I browse the videos of all these spiral knights lockdown channels with captions "No AT". Such youtubers as Blueflood, Theirillusion, DrDovis, Krakob, Bullpig etc. then I look at their bars and their graphics quality. 4 bars in their main server, 3 bars on the other server, fluid graphics. Then I hear their banter. AT is soo stupid. Ban it. Oh no skill AT. Noob. Then I look at my own computer. 3 bars on US. 1 bar in Eu. Yup. Then I hear these people complain about out their butt. Essentially, you people are like the entitled rich pricks in America that complain about too much tax on their money. They don't see what they have but still have the balls to complain. STOP. You guys say AT is unfair. How is a 4 bar connection fair when most of the other players have a 3 bar at best. It's NOT. You people are being hypocritical. But on the flip side, people who have godly connections and still use AT Epic-Legend-Knight Darkcub Icycute Snarkey Remet etc are being absolutely ridiculous. It's unfair to the rest of the players who have a crappy conneciton and those that decide not to AT. You say AT is a cancer to the community but you guys are doing the same.
This is what I see from Non-Aters
4 bars is optimal (says so in game files), how the game should be played. If you can't get 4 bars that's because of distance or internet provider and that's really unfortunate because you'll have to predict more or CHEAT your way through an otherwise fun pvp game.
It's really hard not to take this as a really lame excuse to be an AT noob.
Feller has won a tourney, and after a year his record is still unbeatable and he has 2 bars AKA 200-250 ping. You're whole thread is crap
At gives the greatest benefit to those with the better connection. It's difficult to make things equal in any form of gaming, but AT places things way out of balance. Without AT the people with different latencies have to read each other rather then just "hi - i walk up and hit you with striker cause i have 20 ping and AT swords GG". It makes it more of an actual game instead of a selfish way to win. 3 bars is a magic number that makes latency hard to guess. With a worse connection i'd suggest maining swords just out of necessity - as gunning really does require a pretty good connection to read people.
As far as your worldview goes on the whole thing, complaining about people who complain is kinda self destructive and nullifies the whole argument - so that really doesn't deserve a direct response. If PC performance and a connection deficit are things that are holding you back, you're welcome to get a new computer or move to the appropriate server area. Funnybunnys has an awesome computer but a bad connection, but his player performance is pretty solid. Work some overtime, haggle about your allowance, and upgrade your PC if this is really important to you.
OMG, A GOOD THREAD WITH CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM IN THE COLISEUM! FINALLY!
Since you mention me and then discuss "them", I'll just treat this as something directly addressed to me. It's indeed true that I have a good PC and a good connection. As do most people who play on high levels in games, that's the nature of competition. Those who spend the most time, resources, and have the most fit bodies are the ones who will come out on top. The most notable difference between gaming and regular sports is that gaming requires a decent PC and practice; it's not so much about being lucky with your genes. Having a bad PC is annoying and limiting, as you claim it is for you. Going on the forums to complain about it, however, is very very pitiful.
- Essentially, you people are like the entitled rich pricks in America that complain about too much tax on their money. They don't see what they have but still have the balls to complain.
This might be one of the silliest statements stated here. I don't know about the others you're thinking of, but personally I reckon I'm quite the opposite. I've lived all my life in Sweden, a comparatively extremely socialistic country. I was raised by socialists and I identify as a socialist. To say that I live in poverty would be an exaggeration but I have by now spent the last 6 years or so without an assurance of having food on my table by the end of the month. You wanna guess how I got my computer? Dedication. Lots and lots of it. I saved every penny I could for two years, with an average of about 8 dollars per week saved. If you have the nerve to compare me to someone who's "rich", I would not call it justified unless you're basically a hobo.
- You guys say AT is unfair. How is a 4 bar connection fair when most of the other players have a 3 bar at best. It's NOT. You people are being hypocritical.
There's nothing fair about connections. I didn't choose to have a 4 bar connection, you didn't choose to have a 3 bar connection. No one has ever said connections are balanced or fair, but you definitely seem to think so. Connections are based on geographical locations, ISPs, et cetera. These are things we often cannot choose, which is why we don't discuss them here. They just won't change and people will have to live with whatever they have - be it good or bad.
