Having to buy 1* armor for 6k from vendors, which many new players don't even use, coupled with the recipes not being in HoH, makes it very unlikely that new players will actually use or even know about the content that was just released after a supposed 13+ months' work. It would be good if they got a free set in the early missions, around when they get the free Cobalt set, so they can learn about this alternate choice that's incredibly versatile.
Add the Padded Set to Mission Rewards
Wed, 12/10/2014 - 18:03
Thu, 12/11/2014 - 01:56
#2
algorithms are the solutions to any problem.
problems are:
1) the cobalt set itself. 2* is better than 1*. solution: instead of crafting some 1* guns, make players craft a 2* armor, then give out the cobalt set.
2) the astonishing amount of choice the player has while upgrading that armor, the confusion related to said choice, and the tendency to make mistakes of human beings in general and that people that just started playing the game in particular. there's no easy solution here, since you can get a grizzly 2* and mistakenly taking a firefly 3* recipe, taking the piercing armor set and the get cobalt right away, or other mistakes someone will make that I can't imagine. red text "PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT ARMOR YOU HAVE" might just solve half of the problems.
3) the fact that early players just don't have the cr, the orbs or the materials to craft said armor just like they don't have cr to buy the armor. well sheesh am I getting picky. there are quite a bit of missions before that point so we could shove the reward there, or we could say "arcade is that way, go get mats/cr."
Thu, 12/11/2014 - 02:04
#3
I mean ideally, the arcade redux just happens and all of the current systems of progression are thrown out the window and replaced with something that actually works AND makes sense AND is fun. But for the purpose of this suggestion, I'm working within the current system. I wouldn't put a lot of emphasis on this armor, just make it a reward instead of, say, the super slime slasher or something. Maybe add a mission subsection (2-4 or whatever). It's just to plant the idea in people's heads that "hey, you can use other armors besides cobalt, like this one, it branches into pretty much anything gun related." Not to force 36 choices down a new player's throat.
Thu, 12/11/2014 - 02:24
#4
algorithms are the solutions to any problem.
hey, idea!
bosco in the mission"advanced alchemy"(4-1) gives you a brandish saying that it has tons of branches. how about we replace that brandish with a padded armor?
Thu, 12/11/2014 - 08:25
#5
+1
+1
Thu, 12/11/2014 - 12:02
#6
More missions
Perhaps introduce them to it after they beat the Snarbolax, by this time they should have some knowledge about the basic working of the game.
Perhaps the new base recipes (shade, pathfinder, sentinel) could be handed out in a similar way as the sprite missions, or perhaps 3 missions to help out 3 different gunner squads (from each GU armor family) and as a reward you get an item each time, a helm, an armor, and an Autogun.
Thu, 12/11/2014 - 12:41
#7
^^^^^^^^^^^^
YES^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thu, 12/11/2014 - 12:48
#8
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name
yeah, what holy said
they already give us some random things like a strike needle recipe, shadow driver recipe, and that 4* shock bomb one
why not add some gunner pieces
Thu, 12/11/2014 - 14:01
#9
Also...
Three Rings should also have a mission that talks about running the arcade to get to Basil. Heck, you could have a tier 2 mission that ends at Basil, and Basil always has certain recipes to sell (which are bound upon acquiring). Recipes include:
2/4 of the 3* blaster lines (after they are given a blaster. This lets the player realize there are other ways to go about their gun than just "valiance"), a 3* boss item recipe (i.e., a 3* pulsar recipe, a 3* twisted recipe, etc), and at least one but no more than 3 gunner update recipes. Any other recipes included will be a mix of hall of heroes recipes, including 4* recipes. This mission should be after players unlock tier 2. This Basil will also have a short dialogue every time you speak with him, similar to the hall of heroes knights. Basil will say something along the lines of stuff stuff "I travel the clockworks in search of recipes for powerful gear. However, they would serve you much better than I. You can find me at the clockwork terminals in the Haven Arcade." stuff stuff end talking. Basically, have players realize there is a special merchant to give them special recipes, but only through the arcade.
Thu, 12/11/2014 - 23:10
#10
Maybe there should be a mission that drops you in the Arcade (as in the back part of Haven), and says that to beat the mission you need to get to a clockworks terminal. (and tells you how ofc.) Then you just pick an arcade gate and head down to Depth 4. Maybe at the end of Mission 2-1 (Reporting for Duty) which is a talk mission that tells you about the Arcade, Crystals and such.
Thu, 12/11/2014 - 23:18
#11
I think they should give it out with the cobalt gear. Then, if they happen to make a bomber/swordy version, they can give that out at the same time.
Thu, 12/11/2014 - 23:41
#12
That seems like a lot of stuff to be handed out at once, it would be 4 sets/8 pieces of gear at once. Instead, if/when bomb+sword armors come out, they should fill the HoH with those 3 lines and the standard defensive sets, and put Wolver, Demo, Gunslinger, Plate, and all the Specialist sets in Basil.
Sun, 12/21/2014 - 19:51
#13
I disagree!
