Gunner Update

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Valtiros's picture
Valtiros

Hi fellow lockdowners and fellow blast networkers ( even if you are not concerned) !!

Let me Usher the Topw about the new update in spiral knights!

Ad you may have noticed, or maybe you didn't , I don't know ( maybe some players are scatterbrained) A new update occured tonight in spiral knights!

It comprizes a lot of new guns, and also some gun sets.

Here you can talk of the effect of this update on lockdown, which guns are good or bad, their use in it and maybe even rage about the Opness of some new guns ! :D

Now , let's enjoy!

Vohtarak-Forum's picture
Vohtarak-Forum
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

delete one of these, you made 2

and there are no new mechanics so it wont do much

Valtiros's picture
Valtiros
Well, there is the pola

Well, there is the pola speed, the novelties of biohazard and also the attack types, I think it can do quite a litte.

I'll erase the other one when I have found how to ^^

Whimsicality's picture
Whimsicality

Biohazard is useless in Lockdown now, assuming they didn't change its behavior since the Preview Server

Klipik-Forum's picture
Klipik-Forum

I'd imagine the only things that would affect LD with any degree of significance would be the Valiances. None of the new armors have medium bonuses (I think?), so Shadowsun still reigns supreme there, and Magnus and Autogun haven't been buffed enough to make up for their lack of mobility. Shadow/freeze magnus won't do much either because everyone has shadow/freeze resist anyway.

Tubist's picture
Tubist
Biggest Change

The biggest change for me regarding gunning in LD is there is no longer a movement decrease while shooting, which while I have not tested it yet, might make some changes for all types of gunning, but especially recons and guards.

Scoutknightx's picture
Scoutknightx
The change has came

With this said, the polaris was downgraded in damage, but is improved in speed and range.
The catalyzer's main shots latch onto foes while the charge shots detonate.
The antigua family damage boosts are now set to high, and the polygon count on all models have increased.
The autoguns have a decreased windup time to attack, making it faster, and the range and speed are increased.
The magnus' charge shot has the power to pierce through enemies, and no longer prones you, but the speed of the shot is slightly slower
All guns have increased movement speed when you fire and charge, even your reload speed increases, and the cooldown animations are reduced for guns like : Blitz Needle, Magnus, Etc.

there are new alchemy paths too

Autoguns : Dark Chaingun, Black Chaingun, Grim repeater
Blasters : Shadow blaster, Umbral blaster, Phantamos, Elemental blaster, Fusion blaster, Arcana, Pierce blaster, Breach blaster, Rift Lock
Pulsars : Flaming pulsar, Blazing pulsar, Wildfire, Freezing pulsar, Frozen pulsar, Permafroster
Magnus : Tundrus, Mega Tundrus, Winter grave
Antigua : Raptor, Glided Griffin

Watch out for these new guns!

Seiran's picture
Seiran
..!!

Hi.

Can there be more like this now? :)

-------

While I haven't checked (hey btw, I've been off pirating thes seas in some other game for the past 3 months :P), from what I heard from preview server, there is much less charge movement penalty while charging guns, which means that the long-ranged charge attacks (you know, the ones that outrange Polaris) are now a slightly more viable option. Sniper-types should rejoice.

Valtiros's picture
Valtiros
Hm

I can't have connected yet, but an idea just occured to me about catalyzers.

Couldn't we use the simple bullets of catalyzer to reveal the recons?
I mean , the new catalyzer mechanics enables to shoot many "adhesive" bullets without charging.
We could just stick them to a recon quite easily , and then he can be considered as already dead.
it would be some kind of new status " invisiblilty revealing"

The new pulsars could lead to some new permafroster and wildfire spam , instead of the classic pola spam

We should also check if the new freeze magnus can freeze skolvers as hail driver does.

What is the new antigua? I didnt really understood.

Also, regarding valliance, given the general lack of elementary resistance , I think we will soon see most of the valliances replaced by arcanas ( Personnally , I dont have a valliance so I will make an arcana <3 love the name) . It could lead to an emergences of more elementary resistances in lockdown I guess. ( already a lot of DA compared to Gf)

Krakob's picture
Krakob

Dedicating a slot to keeping track of weapons would be like bring a Blitz Needle to deal with a bomber, except it'd be even more redundant because Catalyzers won't kill recons and recons are never a threat as big as bombers.

Valtiros's picture
Valtiros
We could just keep a loadout

We could just keep a loadout with cata, and if we see a lot of recons in the other team we take it . When there are 3 recons in the other team, it really starts to be oppressing . when you have death mark, you don't know how many recons are there and you often can't fight all of them in same time. I mean, don't you change you loadout depending on the match? when it is close I mean, and you really need to try and use the best methods to win.

