I decided to do something a bit odd, but I think...that it's really...really functional.

Even if you guys don't like it, it was loads of fun to make. No sarcasm. I am still messing around with it, so no feedback about how the text smooshes into itself, that's gonna be fixed as I go along. Feedback on the general idea please:

Show/hide stats: opinions? Even made the background color feel familiar :3 (armorinfo)

EDIT: got some feedback from flowchart and others! Thanks!

EDIT: text should no longer be smooshy with itself in the name column, as long as people use standard font size for their browsers, anyway.

EDIT: thought - now that we have stats images to compare, I'm going to make a version of the table with 4 defense columns and non-scaled icons.

EDIT: added more flexibility to the ListX templates (status, defense) and added a no-scaling icon option for the new table. Have it so that the icons are the same size, but as long as editors put in the relevant number value after the defense type, it should still sort highest to lowest with a single click - so the icons are all the same size, like several ppl suggested, but the list sorting takes care of some derpyness all on its own.

It does have a few hiccups. Example: divine mantle and dread skelly both sort to the top, but alphabetically. Dread skelly has slightly more shadow than divine, but divine is at the top because alphabet took priority. A fix would be to use more decimals, and that's not very fun...but I can see this sorting as being a source of confusion. An easy fix, but a tedious one. I can get to that later, or someone can suggest a better method :)

EDIT: decimal thing is working. Basically, each pixel = 1. Don't forget to put 03 for 3 pixels, and 13 for 13 pixels, cause the sortlist is sensitive like that. Max is 15 pixels for standard bar, since a full bar is just the next whole number, X.00, and each bar has a width of 16 pixels. Tedious, but actually very easy once we do it...for...all...the...items...

..........................................................................................but pretty good for sorting? heh. As I said before, let's hope they don't change them pixel dimensions. Even if this does happen, the coding should still work with only changes to the plug-n-chug on the page.

I have the coding for the old table, no worries (as does the wiki) so let's see how we feel about the new one. Mouseovers are still relevant, but the new table doesn't depend on them nearly as much. :D

A relevant amusing comic for those who know that I'm a huge fan of show/hide coding.

Added it because ppl wanted <3

And yes, it is snazzy isn't it >:3

Thanks.

And note:

counting pixels ain't all as bad as I thought it might be. Most of them fall into 5 pixels or 13 pixels for 5* defenses.

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

excellent shading and texture, just make it more like a "z" - that looks a lil bit too much like shock IMO.

So, Icytea kindly did a switch for me in the armorlist template.

What it does:

abilities = no
>>>> nothing
abilities = yes
>>>> shows ability image below stats in a show/hide. Hurray!

Why in another show/hide? Feedback says: people like comparing the stats images side-by-side, and larger ability images would get in the way. But now people can compare abilities more easily too, or not, if they don't care about that.

Thoughts?

(I'd rather not have it at all - but a few people suggested it, so yeah).

EDIT: yeah not gonna go with it, that info is in the columns already (unlike the stat bars, this information is really repetitive).

Well, I thought about that, but then I thought - what if they all just change? Probably won't happen. But still, it's best to follow the format of the rest of the wiki:

Each individual thing will get its own stat image, even if they are clones. This is the case with accessory icons, and well, everything. It's a hassle but it's the better way to do it in the face of change...

I thought about tweaking the acc templates to be better, using clones of each other (a single icon for all the polar helm tops etc), but then I thought, ew, what if all the acc get their own icons just like the armor/helm/swords etc. did? Ick. See what I mean? In the meantime we're stuck without a bunch of recolored icons, so to keep things clean I just replaced ALL of them with the acc arsenal icon, which nobody seems to have noticed - and it's a good thing nobody noticed ;P, that was the point :D

EDIT: icytea's been going through making icons, hurray. The #ifexist condition is very nice. Brought up a good point: users/guilds etc. like to use individual icons, so having shortcuts (vs. each item having its own individual image) could break quite a few things.

I had a bit of lazyness with this regarding all the torto shields (all of them are MSD low penalty), but then I thought better of it. You can see this in the rapid edits and uploads regarding these shields.

We think alike on this, but, I don't mind doing the extra work to avoid potential icks in the future. And I'm doing the work, so hey! No worries.

Other fixes include: "Acquisition" instead of "Vendors," "Notes" instead of "Trivia," and other things nobody cares about :D

In the end, the only work for future editors should be adding images to pages, and consistently, through the template.

Well, the length of the names we have to deal with now is ridiculous. I'm going to make the sortable defenses/status/abil columns into cute adorable aesthetically pleasing squares. I'm going to make the icons a little bigger. I'm going to let the name column adjust to whatever the heck screen width users have, which means line breaks for ittybitty screens but a nice looking table for most screens. In short: if you want to browse this on your phone, fine, but you're gonna have to horizontal scroll and the 800px thing is giving me a right headache.

