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Gimmick time : Gamepad + Mouse. Now with hand movements !

9 replies [Last post]
Mon, 12/15/2014 - 02:30
Sipsy's picture
Sipsy

Van-Winkle's Gimmicks : This episode, Gamepad and Mouse !

Made a video of hand movements which you can watch right here !

Notes Before we begin : I am a keyboard and mouse user and most of my experiences will be from that point of view, so if I say something wrong/incorrect, please do not feel butthur-- I mean, offended. Sorry in advance.

Why the (Left blank) did I try this?
I asked a friend/guildie (that kicks my ass whenever he plays LD) what his controls were and it was a gamepad. I tried pure gamepad but it takes hours and hours to learn to aim with dual sticks on a gamepad, let alone weapon switching on it but you get nice smooth movement ( And if you already use pure gamepad, you've got my reshpect, mang ). A keyboard and mouse only gives you 8 directions, but with less effort/learning in order to aim. If you combine movement from gamepad, full 360 movement with the easy aim of a mouse, whaddaya get? A hurt left hand with Accurate Aim and fluid movement. I tried it for the first time today and man was it fun.

Things that have improved after trying the gimmick out :

-Using swords ( which I'm not very good at ) became a lot easier ( your mileage may vary ).
-Movement, jukes, boost consumption have become a lot better
-Dodges, especially circles, quarter circles, full circles, semi circles have become a lot easier to use consistently, chaining them together against guards.

Things that have somewhat stayed the same :
Weapon switching, single and double are (probably) easier to use from a controller only point of view, but from my perspective, it's stayed the same.

Things I'm working on :

-My finger slides up onto the left bumper and I waste my dash sometimes.
-I occasionally spin the wrong way with my mouse, in relation to the analog stick ( probably just me being silly willy nill.. )
-After a while, my left hand starts hurting after squeezing the controller harder than usual with one hand to keep it upright.

Here are my personal keybindings an Xbox 360 controller :

- Left analog stick for movement, unassigned face: north/south/west/east
- Select button for map pop out
- Left Bumper ( R1 for Playstation users ) = Dash
- Left Trigger ( R2 for Playstation users ) = Shield/Boost/Cloak/Defend

You can also assign weapon slots to the D-Pad
I don't use the controller for anything but movement ( and map ) so I can focus more on that.

Here's the weird mouse part. I wouldn't use this myself if I wasn't maining guns / single switching / double switching, which you can find the guide here. Also note, you do not have to use these controls if you want to try the gimmick out for yourself, whatever's easier :

- Left Mouse Button, Weapon 1
- Middle Mouse Button, Attack / Action
- Right Mouse Button, Weapon 2

Final Notes:

I find it easier with gamepad/mouse in lockdown now after only a day of use so it's working pretty well for me.

If you don't have a $30 gamepad, you could also try it on your $200 arcade street fighter 4 ( Which I'm very jelly of and hate you for and it also wouldn't work as the arcade stick inputs directions in either a square or an octagon so you should just send it to me ;P (even though it'll still have better movement than WASD coz of how easy it is to push than to press the inputs))

Anyyyyyywaaaay, try the gimmick out. Have fun, cya next time !

Mon, 12/15/2014 - 02:48
#1
Sipsy's picture
Sipsy
Reserved

Reserved

Edit: Grammar.
Edit: Added Notes and stuff.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 11:09
#2
Parasthesia's picture
Parasthesia
Interesting. I might try it

Interesting. I might try it because I was thinking about the limitations of using one finger on wasd keys to move up and down. I don't have the most nimble of digits.

I personally use mouse for shielding/attacking and scroll for switching, left hand is movement and dash.

Another interesting strategy to try with a mouse with at least one additional button is binding that to move forward and play one handed.

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 09:32
#3
Parasthesia's picture
Parasthesia
Problems I've noticed: game

Problems I've noticed: game doesnt want to show the mouse cursor whole gamepad is in use, so you end up with a stuttery reticule that flashes in and out of sight. I find that reticule useful for aiming guns.

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 11:18
#4
Krakob's picture
Krakob

I tried pure gamepad but it takes hours and hours to learn to aim with dual sticks on a gamepad, let alone weapon switching on it but you get nice smooth movement ( And if you already use pure gamepad, you've got my reshpect, mang ).
This is very true. Mastery of gamepad aiming is more or less impossible, I'd say. I've probably clocked maybe 2000 hours since I started playing with gamepad and I still have plenty of room for improvement.

