Spiral Knights - Surviving a blast bomber

Surviving a blast bomber

22 replies [Last post]

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:06

Holy-Nightmare

Blast bombers are powerful utility knights, but if you don't know the functions of a blast bomb or the person bombing you could end up dead.

The first thing you should do is observe them to see what their bombing intentions are. Blast bombs can be used to create walls, to move enemies around, or just to simply create non monster areas.

Your basic Sword mindset says go after the nearest enemy but when it comes to playing with a bomber the nearest enemy could end up on the other side of the room in a second. So,what do you do? Obviously you go to where the enemy will be, this requires high awareness of the enemies in the room, keep your eyes on whatever walks into the blast range and be prepared to pick it off when it flies back (possibly stunned and served on a silver platter for you and your swords).

Gunners are a bit less affected, opposite of the Sword mindset you want to get closer to your blast bomber. Why? Lets think, gunners are ranged fighters, blast bombers keep enemies at a distance. This works to your advantage and theirs, you protect them from ranged enemies that plague bombers and they keep enemies at a safe range for you.

Bombing with Blast bombers requires a level of skill rarely seen these days. Depending on their playstyle you can either supplement their damage or defense. I can't really comment much since synchronized bombers require a level of communication bordering on telepathic.

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Blast bombs are basically any weapon you can alchemize from the 2 star blast bomb. All of these weapons have a bright flash that can make aiming at things in the blast difficult (as if the knockback didn't do that) and a reliable knockback (away from the center point). Understanding the amount of knockback as well as how enemy placement affects the direction are KEY to playing with a bomber.

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Of course my best advice is to start bombing yourself and learn to do it well.

Edit: Yes they do damage but so do all weapons.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:16

Janeks

you forgot about blast bomb

you forgot about blast bomb most basic function. It does damage.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 18:37

Holy-Nightmare

Damage is a given, all

Damage is a given, all weapons in the game do damage, even the blast of a Haze bomb does damage.

Tue, 11/04/2014 - 10:42

Bopp

singularity of polar coordinates at origin

There is a fundamental mathematical issue with predicting knockback from Blast Bombs and similar weapons: Slight changes in a monster's position can lead to huge changes in where it gets knocked.

For example, if a monster is 1 mm north of the blast, then it gets knocked far to the north. But if the monster is just 2 mm south of that (1 mm south of the blast), then it gets knocked far to the south. And of course the monster is moving while you're trying to predict where it will get knocked.

So, to predict where the monster will go, you need a perfect knowledge of fuse time, along with total awareness of how the monsters are being aggroed and kited. It's quite difficult.

If I were in charge (and generally it's good that I'm not), knockback would be smaller for monsters very close to the blast. This would make predicting the future location of the monster easier. To increase realism and fun, monsters close to the blast would actually be knocked up into the air, before landing not very far from the blast. A monster exactly on the blast would get knocked far into the air and land exactly where it started.

Tue, 11/04/2014 - 12:56

Holy-Nightmare

@ Bopp

Supposing the bomb is (0,0) and the blast pushes enemies away from the center. Enemies will still stay in the quadrant they originally are in (just further from the blast). The only real time to worry is when an enemy is on the bomb or using a speed skill (Kat dash for example). It shouldn't be too difficult to determine where enemies are going to go, after all numerous games rely on players predicting where the enemy will be (every game with shooting in it), blast bomb prediction only takes a quick reconfiguring of an already known instinct.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Polar_graph_pap...

The only real time to have to know the fuse time is if the bomb is offscreen (and by then you probably are out of the knockback range) other than that you can see the fuse tick down.

Knowing your bomber only takes a few seconds, just sit back a bit and watch how they go about fighting, then take a few seconds to determine what enemies you should prioritize while the bomber keeps the attention of others. (ranged enemies are your priority since bombers can more easily handle melee enemies)

Of course if you still can't get it down then just stay away from the bomber if you can (but don't leave them to enemies the can't handle either). If you can't get far enough away then if you feel like the blasts could put you in danger just shield every-time it goes off (you could use this shield to come out of it with a charge attack or just use it as a break between shield canceling sword spam)

Tue, 11/04/2014 - 14:13

Bopp

yes, I know

Yes, I know how knockback gets computed from the position of the enemy relative to the position of the bomb.

