets grow more "loyal" over time and experience (less chance of running away). Each player can own only one pet at a time.
Pets are automatically hidden when entering The Town or real estate areas. The owner can visit them in a stable in The Town.
Pets can be attaked in PvP mode and do not respawn! However they can also be stored in the stable indefinitely if you pay the stable manager.

8. Trade
Free market system; there are no bound items. The Open Market (see Towns) serve as an auction style trading spot. Players can place offers to buy or sell certain items. For every transaction, 10% will be paid to the house by the seller. Every posting also costs 1% of the item's base price. The base price of the item is the amount for which NPC vendors will pay for it.
Players can also conduct private trades. Private trade transactions have a flat tax that is shared by both people in the trade.
Most equipment will degrade over time, and players must pay certain NPCs to restore them to original status. If unrestored, the equipment will eventually be "destroyed" if overused. Some items will also degrade over time, even if unused, and must be restored.

9. Game Economy and Development
The game is completely F2P and relies on donations. Players can choose to make one time donations or subscribe for monthly deductions. The website will have a meter that will show how much of the next month's expenses has been covered by donations. If the next month's expenses is not covered, the game will be taken down indefinitely. Extra money from donations will be stored in a "rainy day fund" to pay for salaries in the event that the game does have to shut down.
The IGN of the top 10 biggest donors will be shown on the website.

Every month, the developers will make an announcement saying what sort of stuff they have been working on. The specific updates are not revealed to the player since the whole point of the game is to figure out the secrets. However, the developers will mention what sort of updates (eg. "new regions" or "new monsters").
The developers will conduct an annual poll asking the community what aspect of the game do they want to see expanded the most. Players vote for their choice via donations. The most popular choice will receive the most focus in the next year's development.

I know this model is highly risky for the developers. However, it does insure that the game will only thrive if it has lots of satisfied players. Players who love the game will not let it die. I picture the Dev team as people who had nice professional jobs but wanted to work on a fun project instead. In the event that the project fails, they wouldn't struggle to find another job.

Fri, 10/24/2014 - 16:53

Fangel

(I know you don't want this but hear me out)

What you're asking for is a AAA studio to develop a game with the same passion and work-ability as a single indie developer. That method may work with early beta keys being released for money, but beyond that it would be hard. Infinite development on finite resources is hard to pull off.

You didn't mention graphics in it either. Would you want a bright and flashy game like Wind Waker or Spiral Knights, or something more gritty like Skyrim or Fallout? Depending on choices there it would make the game either unique and standout, or same-old same-old.

Now maybe on topic
Now I'm not super sure what I would want in an MMO honestly. Right now, most MMOs rely more on a lore and some sort of grinding. It sets players apart in terms of time rather than skill.
I have a few ideas for MMOs that would draw me in. For one, doing something new. Most MMOs we see today follow one a few set paths: Camera watches player and player fights things while getting better items or skills (Spiral Knights, MOBAs, Runescape), player is in first person and shoots things to level up (Planetside 2, Elder Scrolls Online), or a game focuses more around socialization than the game aspects(Second Life is the only one that comes to mind to me).

What do I suggest as new then? Overlap some genres. How much fun would it be to have a horror-themed MMO? Making a party of players to investigate various areas filled with jumpscares or other creepy crawlies, and you have to watch your team get mauled if you make a wrong turn. Alien: Isolation or Outlast in an MMO department? Count me in. The less weapons involved the better, and perhaps player levels could be determined by the efficiency of traps, distractions, and visibility.
Or what about something like Spore but an MMO? A creation simulation would be so much fun if you could wander around and see other creatures others have made, stow away in mass on ships that land to mine resources, all that and so much more!
Oh! What about an MMO based around music creation? Something like plink; simple, easy to get into, and strangely addictive!

And in all of these, have no restrictions for low levels/high levels. In my suggestions, I can't think of a linear leveling system, but I think people new to the game should have as hard of a time as someone playing the game for months who doesn't have a solid grasp on the mechanics.

In all honesty, I have really in-depth ideas for single-player or co-op games that I feel could probably sell. MMOs aren't my forte in design from the ground up, however I find myself constantly coming back to them.

Sat, 10/25/2014 - 04:59

Mystrian

Post 2, have you played a game called "Path of Exile"? Thats what came to mind after reading your post.

Wed, 11/12/2014 - 15:35

Cfoureighteen

My ideal MMO is spiral

My ideal MMO is spiral knights being updated.

