So I joined a party for FSC because i need some radiant fire crystals.
But when I get there, the leader kicks me with the reason "you don't have blitz needle; you're just gonna give Vana 20% more HP"
Really? What's wrong with vile striker and elemental alchemer?
What if I don't want to get blitz needle?
Then you better learn to like to get one, cause with your current setup, against vana you're pretty much deadweight.
Hey there.
There is nothing wrong with your two items for the entire run up until Vanaduke. However you might get some weird looks from non hipsters due to a vile striker being in your hands and not a Dread venom striker. The 5* just does more damage, but its better than less damage. What i'm trying to say is, the setup is not optimal at all for a complete run boss fight included. Please not that I am not saying don't use the weapons you're using, but if you do you will be playing for a very long time. Most players are heavily impatient in this game.
Not getting a blitz needle means you are going to have to rely on others rather than yourself to get a full run including tokens drop from Vanaduke that can net you up to 30k crowns per 10 runs. Not having this just tells the owner of the party that everyone in it is going to have to pull more weight than usual. Don't take any offense to this though, as you can make your own party where you yourself set the rules. Or just go solo.
Btw, I think the word you were aiming for was Discrimination. Cheers.
I always check to see if they are farming for crystals or planning on facing Vana.
You could also secure a spot by having a Shivermist buster.
I agree:
Having a blitz is really unnecessary in many cases considering you joined a party and not went in solo. You can contribute to the party in various of ways from carrying the water,killing the slags or possibly helping to destroy the mask. Nothing is wrong with your weapons or choice of weapons if you use them 'properly' (as in not die and still achieve a nice dps). If you don't want to get blitz you can always get Plague Needle but that's some what the same(Plague does less dmg and does a nice posion debuff).
I disagree:
As much as it sounds nice it's really just dragging out the run. Most people ether want a fast and clean run or just want to finish the damn thing with out dying. And yes, you just happened to get into a run with those second kind of people. I mainly prefer to call them 'kids' not in mocking them just in terms that they are still new to this wonderful world of vana spamming and can't carry them selfs yet alone another.I, my self, prefer a fast and clean run in a party where every one contributes to the run and as I said a fast one so killing slags around vana that don't really give out any profit is many unnecessary. Focusing vana is a way to go. Considering that you don't have a blitz or don't even want to get one is just wasting my time.(One of the reasons I hardly do open parties).
If you still want to do vana and continue your ways then get in a guild and play with your guildies.
Vanaduke is a poorly designed boss.
Maybe the original intent was that each of the four players will co-operate on extinguishing the fireballs and then whack away with swords, I don't know. But that never happens.
So instead we resort to guns, something that most players consider weak, even more so when most players build their stats primarily towards swords. Having the effective damage gun outclass all the neutral and ineffective damage guns by a large margin clearly doesn't help.
A Hail Driver has great utility in the fight, but when your neutral damage output is far, far behind the incidentally effective weapon choice then it's not really a choice at all.
I love how you all assume that this is a lower-starred knight who's never put hands on an autogun before.
Anyways, for the most part if players kick you for trivial reasons that's because they either are trying to go as fast as possible or don't understand that teamwork is a thing. Too many people play the game like it's a single-player game with other people than they do a multiplayer game with options to do things alone.
Besides, you haven't lived life until you beat vanaduke with the plastic spork method (i.e., defeating him with an argent peacemaker and no useful damage bonus), and done that alone.
if you really want crystals look for a clockwork with the last floor being an arena the boxes give you what you want fsc has very few boxes in it for the amount of monsters you have to fight.
Your party leader was full of crap! You'd give Vana 33% more HP, not 20% for crying out loud!
^FSC is bad for rads.....
4 runs a day.
1 week.
Heat one 5* item.
Or you could do 10x more vana than is healthy, get an OP LD set, and end up with 4k rads and use them to heat all your stuff to make people jealous
(true story)
Anyways, @OP
Nobody wants to carry around some noob with a striker and an alchemer in FSC. The reason is that nobody who farms FSC does it because its fun. They do it because its the most efficient farming level set. And when you are farming, you want to get out of farming as fast as possible. If you dont want to get a blitz needle, get a strike needle.
My example of vana farming like crazy: I alt farmed vana for a month. It would have taken about 1.3-1.5x longer i estimate, if i carried some striker alchemer noob around.
Point is, you need a blitz at the very least to do vana with most people. If you want to have weapons that dont make vana easier for everyone, ask someone specifically to carry you, or youll be wasting 15-20 minutes at the boss doing barely any damage with the alchemer.
To give you some approximated values:
Alchemer: 300 dps against vana
Blitz needle: 1240 dps (max dmg, max ctr, divided by 3.5 seconds charging, firing, and reloading)
TL;DR
Get blitz. If not, get a strike needle. Or do solo vana in 90 minutes with your current stuff.