My entire post is about the case where the enemy is very near the bomb. This case is inherently unpredictable. And this case occurs fairly often, when the monsters are tracking the bomber.

Yes, the simplest solution is to attack monsters that aren't getting bombed.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 20:15

Own-Deschng

Well just let the bomber

Well just let the bomber clear the way while you wait behind and you dont have to help him
And you fight when he dies. So bascially do not help blast bombers until they die and if they
revive,then just stop fighting and run behind him. Cause i hate blast bombers so just let
them die i rather get spammed by 4 polaris than going with a blast bomber
(Im not saying that blast bombers are bad. Im saying that all the random blast bombers i met was
a defender elite so they just spam those bombs making everything fly everywhere)
so in the end if you met a recruit blast bomber you are dead unless you have high dodging skills
Or if you are the host just kick the blast bomber IF he doesnt want to change gear
And id i play as a bomber i will not use blast bombs. I wouldnt even consider it.
besides there are lots of bombs that are better than blast bombs

Mon, 11/24/2014 - 01:27

Holy-Nightmare

@ Own-deschng

Just because you don't like blast bombers doesn't mean it's alright to let them handle every single enemy in your party's path, if that is what you do then you are a worse player than them, for every person in the party the monster's hp rises as does their flinch resist, by refusing to contribute to the damage output you are a bigger burden on your team than a blast bomber.

Being a good blast bomber or playing with a blast bomber requires more skill than what most players have, if you aren't up to the task of reaching a new of level combat skills then that is fine by me, just remember that regardless of the situation you should try to help out your team in fighting monsters.

Mon, 11/24/2014 - 03:25

Own-Deschng

What im afraid is that i cant

What im afraid is that i cant dogde their blast and for some reason blast bombers kills me everytime
I know there are good blast bombers around and i even have some blast bomber friends
But i die by randoms
Just think of blast bomb as a gun
And think of a new player as a new born baby
Its like you are telling the baby to shoot the gun
And what happened when a baby grabs a gun that has live round in it?
Someone gets killed . Just like recruit blast bombers spam their bombs everywhere
So basically blast bomb are for experts like you holy nightmare but not for a recruit
And i have to admit i am lousy at using blast bombs so i do not use it

Mon, 11/24/2014 - 10:21

Holy-Nightmare

@ own-deschng

Well no one is a pro blast bomber right away, it takes time for players to get good. However, leaving them to the wolvers doesn't help either, rather than just letting them drown under a flurry of enemy attacks try to give them advice and tips on bombing, show them what to do.

Young knights can easily learn how to use swords and gun because everyone else is using them, but nowadays they have few if any blast bomber role models. As such only the truly gifted or insanely stubborn end up as a great blast bomber.

The simplest tip I can give to new bombers is that a good demoman survives on his powers of prediction. Figure out where an enemy will go and put a bomb there, eventually you will reach a point where you can not only predict their natural movements but where they will end up after being bombed.

Mon, 11/24/2014 - 22:15

#10

Own-Deschng

@ holy-nightmare

Or they could use like shard bomb or haze bomb first
Before using blast bomb

Mon, 11/24/2014 - 22:17

#11

Own-Deschng

Unless you can change my mind

Unless you can change my mind that blast bombs are fun
From their view

Mon, 11/24/2014 - 22:24

#12

Almond-Riddle

Honestly, surviving a blast

Honestly, surviving a blast bomber is not that hard. There is, quite literally, a huge circle on the ground telling you what's going to happen.

@Own-Deschng: No to shard bombs, they're even worse. A poorly timed invincitink can render an enemy immune to your attacks.