I don't think this is a good idea! Tempting new players with armor that will be very hard to level up? By giving them 2* or even 3* recipes, you're only setting them up for failure. This is for two reasons. 1. These armors will be hard to level up. Basil recipes aren't easy to find, and when a new players finds himself with 3* armor that he can't possibly level up without paying crazy recipe prices, he will be discouraged from trying to advance. 2. There are too many choices! How will new players possibly decide, especially without knowledge of what's coming next or game mechanics? There are still vanguards trying to figure out the paths to 5* armors. New players won't even know where they're going.
Sun, 12/21/2014 - 20:21
#14
@ nethergrim
Players have a habit of rising to meet challenges. The numerous BK sets, obsidian items, and torto gear are testament to this.
Perhaps have the alchemy lines of each of these items visually explained for players. Much like the missions I suggested these too would only be explained in the appropriate mission. After being explained 3 times players are likely to see a pattern emerge in regards to the names.
Mon, 12/22/2014 - 05:14
#15
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name
also nether
I see knight elites , defenders, etc with the new guns and sets, just like I see them with boss items
you are saying that getting things that require basil is a bad idea, yet people are fine getting boss gear that way
Mon, 12/22/2014 - 06:56
#16
@Holy-Nightmare @Oohnorak
@Holy-Nightmare
On one hand, in all of the examples you have given, these tasks are met by, mostly, Vanguards. I can't speak for everyone, but the main goal for low-ranking knights is usually to become a Vanguard. These new gun/armors, as new and plentiful as they may be, are not the best choice for new players. So, we'll go with your strategy. I'll use the first one, as the second one, in my opinion, is not good. Players would be handed 3* armor sets, only to be suddenly cut off and have no idea where they even came from? Anyway, so you're a new-ish player and suddenly you are shown a huge chart with what seems like a million possible outcomes. What do you do next? New players could obviously make a decision, but how could they possibly make the best one?
It could prove useful to add Padded Armor, as the title suggests, as the reward of a mission. The problem then, though, becomes what to do next. With the Calibur line, players are guided through. How is it practical to do this with Padded Armor? The goal of the introduction to the game, its rewards, and their paths is to give the player a simple and sharply defined path to becoming a Vanguard. Does Padded Armor really help the introduction do this?
@Oohnorak
I'm sure some of the points above might prove helpful, but to address what you said, with boss gear, the path is easy. With new gear, however, the paths are very confusing. There are still Vanguards trying to figure out how to get armors.
I'm kind of thinking 'out loud' here, so let me know if any of these points are helpful.
Mon, 12/22/2014 - 09:04
#17
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name
that problem was already solved, it was suggested to make a mission that showed the alchemy paths
Mon, 12/22/2014 - 11:29
#18
No, that's not the real problem.
I'll be concise. The real problem is that new players will have trouble making the best decision. The goal of the introduction to the game, its rewards, and their paths is to give the player a simple and sharply defined path to becoming a Vanguard! Showing players a huge collection of alchemy paths with so many branches will only add to confusion. There's a reason players get Blast Bomb and not Stagger Storm. When the player receives a Blaster, he should not be given the Pierce or Shadow Blaster recipes, he should be given the Super Blaster recipe. The Spiral Order weapon set has simple and easy upgrades. That's the reason it is given to the player as part of the introduction.
Mon, 12/22/2014 - 12:32
#19
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name
im just not even going to comment on that
just wow
Mon, 12/22/2014 - 13:23
#20
That's why I think we should remove all recipes from the Hall of Heroes except for the Azure, Padded, Jelly, Skelly, Magic, Brandish, Alchemer, and Mist Bomb lines. And triple the size of basil's inventory, or rework him entirely.
Mon, 12/22/2014 - 17:14
#21
@Oohnorak
Well, arguing on the forums can't be the way to contribute to this thread. Discussions are productive, but the real way to contradict someone is with valid points. I've made my point two times, and understand there is no reason to do so again. My point in posting this, though, is that I am curious as to why you are so offended by my post. There is obviously some flaw in it that you have noticed, and I would appreciate if you could point it out so that I can edit it, or explain something that I failed to the first time.
Mon, 12/22/2014 - 19:41
#22
Well with so many levels in
Well with so many levels in the game there are few "Bad" armor decisions. Handing out a padded set and recipes is much better than Cobalt.
Even if you do hand a player a Super Blaster recipe it would be nice to tell them that there are some more recipes other than that one.
Mon, 12/22/2014 - 19:55
#23
Nice idea.
Or they could just have it be a reward in that alchemy mission where you get rewarded with a Brandish, and have it be given to you alongside the Brandish. Since Padded Armor has SO FREAKING MANY alchemy paths, it would be a logical reward for that mission. Then have the recipes for the armor's various paths be given in HoH.
Also, I don't think most recipes should be taken out of HoH. Before HoH was added, the only way to get certain recipes that vendors didn't sell in Haven was to dive into the Arcade, complete a stratum, and hope that by chance, Basil was carrying what you were looking for at the Clockwork Terminal. The only other way of getting it would be to buy from the Auction House, where merchants GROSSLY overprice most recipes that are usually sold for a fraction of their asking price by NPC vendors. HoH just makes getting better gear more convenient and easier.