Also, in general, I totally support disrcimination against Polaris users. Serves them right for using such a poorly designed weapon....
Vana party -> sees polaris -> SEEYA
I'm actually playing the game twice over with my alt account. I've done Vana so many times with Blitz on my main account it's become too fast and tedious, like a routine. So when I decided to break that routine (by trying to beat the game by creating only green weapons) a lot of people said, "that's not the right way." But it's made the game that more challenging and interesting.
Imagine if we went back to the old Vana days were Divine Avenger and Peacemaker were the priority guns. Back then people thought bringing or even making Blitz needle was a ludicrous idea.
I know time equals money, but once the game becomes "farm work" and stops being fun, what's the point?
I'm just trying to maximize myself and the game, and bringing Blitz is just too easy.
On the one hand, party leaders should be prepared to carry their group through the encounter - and if they're playing in a random group, they should be prepared to accommodate sub-optimal loadouts from time to time. It's a pub - you aren't going to see perfect results all the time.
On the other hand, rookie players should be prepared to learn from more experienced veterans - and that includes shaping their future loadouts so they can make a more positive impact on the party. Having the right equipment for the right situations will make a huge difference.
People don't bring Blitz Needles and Shivermist Busters to Vana because they're pretty - they bring them because they make the fight dramatically faster and smoother. If you're piddling along with a striker and an alchemer, then bluntly speaking you aren't contributing much. Your damage is bad, your utility is bad, and you shouldn't be OK with that. Get better stuff, have better runs. Simple as that.
If you can make your gear work without being a liability to the team, then go for it. This is a player who has played through the game to its entirety and is now attempting to play the game with a challenging mindset. If you're holding a striker and running into death then yeah, sure, others can be disappointed in you. If you're holding a striker and holding your own in firestorm citadel, then the other members should just work into that. One of my firestorm citadel loadouts I use has a DVS thrown into it and I try my best to use it as a primary, even though I carry a brandish in my fourth slot. Why? Because I have more fun like that.
You don't want to bring blitz and shivermist to vana? Then get your butt to that water tab and start watering!
Your loadout is actually, in my opinion, pretty fantastic for anything in FSC except (ironically) Vana himself.
When you say elemental Alchemer, do you mean Nova, or one of the status ones?
I don't really discriminate when I run FSC, as I usually skip Vanaduke because I'm not very confident in my skills to be able to defeat Vanaduke.
That being said, everyone is welcome in my runs.
Shivermist and Blitz not required, I can carry you guys if you'd like, just be warned I can get a bit spicy at times.
To be entirely fair, one of the things I dislike about firestorm citadel is how my team tends to evaporate on occasion as we near the boss- it's a long run, and people have places to be, don't plan to fight the boss, have to AFK and make it longer, just leave for no real reason, you know. If Vanaduke was a non trivial fight for me (and it isn't a cakewalk for a lot of players), then I would want to guarantee my success as best I could without having to beg all my friends to come help me save my run as I near the end of D27. This means making tough calls, and kicking people that aren't going to contribute much to the boss fight- the party doesn't need a water boy, and any more than one water boy is just dead weight.
I would just expect this stuff if I was running in pugs. Vanaduke is a lot more fun without blitz but most of the people I've run into in FSC pugs are just farming it.
I'm defender elite now, but I have done Vana several times (on elite), always with friends or guildmates. Sometimes with vanguards who didn't mind to carry me through it, sometimes with people just slightly stronger than me, and a single time with 3 defender elites (including myself), what cost some sparks, but it still was fun. The point is that if you want a party that will accept you regardless of whether you have BN/SB or not, is going with friends. Random people will probably kick you most of the time, even with a blitz.
Hinotan, I know how you feel there.
I've been in numerous parties in which I was kicked from or everyone left because I didn't apparently have a Blitz Needle, which is REALLY ironic, considering I always inspect the people I join in on, and their gear made me want to cry prior to being kicked. I don't see the whole hype for the weapon, anyway. Yeah, it's excellent for crowd control and rapid damage (assuming if all the needles hit your mark[s]), but sometimes, one fatal mistake will bring about your demise, and this goes for all Autogun-line weapons. It's why I'm not a fan of using them, except on rare occasions when they are needed.
Even so, I personally prefer the Blight Needle my boyfriend gave to me. It's level 10, a nice unique variant of ASI medium, and it poisons things; great for Vanaduke and other enemies! To me, this is far better than a Blitz Needle, especially when I one day upgrade it to a Plague Needle. Funny thing is, I've had people kick me even though I brought it with me. All because it didn't have the glorious golden shine the Blitz itself has; how cute.
I use a level 5 Nova Driver and people give me funny looks all the time, despite how effective is it there, especially against the Red Rovers and Slag Walkers. Even the enemies that take neutral damage from it, like the slimes or trojans, can still be taken down fairly quickly with it.