Also, I use only 3 weapons in lockdown and I don't feel like lacking one. those who have 4 weapons could easily have a free spot for special circumstences :)

Valtiros's picture
Valtiros
Seiran > this is how lockdown

Seiran > this is how lockdown is supposed to be. :3

Seiran's picture
Seiran
Oh, and yes

Arcana or whatever elementary Valiance is called will likely rise up as the anti-BKC dueling gun. I know for sure I had saved up some radiants to instant-craft that.

Theirillusion's picture
Theirillusion

I don't like how the guns stay up for a while when not shield cancelling.

Hellscreams-Forum's picture
Hellscreams-Forum
Bad ? I only see the good side...

Welp they've buffed the pulsar line ....so GG for the ATers <3 #RIPAT2014

Tempas's picture
Tempas
@illu

I hate that aspect of the new mechanics and really hope it's just a bug...

Drdrj's picture
Drdrj

Yeah, this new mechanics where you keep the gun up for more time really sucks. Unless you're going to shield cancel, it's faster to use the full clip and reload. Now I'm even more vulnerable while capping a point, unless I waste my striker boost shield cancelling.

The good news is that zapper now does shock with the regular attacks, just made a few new loadouts for T3 with it.

Klipik-Forum's picture
Klipik-Forum
Woah

It's almost like they partially fixed a widely used exploit they never intended to exist and didn't particularly like much in the first place anyway.

Valtiros's picture
Valtiros
So, it will only nerf the

So, it will only nerf the strikers because they don't want to waste their precious boost. Guardians and recons have no problem with canceling after every single hit I guess?

Krakob's picture
Krakob

More or less. Wasting recon cloak isn't very nice because it can actually run out and if it does, you're in a real pinch. However, it will hardly be as bad as for Strikers, which is a great thing!

Tempas's picture
Tempas
This quite literally

This quite literally encourages strikers/recons to use swords only to be able to perform well. Using a gun isn't nearly as beneficial anymore since using one was most useful when you were out of boost. And before you say : "oh well that's a great thing! Strikers are getting nerfed!" No, they're not. People like feller,nore,Brandon etc who barely use guns in combat hence they won't be affected at all. All this does really is just give people who use mainly swords an edge.

Bleyken's picture
Bleyken

Perfect then. Old LD with the old strikers was way funnier.

Abelisk's picture
Abelisk
g

The thing is it would take ~200 shots of gun switching to break your Recon cloak. Gunning IS for Recons, after all. If you're out of cloak, just walk away to a safe place and recharge your Recon cloak. It's not hard.

Valtiros's picture
Valtiros
contri > did you even try the

contri > did you even try the new lockdown ?

Bleyken's picture
Bleyken

Yes, and the old one was way better like I said.

And now guns have an increased waiting time when you don't shield cancel, but swords always had it and it never was a problem.

Valtiros's picture
Valtiros
Yes but the interest of guns

Yes but the interest of guns is that it's safer than swords even if it does less damages.
This cooldown increase makes gunning less safe that it used to be.

Bleyken's picture
Bleyken

Not for guards and recons. Stop thinking like if only strikers were there.

Turn-Me-On's picture
Turn-Me-On
@DrdovisSurprisingly, guns

@Drdovis

Surprisingly, guns can easily counter pure swordies. There are many techniques that can be used to outmaneuver swordies.

Basically, you'll just have to get smarter about using your boost.

This effects like 10% of the gameplay, since strike boost recharges, and you can once again shield cancel.

Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight
Gunner buff = utter hell for

Gunner buff = utter hell for people who don't use mouse.
/me sad.

Krakob's picture
Krakob
@Deleted Knight

Gamepads still have the ability to aim guns moderately well. If I can do it, so can you! Y'know, unless you're a keyboard player...

Valtiros's picture
Valtiros
Contri > You may have a

Contri > You may have a point.

Fayeth's picture
Fayeth

Just played a match, had two guys spamming Polaris or the 4* counterpart at me, didn't really notice the difference in regards to projectile speed.

Turn-Me-On's picture
Turn-Me-On
^Why hello OP bomber dude.

^Why hello OP bomber dude. How you played a match of LD without dcing is beyond me O.o

Its most noticeable with the 5* version. You could search for Polaris demonstration on youtube, and compare that vs. Some spammer

Fayeth's picture
Fayeth

One out of the two gunners was using Polaris, the other was using it's 4* counterpart, l didn't notice anything between the two, l can tell that the speed has been increased but it had almost no effect on how hard it was to deal with, for me anyway.

Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight
@Krakob

Yeah, I know. I use keyboard, but recently have started to incorporate some "thumb on track pad" action. It gives me enough freedom to use a guns that's not called pulsar. My aim is still horrible, but hopefully it would get better with time.

Krakob's picture
Krakob

@Deleted Knight
That's a pretty cool style, really!

@Fayeth
Don't you think that's because of your lag? :P

Jungle-Sword's picture
Jungle-Sword
Meh...LD

I don't believe pola will be harder to dodge or anything, but its only a matter of time until almost everyone will have some line of pulsar. And then once if one started to bomb, everyone would just get their pulsars out.
5 pulsars at once = death due to immense lag and others statuses and other crap

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
......

RIP the LD bomber...... we hardly knew ye....

Fayeth's picture
Fayeth

Lol ^

Theirillusion's picture
Theirillusion

If I were a bomber I wouldn't fear thr pulsar line. I'd fear blitz lol.

Krakob's picture
Krakob

Yes, Blitz Needles would be very concerning since everyone knows that Blitz is the new meta.

Valtiros's picture
Valtiros
The nerfing of polaris is

The nerfing of polaris is definitely a good thing. I thought it would be no use because only the shock status was a worry but actually the thing was dealing too much damage in lockdown. Maybe people who need this power to spam will choose the normal version instead of polaris then. It hasn't been nerfed I believe so.

Fayeth's picture
Fayeth

I don't really find any gun to be that troubling unless a 4 barer starts using AT, even then l manage well enough.

Turn-Me-On's picture
Turn-Me-On
^But Fayeth, for us average

^But Fayeth, for us average mortals, it is a problem D:

Actually polaris isnt that bad anymore, but AT still exists. Maybe they'll rek AT once they replace their servers....? O.o

Valtiros's picture
Valtiros
Hey!

Meh, don't derail my thread into an AT Thread u_u.

Fayeth's picture
Fayeth

Quite funny because l just had a match where Nebrium was shooting me with an AT toggled Obsidian Carbine, and l go 'can't deal with non 1 barers using AT:/' after l die because..l can't, and he goes 'why do you complain so much?' when l never complain and the guy's AT firing at me with an Obsidian Carbine, and then goes 'not my fault you don't like to adapt your play', not sure how you can adapt to a mechanic that locks on to you because no matter what you do..it locks onto you, but that's new, l don't see many guys trying to cover up the fact they're using AT, especially when they're 3-4 bars, by acting tough..maybe l just don't pay enough attention, but that was amusing to say the least. Hooray for AT!

Whimsicality's picture
Whimsicality

If we're gonna open up this can of worms: Auto Target could (and very well should) be automatically disabled upon use of the mouse cursor or a gamepad's control stick, because you already have full range of control over your aim. Arrow keys, however, don't have the luxury of accurately aiming handguns.

With that said, I love my new Winter Grave. Too many people jump the gun and break the freeze way too often though. Volcanic Pepperbox is also a fun toy to mess around with; burn all the Kat Hats! I'm still mourning the loss of the Biohazard and Neutralizer, but I'll quickly get over that. Collect Blue Spheres!

Fayeth's picture
Fayeth

You should actually try aiming with a controller, it's..probably just as hard as using arrow keys l would say.

Whimsicality's picture
Whimsicality

At the very least having that control stick gives you the full spectrum of 360 degrees to work with. 8! directions is a no go with really precise handguns, especially Alchemers and Antiguas. Though, I've seen some crazy magic happen with people who play using the gamepad. Who was it, Krak? Or Retequizzle? Can't quite remember, but they sure make it look easy.

That being said, I'm very lazy and very cheap. If it means I have to buy a USB mouse that works with this computer or a new computer altogether (seriously, who designs these things? ugh) I won't do it. That's just me, though!

Turn-Me-On's picture
Turn-Me-On
@Fayeth Nebrium uses AT? Ill

@Fayeth Nebrium uses AT? Ill be sure to tbag him when i see him.

@ Whim

Trackpad in LD? Suicide! It works in the clockworks at best after some practice, but just doesnt cut it for the fast paced LD environment.

Also, I can recommend a $15 mouse that has 1300 dpi, laser tracking, adjustable dpi, and a few extra buttons, and a scroll wheel. And its wired.

Works perfectly, doesn't jump randomly like optical mouses, and its pretty ergonomic.

Fayeth's picture
Fayeth

He was while he was firing his carbine at me.