Mon, 11/24/2014 - 23:17

#13

Own-Deschng

Well at least its better than

Well at least its better than killing your own teammate

Mon, 11/24/2014 - 23:31

#14

Holy-Nightmare

on shards

I would consider shards a team support weapon on par with the Magnus lines, they have great flinch chance to knockback ratio and some deal movement hindering statuses. Shards are fun but for them to totally render enemies helpless you need a full team of them much like Tortoguns or Catalyzers. In standard parties though they can be a bit of an annoyance (they can get behind mortafire shields easily though).

Tue, 11/25/2014 - 00:08

#15

Own-Deschng

Yup Blast bombs are only good

Yup
Blast bombs are only good at solo
Its not team friendly

Tue, 11/25/2014 - 00:24

#16

Holy-Nightmare

@ Own-deschng

Actually blast bombs have a very useful place in teams, bombs allow them to hold the agro of numerous monsters quite easily allowing you to leisurely pick off monsters, the problem starts when players take the monster agro away from the bomber. In this situation the monsters are going after you and now your bomber has to chase you around (since the monsters are targeting you) to have any chance of dealing damage.
Letting a bomber get the first hit on monsters is very helpful, however most players just rush in and then all the monsters agro on them.

That bomber is just straight up denying those mecha knights? Don't go after the mecha knights, go after that mender that is healing them.....

Tue, 11/25/2014 - 01:05

#17

Own-Deschng

Now you are blaming users

Now you are blaming users using swords and guns to change their playstyle why not let the bomber change their own playstyle cause there are obviously more users using guns and sword than blast bomb.so teach blast
bombers how to use blast bomb when they are with a group rather than
Telling other user who uses guns and sword to change their playstyle.

Tue, 11/25/2014 - 01:35

#18

Cross-Over

The problem with telling a bomber to change their playstyle to a flailing teammate is that they only have one type of attack: Laying bombs. Should the teammate have the aggro of all the enemies, like said above, the bomber would have to chase you around and would have a harder time dealing beneficial damage due to their stationary attacks, requiring more precise placement - and again - that's hard when your teammates are throwing them everywhere but near the bomber.

Swordsmen and Gunners have an easier time because:
They don't have detonation times.
They don't have to be entirely precise.
They have (potential) distance attacks while moving.

Blast bombers, in a party with swordsmen and gunners, actually rely on their teammates to assist them in dealing damage, or in other words, changing playstyles (pending).
They can either be the bombers' worst nightmare or greatest haven, in a way.

Out of all the classes when in a group party, to be entirely honest, Bomber is the hardest class to play with.
It requires more complex thinking than swords or guns, because those are just swipe or shoot. Swipe or shoot, kill.
You have to rely on your teammates to push enemies into your blast bombs.
You need to be able to place the bombs accordingly.
You have to rely on your teammates to know where and how to react to an enemy's new position.
You need to be able to react to new enemy positions and predict the timing in which the enemy will be within radius of the new bomb.
You have to rely on your teammates to be able to adapt.
You need to be able to think.

Swordsmen and Gunners in particular:
Find an enemy
Kill the enemy without taking any damage

Tue, 11/25/2014 - 02:12

#19

Own-Deschng

Just askin is the electron

Just askin is the electron vortex recipe tradable?

Tue, 11/25/2014 - 02:21

#20

Cross-Over

Err

No?
No recipe from Sullivan are tradable.

Tue, 11/25/2014 - 02:31

#21

Own-Deschng

:O my friend said he saw

:O my friend said he saw plague needle recipe on auction
Now im confuse

Mon, 12/01/2014 - 22:40

#22

Almond-Riddle

What?

I thought we were talking about blast bombers?

Truthfully speaking, you wanna know how yo survive a Blast Bomber? It's really easy. You see that HUGE FREAKING CIRCLE ON THE GROUND?

I mean seriously! It's like RIGHT THERE. It's LITERALLY TELLING YOU WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN BEFORE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS!

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Surviving a blast bomber