- But on the flip side, people who have godly connections and still use AT Epic-Legend-Knight Darkcub Icycute Snarkey Remet etc are being absolutely ridiculous. It's unfair to the rest of the players who have a crappy conneciton and those that decide not to AT.
I think you just confirmed the main anti-AT point. People who have good connections, PCs, et cetera are way too powerful. I reckon the majority of top tier European players choose to not use AT for this reason, although this is not reflected by the American playerbase. This is why AT is hated, not beceause there are 2-bar players who can hardly score 5k who use it. It's about abuse, not just use.
- You say AT is a cancer to the community but you guys are doing the same.
The countless constructive arguments I've presented, all the research I've done, all the time I've spent explaining crap to angry people like yourself is cancerous you say? I've spent dozens of hours on these forums, in training halls, and so on just to add clarity to the constant AT debate and make different sides understand each other, even if it's been of little use. I do agree that AT is a cancer to the community, but not to the game. It has its place, but it's badly implemented. The bad implementation is what's really bad. It causes tons of flame wars, drama, and whatnot. Your post is just an example of that: something which would never have happened if AT was given a proper implementation or was just removed.
The same doesn't go for others mentioned, of course. That doesn't mean they're at all bad for the community, though. Contri and Blueflood have made some of the biggest contributions to the Lockdown community through its entire history. Without the single pony known as Contri, the Lockdown community would hardly be anything compared to what it is today. Of all public competitions, tournaments, and whatnot during 2014, I'd guess at least three quarters were arranged by him. There'd hardly be anything without him or someone else doing the same.
All in all, your post is the perfect hypocritical example of what's problematic with a huge amount of people who argue in the LD community. You generalise and you ignore facts and arguments presented by others.
It's about abuse
This is the key.
btw, the starter of the non-AT community was a guy with 2 bars
i saw my name so i thought it fit that i reply but i have nothing to say other than 1v1 me irl 360 no scopes ladder bounce wall bang
This is like that one Youtube comment I read that said piracy was ok for poor people.
Yo I don't AT and my best ping is 120ms (3 bars)
I have 1bar and you don't see me complaning...So yeah, I think you're being a spoiled brat. Be lucky that you have 2Bars m8 and I'm representing all of the 1Bar community...
Edit : Oh shatp it Fate <3 U making me blush o3o
I think you're being a bit too proud.
Oh i didn't relize i have a godly 4 bar connection. Im lucky if i get a stable 3 bar considering many people in my house hold are on my net.
"when most of the other players have a 3 bar at best"
Ok, so this is your statement. Do you have any proof? a survey or else?
There is a fine line between Tryhard pro and total noob. In lots of other PVP games the fight lasts long enough that even a noob can inflict some respectable damage. This isn't as true in SK, most fights are over in 4 sword hits, less if you don't use trinkets.
AT is a boosting factor for many weapons but others like Bombs or slow bullet guns don't benefit from AT as much.
Trinkets are a boosting factor that allows players to take extra hits or cover gaps in their class choice.
Connection is a boosting factor since it gives those with a good one more immediate responses.
AT is free and paying players look down on "F2P" players (even in TF2).
Trinkets take time to acquire and put new players at a disadvantage, BUT they are still relatively cheap.
Connection is affected by your internet provider and where you live in respect to the server. This is the most expensive aspect to alter as it requires a change of address and possibly internet provider.
darkcub has 2-3 bars. also, you only see AT complainers on youtube having 4 bar connection and fluid graphics because only people with 4 bar connection and fluid graphics are capable of making decent-looking youtube videos. i complain about AT, but you don't see me on youtube because my graphics are too shit to record and play simultaneously. same is true for a lot of people
Sparkcub has 4 bars
As an observer, I see strong notions of latin supremacy, european supremacy and american laziness.
It appears that EU doesn't seem to understand that US is flooded with all the people in and around asia some who are probably mad at the ping causing them to think the only option is to 'spam polaris'. A lot of you people seem to complain about 3-2 bars as if its a bad thing and all feller proved was that he was able to perfect a style which is the optimum style that some guild used it to top the leaderboards for a few months or something. You've all got to stop this 'I'm limping and now you're crippled?' mentality as if its some sort of accomplishment however impressive it may be. People can always lie about ping, it's not as if these damn bars have exact numbers on them.