(And if you already use pure gamepad, you've got my reshpect, mang)
<3

Your gimmick is quite interesting, don't think anyone has done it before. The closest I've come to this would be when I played with a Wiimote, I suppose. Personally, I don't think I'd like it very much. I'm not a big fan of using a mouse in SK and it would probably be somewhat lacking in terms of available buttons. On a gamepad, I primarily use buttons on the right side of the controller because it's not good to let go of your movement stick and thus, using the d-pad is not viable. I use face buttons for weapons and RT and RB for attack and AT toggle, respectively. Stick buttons are for items and sprite skills.

My main concern with this would be ergonomy. Gamepads aren't built to be held by single hands and I can imagine that gets quite heavy for the hand, especially if you have a chubby gamepad like an Xbox 360 one. That, combined with my inability to spend a long time with a mouse without getting issues would be quite bothersome. Also, SK doesn't support multiple control schemes so setting this up and using other styles as well would be highly inconvenient for me, I suppose.

Something that could work with this is Razer Hydra I guess, but it might be hard to acquire. Judging by it being unlisted in Razer's product list, I reckon it's no longer in production as it never really seemed to become very widespread. Perhaps you could look at some other form of similar controller. The Nunchuck of a Wiimote would fit quite well, I reckon.

Sat, 12/20/2014 - 02:38
#5
Sipsy's picture
Sipsy
Thanks for the feedback,

Thanks for the feedback,

@ Parasthesia,
I've tried playing with one handed with the mouse before, though I had the walk key on spacebar. This was late last year when I really started getting into lockdown. What I found was that

- I was horrible at swords ( Probably still am ), which are easier to use with mouse + spacebar only.

- It needs some testing but you can still weapon switch with guns, I haven't tried it yet ( as I didn't know how to weapon switch back then ), but I think I've found a way.

- It needs a bit of practice and a lot to get used to, so I was also dying every time I got revived and at the time, that honestly annoyed me. That was probably the biggest reason I just dropped the idea. I'll definitely try it again soon, though.

With your problem with the disappearing cursor, did you remember to unbind the face north/south/west/east keys? My cursor doesn't disappear on me

@ Krakob,
You're right, ergonomics is the biggest problem I had when I first tried it. I was thinking about silly ideas, getting a saw and cutting it in half, taping it to my desk - but I just place it on my lap now and it's fine.

-----With the nunchucks

tl;dr, Good idea with the Nunchucks, Less effort than Keyboard, more ergonomic than controller but needs more effort on the mouse side of things.

The Wii nunchuck's similar to a keyboard in the fact that it inputs buttons except that it's got 8 directional "buttons" or inputs, so you only need a finger instead of two, so I guess it'll work. The very small setback is that you'll be losing the smooth movement and you'll need to move the mouse in an octagon rather than a circle in order to match the controller's boost consumption efficiency. Though, the wii nunchuck is still a lot better than the keyboard for movement, and will be more comfortable than the xbox controller.

I'll probably post a video of a match on Sunday or Monday of my hand movements and stuff. Don't expect anything good though, I can't edit for my life.

Sat, 12/20/2014 - 13:11
#6
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Actually, you can get a nunchuck to give you analogue movement although it's quite the hassle. You'll need to use PPJoy, a REALLY old program which creates virtual gamepads which you can feed input to through GlovePIE. You can't do it with GlovePIE only, though.

Sun, 12/21/2014 - 23:29
#7
Sipsy's picture
Sipsy
Added

Added a demonstration on youtube.

Mon, 12/22/2014 - 04:40
#8
The-Germ's picture
The-Germ

...but can you JIVE?!?!?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY5pmzmiDO8

In all honesty, this is probably one of the best potential layouts for quick reflexes. I find myself better at dodging as a pure swordie using a controller, but favor my ball mouse/keyboard since I grew up on quake 3. Neat vid.

Mon, 12/22/2014 - 13:34
#9
Sipsy's picture
Sipsy
Jiiiiiive

@ The-Germ

I was born into the wrong generation !

--
Yeah, foot work's easier with the controller. Thanks for the feedback. :D

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