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5* Spur (New Concept)

5 replies [Last post]
Mon, 12/01/2014 - 15:05
Gwddics's picture
Gwddics

Before you post "OMFG Y U NO USE SEARCH BAR WE HAVE A THOUSAND OF THESE THREADS ALREADY!" I did, and I didn't find any suggestion for a 5* Spur line that is similar to this, so please give it a chance

General Stats:
-appearance wise, the swords would be drastically different colours, and the fan should be replaced with something else (maybe a magnifying glass?)
-normal damage (buffed to 5* level, of course)
-regular attacks work exactly like the Winmillion's but projectile flies 1 tile further
-charge attack launches a disc that passes through enemies and explodes into a mini (very very small) vortex bomb at a set distance
-mini vortex lasts 1 second
-charge attack deals slightly less damage than Hit 1 of the combo on contact and when the vortex closes

Differences:
Bevel (Anti-piercing):
-slightly more damage than the others, but the additional damage is only on the projectiles
-larger projectile (expanded Pulsar) on normal attacks
-Damage vs Construct High, Damage vs Slime High

Candela (Anti-shadow):
-less damage is weighted on the projectile for normal attacks
-faster projectile (Antigua speed)
-Damage vs Undead High, Damage vs Fiend High

Dermatome (Anti-elemental):
-less damage is weighted on the projectile for normal attacks
-projectile circles similar to the Mixmaster
-Damage vs Gremlin High, Damage vs Beast High

Sandman (Sleep sword):
-looks different from the other 3 (keep the fan, maybe more add fans on the sword)
-no projectile on normal attacks, works exactly like Spur/Arc Razor
-good chance of moderate Sleep on Hit 3 of combo
-charge attack launches a disc that passes through enemies and explodes into a mini (same radius as mini vortex) haze bomb that induces minor Sleep
-haze lasts 1 seconds
-charge attack deals no damage on contact, but still deals damage when the projectile explodes

Explanation:

So, basically everyone's been asking for a 5* Winmillion/Spur, but one issue with implementing such a weapon is on how it's going to work.

Some people have suggested adding status effects, but we already have the Brandishes for that, and the Spurs would just be inferior in every way. However, some people have suggested adding Sleep back into the game with the Spurs, which I included here in the Sandman. Others also want the 5* version to work like the Spur, as they find the projectile annoying, and would prefer to use the sword only for its mobility on combos. This is also included in the Sandman. The Sandman is essentially other peoples' ideas that I like merged with my concept of making the charge attack a mini-bomb.

The greatest problem with normal swords however, is that they are inferior to specialized damage swords, and only serve a niche purpose as an all-purpose sidearm. This versatility is what I am trying to expand on with the first 3 swords. Since the Winmillion is already a sword + gun combo, I figured, why not make the 5* versions be the most versatile weapons in the game by making them sword + gun + bomb with the charge attack? OOO clearly isn't as strict about having set weapon niches seeing as they have added the Tortofists.

So, the main reason people want a normal weapon is as a sidearm, which is only necessary if you have only 2 slots. In other words, normal weapons are for poor people. I figured I would make the Spurs into the ultimate poor man's weapon, a crown of garbage, if you will.

One of the main problems with carrying a specialized weapon is that you will deal significantly less damage against the two families that are resistant to the damage type of your weapon. If you choose to carry another specialized weapon, then you will only deal neutral damage against those two families. But what if you want to deal more? Well, the 5* Spurs solve that problem perfectly. Each sword gives family damage bonuses against the two families that are resistant to the same damage type. Effectively making them have anti-Elemental/Piercing/Shadow damage (think anti-matter).

To give a practical example:

If you use Final Flourish and Polaris, you will deal increased damage against Fiends and Beasts (Flourish), and Constructs and Undead (Polaris). You will deal neutral damage against Slimes (Polaris) and Gremlins (Flourish).

If you use Final Flourish and the anti-piercing Spur, Bevel, you will deal increased damage against Fiends and Beasts (Flourish), and Constructs and Slimes (Bevel). And neutral damage against Undead and Gremlins (Both). You aren't losing effectiveness, as you still deal increased damage to 4 families. However, with the first combo, you have to switch weapons to deal neutral damage against the two neutral families. Some players may not like that restriction. But with the Flourish and Bevel, you can attack the neutral families with either weapon, and the added versatility of the Bevel gives you much more freedom.

The slight differences between these swords on the projectile is specially suited for the monster types they are fighting. Constructs and Slimes don't dodge, so the Bevel's projectile is more likely to hit, and so deals more damage. Gremlins and Beasts dodge a lot, so the Dermatome's projectiles are given less priority (damage) and the projectile circles back to improve chances of hitting. Fiends dodge a lot, and move quickly, so the Candela's projectiles are faster and less important. Undead are easy to hit anyway, so the Candela isn't as good as the Dermatome.

As for the names, I just made them sound sciency, which seems to be the theme of the Spur line. They also relate to the damage type they counter (a Dermatome is a surgical tool used for stripping skin, which both Gremlins and Beasts have, and presumably gives them their resistance to Elemental; Candela is a unit of brightness; Beveled surfaces exert shear force, helping to break armour plates/cut slimes apart) The vortex bomb on the charge attack is to give added utility, as vortex'd enemies make it easier to hit with the projectile on regular attacks, making for great self-synergy.