I used to run with only an AP and obsidian carbine
nothing else
the amount of autokicks I got is higher than all the useless shining fire crystals I've ever owned
now I bring a blitz and hammer, no one questions
(but the autokicks will return with my soon to be made callahan, muahahahohwait)
That moment when you bring a suicide loadout to a random party (ash tail set + bbts + CIV + WRH w/snarby as costume EVEN WITH FULL INSPECT ON)...
...and they still kick the dude with the Plague Needle...or the DVS...or the guy with Polaris...everyone but...you. Because they think you're ballsy.
People are starting to make sense, at least!
^ XD
People usually get caught up on the fact that I'm a Recruit wearing Heavenly Iron Armor and toting a Sudaruska/Voltaic Tempest, so they leave me in the party to figure out WTF's going on. (to the point where I've earned the nickname Hax-Chan/Mr-Hax)
In my FSC parties I allow at most 1 person to not have a Blitz. Unless that person has a shiv, in which case I allow up to 2 people lacking Blitz. As long as there's at least 2 people free to attack Vanaduke with Blitz then I'm happy!
Consider allowing 1 person without Blitz in your FSC parties, because it does take time to get that weapon and we were all newbies once...
My alt gets kicked for it's gear but in reality I could carry 3 Defender Elites.
For some that Is.....
But yeah, I hate discrimination.
Once I was in a party. Someone thought he was better than the rest of the party because he only died once, and that everyone else died more than him. And then called me a terrible player(he said the words worse than that though.)......
I might end up leaving if these snotty players keep popping up....
he snobbish players are usually defender elites/newly vanguards who think they know everything
I've been kicked 3 times from arcade runs yesterday because I was HEATING a 3* magnus
really kicking people who are heating, just how dumb do you have to be?
Too bad the internet encourage people to think they are better than others.
Welcome to 2014.
I never discriminate, although I may be personally ticked at users with specific weapons that require me to change playstyle.
Looking at you, Voh, you spammed Polaris (Or was it Supernova?) a lot back then :D
@OP
As said plenty before, your loadout is great for everything but Vanaduke (Rather ironic) - and most players - Vanguards especially - are there to farm in the shortest amount of time possible, which is why they use a Blitz.
I recall a moment in time using all Spiral Order Weapons (i.e. Leviathan Blade, Valiance, etc.) and being kicked during loading while trying to get into a random arcade run with no bosses, only to see the message after loading in my own party: "Thse weapons suck u noob"
My arse. Give a chance, hell, even half a chance, and let their potential shine.
Weapons that are being used that aren't appropriate for a boss during a speedrun / farming...
I could understand a little bit, but that still shouldn't be an excuse to kick. Everybody can be an arse in their own way, though. The worst, imo, are people who think they know everything that think of themselves as superior; "No, u cn only defet Roarmoolus Twins with Crstal Shards stoopid, rev me or I kick" - Deceased Knight of the Ironclaw Munitions Factory, 2014 - I leave them to die if they're that ignorant, and I'm using that term lightly.
With the only thing lacking from my Vana token reward items being a single helm, I'm kind of sick of the place. I consider Vana more of an event kind of level, if I feel like going then I'll do it but other than that I'll be grinding out clockworks or some graveyard.
Welcome to 2014
This has been going on for much longer than just the past year.
True, but it seems much more noticable this year than any other year whilst "reasonable" players have begun leaving the game, the water in the sponge leaving all that grime behind with whatever small bits of water is left - us - to deal with.
During SK's early years, I reckon, the sponge was still wet.
During SK's early years, I reckon, the sponge was still wet.
Best. Innuendo. Ever.
"Best. Innuendo. Ever." That wasn't intended to be an innuendo.
Today I put some time into the ol' firestorm citadel. None of my runs went smoothly. In other words, we didn't just go in, spend half an hour, beat the boss, win, leave... in every case, someone DC'd, left, we had to branch off because the party leader was a jerk, multiple party members died during the boss fight and lay there for half a minute deciding if it was worth the spark, you know. This is typical of the run.
This is what I was talking about in post number 18 above- http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/106228#comment-961054
How almost every MMO works:
so, those who don't have key items to beat ___, the exp. player think new players don't deserve a spot in the run.
I think over 4 years people have figured out the best way to run through stages in a timely way, yes. But it limits the options for other weapons and classes.
Ever see a nitro bomber, Cata only guns, or super sudaruska search and slammer squad runs? Fuggetaboutit.
Those are funner ways to play the game instead of brandish and blitzing everything.
@Paintool
Well, I know exactly how to spend my next Arcade run. Whenever I bother coming back to the game, anyways.