You should instead, start targetting OOO with your smear campaigns to balance LD mechanics. You'd all probably rubberband less if they changed certain aspects primarily being the striker speed and range of certain weapons which essentially throw out any counterplay with wonky connections. I checked out LD a couple of days ago and 3 years on, it's still the same people complaining about the same useless crap (lag, range, noob US, polaris, AT) in LD with people even going as far as making alts to try out these purported cheap tactics. There's no reason why they shouldn't balance LD seeing as the game's endgame content consists of grinding hours upon end for gear to further enhance grinding and Lockdown pvp. Gotta vote with them dollars or riot.
and yeah AT is stupid, why dis guy with 30x less ping have to use it then spam /laugh at me when i die to him.
Who cares what other people think.
inb4 /ignore feature is a real thing. ( wink(le) wink(le), nudge nudge )
It's a waste of time trying to argue, just accept things as they are. There'll always be people on both sides, for anything and everything. You won't win them over. It doesn't matter what they think, do your own thing. Do whatever you want.
On topic ( I think ? )
~
If you've got a bad connection, know your lag/latency. Suck it up, accept the fact that you can't change it ( without a large fortune of money that you'd be willing to spend on a free game to decrease ping ). Complaining about lag is almost the same as AT, you can't change it, so accept it, know it, play around it. In the end, you decide how you play, not the community.
In the end, it's just a game. So try to have fun, 'kay?
A guild told me to check this topic.
i found out why the latin community loves AT so much, it reminds them of home
i didn't read the script or pretty much anything in this thread besides the OP so i'm assuming this is the part where i throw in a few jajajas
hi
@Retequizzle That would be the MEXICAN community, there are a lot more countries that can be considered in the "latin community" and have no idea what that just was *cough*like me*cough*
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A bit more on topic, I'm going to copy-paste what Van-Winkle already said, which would be pretty my opinion on this too:
"Who cares what other people think.
inb4 /ignore feature is a real thing. ( wink(le) wink(le), nudge nudge )
It's a waste of time trying to argue, just accept things as they are. There'll always be people on both sides, for anything and everything. You won't win them over. It doesn't matter what they think, do your own thing. Do whatever you want.
On topic ( I think ? )
~
If you've got a bad connection, know your lag/latency. Suck it up, accept the fact that you can't change it ( without a large fortune of money that you'd be willing to spend on a free game to decrease ping ). Complaining about lag is almost the same as AT, you can't change it, so accept it, know it, play around it. In the end, you decide how you play, not the community.
In the end, it's just a game. So try to have fun, 'kay?"
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This thread just made me realize how stupid I was to complain about trivial stuff, thank you very much, everyone who complains about AT.
Now it's my turn to write this, then rage and break everything in my house right after:
I am sick of this AT war (It was put there for a reason, just use it or don't, I honestly don't care, nobody should), Lockdown is incredibly unbalanced and needs improvement, just as everything from SK could, just like your face could, the entire world needs improvement. NOTHING IS PERFECT, we're not living in a fairy-tale, so either find a way to fix stuff or just shut up, get over it and move on with your life.
Lockdown isn't the only thing in the world.
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TL;DR: JUST SHUT UP AND STOP COMPLAINING PEOPLE! I'm sure there are more important things than this.
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And this is why I shouldn't be let on discussions, I don't want to end up saying stuff I shouldn't and then get banned. Good day everyone.
Lockdown isn't the only thing in the world.
I'm sure there are more important things than this.
and yet here you are. anyway, no one said it was the only thing in the world. this isn't the only thing we do with our lives. but when we do play sk or log onto forums, we complain about AT. ;)
AT has no valid excuse. why should anyone need the game to aim for them?
• do you need your mom to make your lunch for you? probably not.
• do you make her do it anyway? yes.
• why? because you're lazy.
i think new players are the only REAL exemption from this. they don't even know how to shield cancel yet, so they shouldn't be expected to aim by themselves. but when it comes to experienced players who know full well how the game mechanics work and the different strategies to playing and attacking, it's just sad.
everyone is entitled to their opinions, so stop demonizing the non-AT community and our opinions, because we think yours are just as stupid and irrelevant.