You might be thinking that the damage bonuses are too high, making weapons like the Cold Iron Vanquisher or Wild Hunting Blade obsolete. But remember that Spurs have the lowest DPS of swords, and are awkward to use most of the time. Also, the purpose of the 5* Spurs is to be the ultimate sidearm, which means that they can't rely on other pieces of equipment for additional buffs (a Gunner won't have any sword bonuses for example) On the other hand, the specialized normal weapons could probably use some buffs anyway.

Thank you for reading.

Mon, 12/01/2014 - 19:01
#1
Mephisto-Philus's picture
Mephisto-Philus
Beautiful! Magnifico!

I love the SandMan, Candela (Candle in spanish). ;DDD

Tue, 12/02/2014 - 03:06
#2
Jmmoormann's picture
Jmmoormann
The problem is that

The problem is that anti-class bonuses are obsolete too. Any elemental sword will do more damage to undead than the CIV for example. To make this a useful weapon class, those bonuses would have to be greatly increased. Besides that, with all the people using Skolver and maybe damage trinkets people already have sword damage bonus Max or very high at least, so it would not have any extra benefits. Swords with strengths against monster families with the same strengths is a good idea, but "damage bonus vs" probably won't work.

A sleep weapon would be fun indeed, but since it doesn't have the projectiles the winmillion has it sort of removes the actual power of it. The ideas are good, but this way it would be kind of useless.

Tue, 12/02/2014 - 04:52
#3
Avihr's picture
Avihr
Void

Actually, the problem is that he suggested a weapon with sleep.... SLEEP! baahahahahahahaahahahaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahah

*leaves the thread Lolzin*

Tue, 12/02/2014 - 14:02
#4
Gwddics's picture
Gwddics
@ Jmmoormann

The Sandman has a mini-haze bomb projectile for its charge attack, so I don't see how it wouldn't be effective at inducing sleep? The sleep chance on normal attack is also only on the 3rd strike of the combo, so the user can easily back away after inducing sleep.

As for the other swords, well, I wasn't going to do this, but the only other way to make the swords work is to give them mixed specialized damage. Yes, just like the old Argent Peacemaker and Sentenza that were changed because they were too weak (even though they did their jobs perfectly, the job of being good against monsters resistant to the same damage type) Argent Peacemaker is the bane of everything from the underworld (according to its description), which would be Undead and Fiends(who resist Shadow), so it has Piercing and Elemental damage. Sentenza is the bane of everything living (description), which would be Gremlins and Beasts (who resist Elemental), thus Piercing and Shadow.

So, here are the new damage stats:

Bevel: 1/2 normal damage, 1/4 elemental damage, 1/4 shadow damage, High vs Construct, High vs Slime

Candela: 1/2 normal damage, 1/4 elemental damage, 1/4 piercing damage, High vs Undead, High vs Fiend

Dermatome: 1/2 normal damage, 1/4 shadow damage, 1/4 piercing damage, High vs Gremlin, High vs Beast

Let's look at how it'll work in practice, with the Dermatome:

Enemies take 20% damage from damage types they are resistant to, and 120% damage from damage types they are weak to. High damage bonus gives about 20% more damage.

Let's say each strike deals 100 damage.

Strong against:

Gremlin: 50 normal + 25 * 120% * 120% shadow + 25 piercing = 111 damage

Beast: 50 normal + 25 shadow + 25 * 120% * 120% piercing = 111 damage

Neutral (ish) against:

Fiend: 50 normal + 25 * 20% shadow + 25 * 120% piercing = 85 damage

Slime: 50 normal + 25 * 120% shadow + 25 * 20% piercing = 85 damage

Weak (ish) against:

Undead: 50 normal + 25 * 20% shadow + 25 piercing = 80 damage

Construct: 50 normal + 25 shadow + 25 * 20% piercing = 80 damage

So clearly, we're going to have to buff up the damage a lot more now, as the weapons will actually deal slightly less than base damage against 4/6 families and we need it to actually deal at least decent damage to all families. But I can't think about any other way to make this work.

Tue, 12/02/2014 - 15:14
#5
Fangel's picture
Fangel
I'd say don't bother mixing damage types

Keeping the damage type to normal only makes the weapons viable for all things. The extra damage boost is just icing on the cake. It's essentially the "special damage".

If you already have large amounts of damage bonuses then you probably don't need this weapon. Plus having large damage bonuses just makes these weapons usable on all things. You don't lose anything. It's like claiming you shouldn't bring a sentenza while fighting gremlins because you already have a damage bonus of max. The gun just does more damage now, you aren't losing its utility.

But first we need to fix the sleep status on knights before we put it on a weapon. After we get sleep fixed then I say go for it with these weapons.
A few too many branches, but it's well thought out.

Also, use a Google search with the site:forums.spiralknights.com tag to do searches for threads in the future. The built-in search bar stinks, unless that's not what you meant by the search bar in your first sentence.

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