Tell me before I purchase if a recipe requires another weapon/armor
Mar, 10/19/2010 - 05:17
So, maybe I just haven't been understanding the star levels correctly, but a frustration for me thus far has been that I keep spending my crowns on recipes, only to find out after I learn them that I can't make the item until I obtain a lesser version of it.
My instinct was to get by on starter gear and save up for higher level gear, rather than continuously blowing my crowns on mediocre items. I'm more weary of doing it now, but the first 3 times it happened were really frustrating.
Don't get me wrong, I like that recipes require lesser items to make, I just would like it to be completely obvious if/what other weapon/armor I need before I purchase it.
Mar, 10/19/2010 - 06:45
#2
I like the crafting system as
I like the crafting system as it is now. The only part of the recipe I want to know before I buy is whether another sword, helmet, etc. is needed, so I know not to waste my money buying that recipe only to find out it's an upgrade of an item I don't have.
Mar, 10/19/2010 - 08:05
#3
I sorta agree with Shoebox.
I sorta agree with Shoebox. Recipes should be free drops that are rare. At this point it almost seems like buying the item from the shop is cheaper than making the recipe... (I had a friend who had a Brandish recipe and could never get swordstones so he just bought the sword in Haven.)
Part of me also wants the ability to see the entirety of what the recipe requires before you buy it, but I also feel like that would give too much away. /shrug
Mar, 10/19/2010 - 17:32
#4
Rare recipes
I would like to see rare recipes appear in the level vendors and in drops. I think this would increase collaboration between players (Guild members are already crafting items for each other and swapping recipes), and also increase the rewards of dungeoning.
I'd like to see more things that can only be crafted, and more high prices crown items in the shop that can only be bought, to increase the rewards of both those types of dungeon reward (eg materials and crowns).
I'd like to see more things too that only drop, but that drop a bit more commonly, and perhaps randomly in any dungeon. Not necessarily high powered either, but it does make it cool when you see Item X drop (instead of the firebreak armor, or brandish *again* which you already bought or crafted long ago)
I guess overall I'm a big fan of random elements in games - it keeps it fresh, even though you've already killed those wolvers a hundred times over. And everyone I know always checks every level vendor, regardless of whether they already have every recipe - it would be nice to have an 'omfg' moment every now and again when a rare recipe turns up :D
Addressing the suggestion in the OP - I don't think I mind not knowing the ingredients of an item before I buy the recipe, or even the stats of the resulting weapon/armor. As long as the price is commensurate with the awesomeness/star level, I like to have all the options so I'd probably collect them all anyway (that in itself can be a goal of playing - recipe hog!)
Mar, 10/19/2010 - 19:38
#5
I agree completely with
I agree completely with Trowzers. I'd love for recipes to drop, there to be craft only items, recipes that can only be found in a drop, and have purchasable items be more expensive. Basically I prefer if it's far more economical to craft rather than purchase something. I'm fine with 3+ star recipes being expensive too. It helps to give people goals if they need to work their way up. They also have the excitement when something really shiny drops, or something they've been waiting on.
As a side note, I'd like to see recipes only be usable once. Currently once someone knows something, they can create that item for others. This seems a bit odd to me. On the one hand, I like that people can work together. However I think that can also be accomplished by trading/giving recipes. It also opens the door to several scams that could be prevented if people only had to trade the recipe. Perhaps once you learn it you can always see the ingredients, however to create the item you'd need a new recipe.
Mar, 10/19/2010 - 22:28
#6
D:
@OP: Help fill this thread http://forums.spiralknights.com/node/90 and hopefully later you can check the wiki for ingredients without problems.
@Trowzers: I hate random elements like those in games. We already have to get the materials for the recipes, and that's ok becuase they are pretty common if you know who drops them or you can buy the item instead. Making the recipe drop only would involve some really tedious and unnecessary grind if you want some particular item. I don't want this game to be Ragnarok Online, where if you wanted do pvp you needed 10 0.01% drop items in order to not die and do some damage.
@Cake: How is it odd that you don't have to buy a recipe twice to create something?
Mar, 10/19/2010 - 22:47
#7
The way I see it now is that
The way I see it now is that people swap out equipment too quickly.
I mean if you buy energy, you can have 4 and 5 star equips on the first day.
I just don't think that's right, really. It needs to be a lot more of an achievement to get amazing high star gear.
I'm fine with them selling 3 star gear in shops, but when the majority of recipes are 3 stars and below, it becomes a waste of materials to craft things instead of buying them from a shop since you won't hold on to them long enough to use them properly.
There's a serious imbalance that needs fixing.
Mar, 10/19/2010 - 23:23
#8
I was really disappointed
I was really disappointed when they put Mk I alchemers up for sale, in Haven of all places. Before that I was one of a small group of people all trying to craft our own alchemers, getting excited about every cell drop, swapping them around... and now it's twice as easy to get a Mk II than it was before! Everyone has one!