Tue, 12/23/2014 - 05:04
#24
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name
@nether im not offended
just that I realized theres no point trying to discuss that further
you didn't get what I was saying, and it seems like you never will
no reason to continue it
Mon, 12/29/2014 - 14:03
#25
+1
Learning new players more about Basil and crafting is a great idea, and I would really like to have Basil (and maybe even Vatel) be more important in the game (removing HoH!). Combined with that there should be a similar bomber armor (or the current one), and make the cobalt line more sword orientated (and adding a 1* to both of them). Then you could either choose between sword, gun or bomb or you just get them all, because well, as a new player you won't have enough orbs to upgrade them all anyway.
Mon, 12/29/2014 - 18:12
#26
...
Why so enthusiastic to have HoH removed?
Mon, 12/29/2014 - 19:37
#27
@ Jessecho
Many of the currently rich players made a good deal of CR by selling recipes on the AH. The HOH cut out a large chunk of recipes leaving out only boss weapon recipes.
Removing HOH would make progression in the game harder for new players since they would have to find the recipes themselves in the clockworks or grind out the CR to buy them on the AH. Old players don't see the benefit, all they see is a lost source of income.
Mon, 12/29/2014 - 19:50
#28
Holy-Nightmare
So just the usual Tier 3 elitists that use ripping off new players as a major source of money.
Mon, 12/29/2014 - 20:22
#29
I have an Idea!
While I don't have a solution to many of the problems discussed above, I do have an idea everyone can agree with.
We all know how the boss missions give us little recon modules we can access from our arsenal, in the artifact category, that give us a little bit of info about the story of the game. In the mission where you receive the padded armor, you can receive something like a recon module that you see from your arsenal, which graphically and with some words explains the new gunner armor paths. If you are confused you can easily check your arsenal instead of having to replay the mission.
In general SK could do a better job explaining things to players in-game, and this would be a great start. The wiki shouldn't be as necessary as it is to a basic understanding of the game, it should be used for checking what's in a recipe, a deeper understanding of strategy and what gear is good for what, along with many other things. Most of the key aspects of the game should be explained through missions and, with my idea, something akin to recon modules, that explains parts you can easily reread from your arsenal. This kind of leads into the arcade redux, which hopefully will make the missions more of an explanation, not just a quick and boring way to access the necessary farming of The Rotting Metropolis and FSC.
Since I'm already talking about the Arcade/Missions redux, I just want to mention that SLs are not explained whatsoever in the missions, and I think there should be some kind of SL mission after FSC. Maybe something that is reduced price for the first time (200-300 ce instead of the usually 450 ce) I'm not sure how this would work because you need a full party for SL runs, and you don't want experienced Vanguards preying on the Vanguards who have yet to do the mission just so said experienced Vanguards can get a discount, but it's just an idea, albeit one that needs much work.
Damn this is long, but worth the read (I hope)
Mon, 12/29/2014 - 22:22
#30
@Jessecho
Oh dear.
Lets say I'm a new player and I find a recipe that on average is worth 37K crowns on average at the moment. I can-
A) Use the recipe for 25K crowns, saving me 12K crowns on average
B) Attempt to sell the recipe to make 12K crowns on average
If I use the recipe, I didn't have to buy the recipe. If I sell the recipe, I don't want it enough at the moment and it is impossible for me to acquire the recipe without wanting it more, provided I can only find it at Basil or on the Auction House. In this way, the recipe is ALWAYS worth the amount on auction house, and the trip to Basil is always worth the average number of crowns of recipes I can find and sell with the initial cost of the recipes subtracted.
More importantly, if I value the recipe highly enough to go after it in some way, then I have 2 options to get it:
A) Farm Basil for the recipe = produces recipes to sell
B) Farm somewhere else for crowns = produces crowns that are traded for recipes
Strangely enough, if everyone plays perfectly, these options are EXACTLY THE SAME AS ONE ANOTHER. Think about it. WHAT IF- recipes sold for 200K crowns? Well I'd go for recipes, because that certainly beats the optimistic 12K I'd get at the citadel. BUT- if recipes sold for say, not at all, then some mission which happens to pay out more than the arcade in general would become the new focus of attention for myself and likeminded individuals. So people farm what pays out the most, which is either recipes or some mission until the payouts become balanced with one another, because every time I find a recipe the demand for that recipe decreases a teensy bit and every time I attempt to purchase a recipe the demand for it increases a teensy bit.
However, newer players often foolishly all go for the big money and guaranteed odds rather than the risky business of finding recipes without considering any of this. In this way, not enough recipes are generated and older players that know the odds and can go on a large number of runs to guarantee they find worthy recipes pick up the slack for them, and in the end the newer players are the ones that benefit from their efforts. Capitalism then rewards the older players for their endeavors.
And suggestion of the week goes to Klipik! This is exactly the kind of thing we should be giving to new players.