Should look like this for big big screens but with bigger icons soon, and less whitespace in JUST the name column for smaller screens.

General improvement:

changed the plug-n-chug format to pure numbers instead of text. This reduces editor headache as well as invisible data that clogs up page loading time, which is a tad long due to the large number of items in the list. All I needed to do was separate the switches for each defense/status type, instead of having them all in one switch.

I feel like the list is close to being able to be published.

I just have to add in slots for the new handgun-only abils.

Please check over my data. I've gone over it a few times and found an issue with heavy demo, but I could have missed things. :)

Should I put a note at the top of the armor page asking for feedback? like this:

"Hello fellow knights! This page changed this page quite a lot all of a sudden! Wiki Editors made the change - we are voluntary contributors to this wiki, and are players just like you. We would like to hear feedback about this change on LINK TO THIS FORUM THREAD. Do you like it? Do you despise it? Are there bugs? We want to know."

Opinions on the StarToC? Should I put it between each section for easy jumping/comparing navigation? Ignore the aesthetics, just focus on the concept. Changing its colors to look more like sk-wiki is easy.

EDIT:
I had a few minutes and needed a break. So here's a thought for the table:

Regarding new armor/helms: as far as I can tell, these grant only a damage bonus to handguns, not uniform (all offenses) like other abilities do with, say, salamander stuff. So, I propose this sort of icon:

+Handgun Dmg vs. Construct, +Handgun Dmg vs. Gremlin, and so on. Please zoom out in your browser to view them "small size" to get an idea of how that will look in the table. If people like this idea, I'll put more effort into making the icons prettier/better quality etc. after finals (or if you like, you can do it, just name them consistently for wiki uploads).

It's best to keep the icons as close to in-game usage and meaning as possible...hence these designs. A simple combination of existing symbols, with a blue ring indicating a positive effect, usually a buff (pink rings indicate negative - debuff usually). Could easily add an "up arrow" to be more consistent with the game, but also redundant regarding the table.

Another option is to use the simplistic arsenal handgun symbol, like the tooltips do in-game, but then we have less color-association with the perks - notice I'm using the handgun dmg perk, not the other handgun perks, for these icons.

Another option is to directly combine perks, which I will be going with. If there are enough objections/votes for better/other images, simply reupload your new files and wait 500 years for the wiki to update with the new files :) (or change the registered files in the template and upload them to those names).

EDIT:
looking at these icons...hmm. Should the monster symbol be the bigger one, since the handgun symbol is less informative simply because it is the most consistent? *ponders*

I'll be trying a sort of cramming today - because yes, indeed, the sorting is already hurt!

Ability columns 1,2,3 and 4 will instead correspond to uniform abilities, weapon specific abilities, monster specific abilities, and finally, penalties.

I'll update here when (if) I get it to work. And yes it is currently borked.

Edit: having lots of ideas, will edit here with updates again soon!

EDIT:

okay, what do people think of the combined icons?

the mentality is that there are 4 ability types:

1) uniform bonus

2) weapon/gear specific bonus

3) monster bonus

4) penalty

So we can consider, say, BKR to have a single ability, being uniform MSI Low and DMG High. Even though those are two distinct abilities in-game, we can fuse them in the table as a single combo ability, represented by an icon that is a fusion of shapes and colors.

So far, I've generated for review:

Pics:
1) Take a guess!

2) Take a guess!
2.1) alternative if we want to use perks for abils as much as possible.

3) Take a guess!

Take a guess...without looking at filename. To see if they're intuitive. Granted, new players have to learn icons anyway...harrrrumph.

asi+dmg = a red runner guy. runner for msi, red for attack.

handgun asi+dmg = a red quick draw perk icon. Quick Draw for Handgun ASI, red for attack.

In general, the pattern is:
shape, then color - go by top-to-bottom from the tooltip in-game.
EDIT: scratch that, going to try and keep things as consistent as possible...speed will always take primary shape if present, then color of w/e is next is applied. for Bombs, CTR takes shape (which makes sense, since CTR is just attack speed for charge attacks DPS wise), then red color for attack. In other words, red will pretty much always mean that DMG is influenced, with other shapes being as consistent as possible. For triples...below:

What about triple abilities? If they are the same ability type (1,2,3 or 4), then do a simple, recognizable, overarching icon:

Handgun ctr+asi+dmg = a modified arsenal handgun icon. The shape is distinct, and each of its three parts have yellow, blue, and red representing ctr, asi, and attack, respectively. Think like, pretty much all gun UVs = the overall icon. I put the red on the barrel for attack, blue on handle for attack speed (the perfect gun's limit is how fast you click = pull trigger, and yellow on the last bit for charging up. Yellow would work on handle, for sure, but then blue wouldn't make sense anywhere else.

Stuff like Merc Demo is easy, the MSI and Bomb go into different columns!

why fuse? I didn't like inconsistent icon sizes. Since we decided not to scale :P

And making a column for every ability = ridiculously horizontally long table.