Thu, 11/13/2014 - 12:02

Sawhero

Ideal MMo

Personally, I want to see something along the lines of the Runescape world, but Spiral Knights style gameplay, with aiming, real-time, etc., etc., etc.

Sat, 11/15/2014 - 22:08

#10

Keepscaite

@Mystrian

I know about Path of Exile. It's pretty close to what I'm looking for actually.

@Deleted-Knight: You should check out Project Gorgon. It has almost everything described in your post, aside from pets.

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 10:20

#11

Doctorspacebar

RNGesus? More like RNGiablo.

Then again, I have some very bad memories of the RNG. Poor, poor [insert Fire Emblem character (that isn't Oswin (Oswin simply can't die (he's just too awesome))) here].

Right, my ideal MMO would:

-Reward patience, whether it be in setting up for the perfect chance to strike with blitz tactics, or in utilizing more defensive options. Run in blindly expecting to steamroll every mob with your giant hammer? You're dead, you big dummy. (Caveat: A "Casual Mode" for when you just finished some kind of work, and would rather not think, but simply wish to go and kill some [REDACTED], is not only acceptable, but encouraged.)

-Have a variety of strategies that complement each other, similar to TF2.

-Not only reward teamwork, but facilitate it with tools such as target marking.

-Reward stealth (if it exists) by adding hidden, randomized twists to encounters, such as enemies or traps, that can be pre-emptively spotted or even neutralized by a sneaky guy going in and scoping the place out.

-Speaking of traps... traps. Make some form of hazard that you don't just beat/shoot the living toilets out of. Whether they're disabled by some kind of Mechanic-esque character or just timed or run through, keep things interesting with traps.

-Which segues nicely into controls. They should be smooth, so you don't have to point the camera at the ground to avoid over-jumping.

-A good story is always, ALWAYS a plus- whether it's a good dramatic story or just flat out hilarious. The TV Tropes article for the page listing "Idiot Plot" in bold-italic lettering is not a good thing, unless said Idiot Plot is played for comedy (well).

-Paid items can include cosmetics, some "convenience" items, and "bail-out-my-party" items, like some form of revival, and there should be some means to get around the cash shop. Levels that you have to buy are controversial at best, especially if you can't get them with a "subscription" payment.

-Expansion packs, if they do exist, shouldn't be uber-pricey (*cough* Burning Crusade *cough*). If you really have that much content, split it the [REDACTED] up so players can spend small amounts of money at a time for smaller bits.

-Please, please, PLEASE do not make one item set/skill tree the "end-all be-all" for any playstyle/class/whatever, because that means all the other item sets/skill trees will get you kicked from groups.

-Guilds/Clans/Whatever should not get substantial gameplay buffs that trivialize all the content (I'm looking at YOU, DDO Guild Airships). Guild PvP, however, is always awesome.

-PvP should take every play style, every skill tree or piece of equipment, every class, every single solitary thing into account. Few things suck more than being the guy who finds out his setup is garbage in PvP the hard way.

-And one of those things is the infamous griefer. If someone's caught griefing in an egregious manner, they should at least lose some in-game money. (It can't be too harsh, though, and must be checked carefully- an entire party can come together to grief a single unfortunate player.)

-Difficult modes should not be difficult primarily through hyperinflated stats. That's just silly. No, difficult modes should instead add additional enemies or enemy skills that force you to come up with new strategies.

(This is actually how I'd like to see Fire Emblem's difficult modes. The stats wouldn't skyrocket as much as the infamous Awakening Lunatic Mode, but... Ballistae and Bolting Wizards by chapter 2? Yep! Enemies don't carry Steel Lances unless they darn well have the Constitution to hold them? Yep! Special damage and combat-triangle reversing weapons as early as Chapter 3? Yep! Pegasus Knights that avoid combat up until they spot a chance to skewer your Cleric? Yep! Bosses with Pass that move a little if they know no one can touch their throne/gate/whatever? Yep! Bosses (or strong enemies) that guard a chokepoint and restrict themselves to said chokepoint? Yep!)

-Finally, the staff. The rule-enforcement folks have to be at or above a Eurydice Awesomeness Index of 0.95, and the developers have to have a good sense of humor and be able to admit a mistake- but at the same time, they can't be pushovers that try to appease the vocal minority of two-year-old children that wants everything to be easy.

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