The Gunner Update in its current state completed what I think was its main purpose; to add viability to many guns.

However, in the process, it re-broke them. In the completely opposite direction.

Now they're ridiculously overpowered.

Brandishes are blatantly overpowered. Magnus charges are even stronger than Brandish charges and deal the same damage all across the attack's reach instead of being melee-centric. That, and every gun that doesn't deal insane damage instead has stupidly powerful mobility while firing, so you're pretty much never gonna get hit.

To clarify, your movement speed while charging a handgun used to be slower than your regular running speed. Now it is equal to your regular running speed. It is not faster than your regular running speed.

The same goes for Brandishes and many of the other swords. But the piercing swords are slightly slower than regular speed, WRH is slightly slower than that, and the other heavy swords are slightly slower than that (about 18% slower).

I do agree that it would be nice to have some rationale, balance, and variety in these charge movement speeds.

@Aviri

Polaris:
Bullets are faster, to a point where they can be easily avoided and have less hang time. Also, the damage is as it should be.
You can no longer create a Polaris wall as effective as before, which is awesome.

With some Michael Jackson moonwalking juke action, you can avoid avoid a polaris spammer's bullets and shove your Final Flourish right up their......armor?

All in all, the damage penalty makes this gun laughable in LD. You shouldnt really be complaining about the shock, since thats not a huge issue since everyone uses chaos despite knowing about shock.

POLARIS NERF FTW

magnus are arguably OP now. I was in a run with a guildie and it oneshotted a lumber with the charge. we were on normal, but still, one shot.

To be fair, I think they buffed Polaris more than nerfing it, mobs are having a pain in the butt time trying to doge me polaris shot, I can not literally obliterate anything that isn't a beast or a gremlin with this thing. With this patch I can push enemies further and from a further range while moving at normal speed, and the faster bullet allows me to chain flinch mobs even better than before. Polaris is no completely broken in PvE and I never play LD, thank you OOO.

@Arc

I think OOO showed too much love to the gunners, I recently switched to bombing so this patch is just, meh. And also, quality over quantity, adding all of these new armours doesn't mean a thing if the players have a pain in the butt time trying just to craft them,.

Although the Magnus seems like it should be OP, it's really not. Sure, I can actually use it as a main weapon now, but it's still got some drawbacks:
-Regular shots are pretty pathetic, stops movement, moves slowly and only allows 2 consecutive shots
-Charge shots do momentarily immobilise you

I find it's okay but still isn't insanely OP, the only thing I use it for is charge shots on groups which it often only hits about 25%-50% of.

One thing they could do is have the original impact of a charge shot deal 100% damage but each successive hit deal only 25% of the original damage or only allow it to hit an enemy once, as it is currently insane how you can hit an enemy 2-4 times killing them with 1 charge shot making it pretty much the gunner equivalent of the Sudarsuka, with the benefits of range...

At depth 9 or so I unleashed a level 6 Iron slug charge onto a group of enemies, and it obliterated three lumbers and a scuttlebot, plus it dealt a lot of damage to another lumber. At depth 22 I nearly instant-killed a giant lichen colony with one charge.

I think it is now one of my favorite weapons.

To clarify, Bopp, if you have MSI, your speed increases above normal while charging. I was going (near) striker speed with MSI High + Speed Powerup + charging Catalyzer.

Let's make sure that we agree on this basic point. If you have MSI, then your speed remains above regular while charging. You don't suddenly run faster when you start charging a gun. In other words, charging a gun now has no effect on movement speed, whereas it used to slow down your movement speed. Do we agree?

@Bopp

Sadly, we don't agree. I move faster when charging than when not charging. That is why I now run around charging my gun when speed running. Speed doesn't remain fixed; it goes up from the normal.

It is very easy to go in and say "WOW! MY SPEED IS INSANE!" and then find out that your speed is exactly the same as it was before, entirely due to how it used to be different. Similarly, it is easy to dismiss smaller bonuses of 3.5-4%, as those are very hard to notice to begin with.

What I'd like to see, if someone has the time and energy, is a video comparison of the two, with MSI: Very high charging/not charging the handgun side by side.

magnus op? hahahahahah, how can you say that, the only thing that changed in this gun is the charge shot, and it is a tad bit faster to shoot and reload now, but even that is hardly noticeable compared to what it was previously, besides magnuses have 2 shots not 4.

antiguas shouldn't deal more damage than a magnus, i don't know where you get that from, antiguas are safer to use than magnuses, they have more range and you can even move while shooting them making positioning and dodging easier and safer than magnuses.

IMHO this gun could have used an extra buff, jus saying.

It just feels as though your speed has increased while charging because we are so used to having reduced speed when charging pre patch. Technically your movement speed while charging has increased but not above normal (non) charging speed.

Regarding the iron slug being all powerful-

I really don't think it is. I think that it's a pretty incredible weapon with good damage and a lot of potential, but it lacks the ability to deal with large wall like mobs-- like vanaduke, trojans, deadnaughts, battle pods.. it doing poor damage against these kinds of mobs is extremely problematic for it. It's a very good pair of scissors, but it still isn't going to beat rocks very easily.

Dakonya put it quite well- http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/106529#comment-964037

"I just tried the callahan on the fsc and it works wonders agaisnt zombies but something that bugs me is that its charge attack only hit once trojans on the back.

And for worst, while the piercing not working against shields is understandable, then when i thought callahan would open new doors to the blitz meta while facing Vanaduke, I find out that charge attack only hit vana once before vanishing, if you do it at point black then it will hit up to 3 times."

The animation's a little more wacky, that's probably why.

Also, I figured out why I was somehow slower than you when you tested it with me, Poopsie.

ᴵ ᶠᵒʳᵍᵒᵗ ᴵ ʷᵃˢ ʷᵉᵃʳᶦᶰᵍ ᵃ ᵗᵒʳᵗᵒˢʰᶦᵉᶫᵈ⋅

Not to beat a dead horse, but I can now confirm regular running speed while charging almost all styles of guns at MSI+4 and at MSI-2. That covers both ends of the MSI spectrum. This is going to make the Lancer Knightz handgun movement speed wiki page rather dull. Anyway, have a good night, everybody.

("Almost all" means every style measured at 5 stars, except tortofists measured at 3 stars and Overcharged Mixmaster measured not at all.)