@Paintool
I don't believe the players in question are trying novel strategies. Rather, they're just poor at the game and are using what they've made, which is usually not even something unique or cool, but a half heated brandish or leviathan blade, and you know that they're not going to go very far. A significant number of these people seem to end up dead before the first floor is over with.
If someone like you came to my party wielding a catalyzer, most gear fully heated, horse head rank, a thought out costume, unique variants and the works, I don't think I'd kick them. I don't think most people would, because you clearly know what you're doing, and if you want to use neutralizer then maybe I'll join you because often times I would agree with your sentiments. It's fun to try out novel strategies. That's why I think that the developers should allow us to get more radiant fire crystals in a timely manner, so that those newer players can mature past using the all brandish strats that are more effective.
@Paintool
I've always wanted to do an all-catalyzer run through a couple of areas, sadly I've only been successful at Jelly Palace for it...
But anyway, I like the way you think. I always like to encourage others to try out the various stuff the game has to offer, while trying it out myself as well. It is always entertaining to see how certain equipment work under various circumstances, so I tend to bring what ever I feel like where I go (with appropriate damage typing in mind.) Unfortunately, that gets clouded when the usual efficiency factor comes into play, especially when it comes to places such as a boss stratum and/or running with parties.
@Fehzor
I do agree with that, though the energy system is no longer needed for crafting, gathering the necessary items (i.e. Alchemy Orbs and Fire Crystals) can really slow progress for certain players, especially when it comes to acquiring new equipment. Took me awhile to craft the 5* Tortodrone Gun (Piercing) due to the lack of fire crystals and lower alchemy orbs.
P.S. It's been so long since I've actually been on, but can you actually name parties or anything of the sort? If not that would be a nice start to avoid certain mishaps with individual's goals in a run.
Naming parties? I don't think that's ever been a thing.
To be a bit off topic, the only real problem that could slow players down are crystals, all but radiant aside.
Orbs should be seen as a benefit (To us), not a thing to be of great concern. They're practically the old system, but better (For us).
They cost the same amount of energy from the supply depot (5* > 800 CE / E) - the same amount required to craft a 5* weapon in the Mist System - and can be found for free - while earning money.
So it is, again, like the old system. No downward leap has been made as far as I can tell (Again, for us...).
New players would have potentially less struggle with crowns, and even less struggle to get new equipment if they can make farming (With luck) bearable.
Don't get me wrong, I know they'll still have a somewhat hard time gathering orbs, but in most ways, it's beneficial (...To us.)
im a bit late on response
but I dont think I ever had a pulsar
I remember I've had a blitz, alchemers, blaster, and theres a 5* neutralizer in my recipes
I think you remember the wrong person
Mmm, no, I remember the name clearly because it was one of a kind. Vohtarak.
Perfect Seerus Mask with a Toupee, and I think Mercurial Mail. Sometimes you'd join me randomly.
And I remember now; it wasn't a Pulsar, it was a Supernova.
that was my costume once
I still dont think I had a supernova though
I gave up normal damage when I ditched my valiance and CIV
then I used a storm driver and blitz
then sold the storm driver and got a nova driver
sold both and used an argent peacemaker and sentenza
got OCH, got the mask
made mercurial mail
got a swiftstrike buckler
sold sentenza and got an obsidian carbine
started to use the warmaster rocket hammer
got a dread skelly shield
remade my blitz
made a voltaic tempest
sold the voltaic tempest
sold a useless winmillion
sold my argent peacemaker
sold my blitz to get my callahan
no supernova or reason for it there
i dont even have recipes for pulsar types
I'm not budging. I'm sure I have a screenshot of you with it somewhere in my Steam screenshots...
...Among the hundreds... And hundreds... Of screenshots. I'll see into it 2-3 hours from now.
why do u even have tons of screenshots?
I have many reasons why.
It could be a funny moment in LD.
It could be special like a rare monster spawn.
It could be that I accidentally press the wrong button and don't bother to erase it (Which somehow occurs a lot).
It could be that I keep record of many, many things.
But this isn't quite the thread to talk about that.
Edit: Well, I'm disappointed. I've seen roughly 2 screenshots with you in it - a Sentenza and Obsidian Carbine.
I am very disappointed, Sire Latches.
How does one go about arranging a Catalyzer party? Should I run around Haven screaming 'WHO HERE BELIEVES IN THE POWER OF CATALYZATION?!' or something?
I have only had a blitz needle since last year and I've played since 2012 :O (took breaks obviously...). When I didn't have a blitz, people would join me on the party finder, check my gear and then leave because I was too bad...
This is what you are experiencing now, and I would strongly suggest you get a blitz soon just in case you run into people like that on FSC again.
But if you really don't want to get a blitz, get a shiv so that they will think, "Hmmmm, this guy's actually got something usefull..."
Bringing any poison weapon is good as well because if you poison Vana they will be doing more damage to him... But if they kick you, it's not your fault it's their's...