I really think the alchemer series in particular is very well suited to being craft-only(except for the prismatech).
I'm with trowzers in that there should be craft-only, buy-only, and drop-only equipment. And everything else she says ever.
Mié, 10/20/2010 - 01:15
#9
On random drops...
@Pupu
I don't think random elements necessarily have to be grindy - they can make things more fun and extend gameplay if you balance the stats of what drops and what should be more easily available.
I agree you shouldn't have to grind away tediously just in order to survive. It's better if random drops are either cosmetic, allow for specification (ie great shadow protection but crappy everything else), and generally aren't wildly better statistically that more accesible items so the lucky-so-and-so who manages to get one can whip everyone else's butt. Random stuff should always be optional to being able to play the game successfully, but that said, if you really want that [insert cool thing] because you think it looks cool, you should be prepared to spend some time getting it.
That said though, SK is a collaborative game, and it's in everyone's interests that the team survive, so it can be great if a team member has something cool.
Sáb, 10/30/2010 - 19:55
#10
Bump.
I'd like to be able to
Bump.
I'd like to be able to look at a recipe before I buy it.
>A rollover look would kind of ruin the point of recipes.
I don't think it ruins anything. Recipes in this game are a way to create items for less crowns, and some energy, with a chance of having a random bonus at the same time.
Are crafted items better than the normal? Probably.
Are they more expensive, given the energy cost? Probably.
Recipes that cost 100 energy or less should be marked somehow. I don't know -- maybe all zero-star recipes should be 100 or less? (And well documented when you ask the person about the alchemizing booths).
> As a side note, I'd like to see recipes only be usable once. Currently once someone knows something, they can create that item for others. This seems a bit odd to me
I'm just the opposite. I want to see player shops. Places where players can open a shop or stall, register recipes with that shop/stall, buy and sell any of the raw materials needed by the registered recipes, and provide finished products to any player that wants to purchase them.
You know, the first step to a player driven economy? You can get standard items from vendors, or crafted stuff from players. Some might provide all the stuff themselves. Some might provide all but the base items that are upgraded. All would cost energy and player-determined crowns. And you could sell your vendor trash to player merchants instead.
I don't see creating items for others as unusual.
Now, there is a pricing issue here. If a recipe is priced based on personal usage, that's cheap. A recipe being used for others? Should be more expensive. Right now that's what guilds get -- one guild member buys a recipe once, and the whole guild gets it. See below.
I don't like the idea of rare recipes. A recipe is just information. It's knowledge. Maybe if it's valuable it will be expensive.
"But why can't someone teach someone else"? Well, that's easy enough to explain with some technobabble. You see, describing what you need to craft item X is simple, but useless. You don't need instructions for you, so much as you need instructions for the machines. And the only people who know how to do that are the gremlins (who won't help you, but have and use such items themselves), and the strangers, err, vendors who sell you those machine instructions.
Yea, copy protected production software.
This also solves the solo / guild / shop pricing issue. You can buy either a production program that generates "Bind on produce" stuff, that is only for you. Or, you can buy a 10 use non-bound production, for your guild members.
Or, an unrestricted commercial use recipe for your shop.
> removing silly, lower level recipes
I'd say just the opposite. If new players know which recipes can be used on only the 100 mist energy, then they'll use it. The new players will learn that crafting is GOOD. That will give them incentive to purchase better recipes, which will demand purchased energy.
Dom, 10/31/2010 - 04:52
#11
I agree that you should be
I agree that you should be able to see what the requirements on a recipe are before buying it. By not showing it, you're only putting players who don't know about or think to check the wiki at somewhat of a disadvantage. It's also nice to just be able to see what the items you've been gathering are used for so you can better gauge everything's value.
Also, is Firebreaker Armor supposed to require Emberbreaker Armor as is the case for shields? I feel like it really should. As it is, Emberbreaker Armor is quite worthless since it doesn't upgrade like most other armors do.
Dom, 10/31/2010 - 07:23
#12
Seeing the recipe's
Seeing the recipe's ingredients before you buy it in-game is probably just a convenience since the recipes will be on the wiki in full detail (and some already are, at least partly)
A rollover look would kind of ruin the point of recipes.
I think that they should be free, but be rarer to acquire.
That way people who want to obtain items by crafting can do so and gain unique abilities.
Whilst those who would rather buy items from a shop or get them from monsters can do that too, but also be at an equipment disadvantage when it comes to quality.
Not so much a crafter vs. buyer scenario, but rather a more positive incentive to craft.
By removing silly, lower level recipes and adding better, higher star gear to be exclusively craftable, what you create is a simple effort = reward scenario.
People collect recipes at the same rate they will be collecting the materials required to alchemize them, allowing it to become more affordable and taking frustration out of the equation when you spend hard earned money on a recipe you can't make without spending alot more money.
It also puts a limit on the people who would prefer to buy lots of energy then sell it for crowns and get fairly high quality gear from shops.