Amusingly, this sort of combination behavior is kinda like how arcade floor icons work, so IMO it's very in-sync with the game...not 100% just cause the icons don't exist in-game, but that's why we have the {{wiki image}} tag. I giggle.

Conveniently, we can use these icons for any level of combo (whether they're both low/med/high or have differences like with BKC) - just have the info in the tooltip! We've had this in the table for around...half a month now? Just a friendly reminder that that's how it's working :)

Thoughts? Suggestions? Check out the most recent version of the table on the 5-star page, I've got the triple icon working. And a few on the Armor/3 star page. The rest is still borked, including abil sorting. I can fix, just will take time.

I think I'll add a tiny bit of something to the border of the combo items, to distinguish them more from single abils, like an implied + shape behind it or something. Something small, but noticeable. Something not obnoxious, but obvious.

1) I'd like a general opinion
EDIT: to be clear, I'll only go to #2 if enough ppl like it. Sorry for not being clear before :P

2) I'll finish all possible icons (for every abil in the game to date at least) - and upload them and implement them. Then I want an opinion of how that looks, like the whole impact, and how easy/not easy/meh/great/terrible etc. it is to quickly (or slowly) compare items with these new yet familiar visuals.

I had a thought - but I'm hesitant. In the table, we could have squares = good/buffs, circles = bad/debuffs. This isn't consistent with the game though. Perhaps if we make a statement that is very clear about that in the "About the List" thing I've typed out (these are at the bottom of Armor/# Star pages)? Or hope/suggest to OOO that they make consistent icons...why does a sword orb give all my pewpewswipeboom dmg?! CAUSE! RED SWORD MEANS AGGRESSIVE! RAWR!

EDIT: updated 3rd icon with a better image, patterns remain exactly the same, it just has a nicer border and such.

The name column with the unreadable text and the scrunched together button? That's awful.

I might be able to fix, but I'd need a screenshot of what you're seeing. It could simply be a table wrapping issue for small screens, but yeah, need a visual.

-4 columns. Maybe... a single up arrow column, and a single down arrow column? That makes abilities difficult to sort/find. How about just different icons in the header? That way people can look for what they want (uniform/MSI, weapon, monster, or penalty), and it's not as...bland? (Actually idk why you don't like em, elaboration would be nice :D)...could even do just one column, prolly similar to Bopp's suggestion(s)...would need to test and build. I'll get back to this thread on that later...

Icons in general - I'd like to have a distinguished shape for 1) easier scanning for all players and 2) slightly colorblind people - I suppose that the colors are pretty distinct, I'll have to get feedback from the ones I know. I'd prefer to do the tricolor thing, yes. And not just cause it's easy :P...I'm glad you find them intuitive. Each weapon icon is also divided into three parts, which I find highly amusing and convenient. Though bombs will have one part bland until we...if we ever...get direct ASI abils...for boomboom. Probably the top part? The ticker is attack speed? *ponders*

Thanks for feedback!

@Chesh: That is indeed a wrapping issue. I should be able to lock the size to the longest named item, no problem. If you see nonsense like that, make sure to tell someone, that sort of thing is ugly and easily fixed. This will force people with tinyscreens (phones) to horizontal scroll. Probably. But come on, people should surf a wiki with a "normal" screen, a wiki is information central, not angrybird alley.

Ah, I see! Yes, the sorting is a bit...bleh. I'll allow people to sort if they wish, so they can group things at least minimalistically. So, compressing into two ability columns - penalty and bonus. I know penalties are abilities, but when people look for things, they don't want this sort of data in the same column (and it could be confusing for new players). It would also be hard to combine icons for things like Fallen.

I'm still gonna have these in the triple column positive, single column negative, ability format until I get more feedback though. (uniform, weapon, monster, penalty). It's also just easier for me to work with it this way since the page-coding is already done (by me yes and I'm willing to put in work to change that if people think it's best), so all I have to do is tweak the template for now.

I'll go ahead and make a bunch of icons using tricolor. I'm going to generate a list for these on the wiki. don't look at the upload log. Just look at the icons. Try to predict what they mean before mousing over them to get the tooltip info. If you guess the tooltip, then we know we have pretty darn intuitive icons.

STOP READING GO LOOK AT THE ICONS (assuming I've uploaded them - this will take some time, give it a few days before feeding with feedback please)
-is too lazy to color text to background here so you have to highlight spoilers.

okay now read:

These colors are determined not only by pet perk icon patterns, but also in-game colors...for example, MSI gives your character thrashing orange vapor tails. The runner guy is also orange. Charging up centers a golden-yellow star-like haze in your character. Attack buffs put red rings around your character. The list goes on.
Blue = ASI
Red = DMG
Yellow = CTR
Orange = MSI (to match the orange runner guy in the MSI buff icon). I'll make sure it's as different from red as possible.