Yes, I forgot to mention I am so bored and had so much free time I decided to comment on this, I'm not busy at all today.
You should tell that "AT has no valid excuse" to the SK team, or GMs, or whoever can "fix" this issue, since I don't use AT, I rarely play Lockdown, and I simply can't do anything about it. I don't mind small "complaints" but this is all over the forums and in every single Lockdown game I've seen, there are literally rants about rants about AT. That's my entire point, everyone's starting to exaggerate and make a huge war over "noob" ATers and non-ATers whose arguments make absolutely no sense to me (most of them at least).
I am not on either side, because both sides have their opinions (and every single person has their own opinion too) and there are lots of variables involved in this too, that actually make the game even more unbalanced than it already is with AT (connection, UV's, trinkets, etc.). The only thing I'm really asking for here is not to make such a fuss about this. If you want to ban AT forever, do it. If AT won't have a way to be turned off from now on...DO IT. I honestly DON'T CARE. I'm just sick of so many people going overboard, just talk about something else.
Again, what I mean is I don't care about AT and I'm not supporting EITHER side. I just have some free time and I'm trying to express my opinion as respectfully as I can: STOP EXAGGERATING, THERE ARE OTHER THINGS BESIDES AT AND LOCKDOWN.
hm fair point, but again, this IS the coliseum forums. the forums are just like the news, with current events and new information happening right now as we speak in the lockdown/blast network community.
that being said, AT is a big issue that people have very strong opinions about as of recently (and to be honest, for a long time before just now).
i think talking about it is fine, to a certain extent. you're right about it getting out of control sometimes, but that's not to say that people shouldn't be TALKING about it anymore. the conversations should just try to stray from the "personal insults" ditch. that's my only problem with this argument.
i'm not an advocate of calling people "AT noob!"s in RLD, because you must factor in the fact that some players are
a) probably unskilled to the point they need AT
b) new to the game
c) too immature or young to understand what they're even doing/saying, or
d) all of the above.
i am, however, a strong advocate of voicing your opinion and having fair discussions about AT in the chat box or on forums. i'm sick of talking about AT in RLD matches and getting shot down because no one can provide valid counter-arguments, so they jump right to insults and /ignore.
overall though, it's getting a little old for me because, while i care about people being fair in game and playing on the same level as the others, i can't make myself look like an ass all day every day on forums and in game, just to prove that someone is unskilled.
This is the Coliseum, what do you expect people to talk about? You're taking it way too personally, especially on a game you claim to not even play and a mechanic you clearly don't care about. Bullpig only explained why they don't support AT, this supposed war you talk about doesn't exist. Honestly, people who hate the anti-AT camp rage way more. Pot and kettle.
Honestly, people who hate the anti-AT camp rage way more. They do? Yeah... Looks like I don't know much about this AT thing.
What I had always meant to say (type?) was that it gets really annoying and tiresome to have people go "AT noob!" or start the insults (from both sides). I understand there are reasons for and against AT, and yes, this IS the Coliseum, (again) what I mean is that people exaggerate in such a way (AT users, non-AT users, trolls, or anyone really) it can turn a LD match boring pretty fast. That's it, discussing anything is obviously fine, but they're not really discussing there. Sorry, I seem to keep sending the wrong message, and I'm probably being redundant right now, but the only thing I'm against here is that instead of ignoring insults from immature people (again, from either side) they just keep going and take it "way too personally".
And my apologies if this post doesn't make any sense, I didn't have enough time to think through what I was writing, and check the typos, grammar or whatever.
that's fine. and just a reminder, the community can range from 10 year olds to 30 year olds. you have to know who you're dealing with and take that into account. many immature players can't handle a loss so they resort to "AT noob!" or "i lagged! D:"
i don't, however, think that the entire anti-AT community is like this, but then again i've seen far too many posts to prove otherwise :P
I think that both the pro-ATers and anti-ATers are at fault here. While I won't blame AT for my shortcomings, I won't actively use it. My general opinion on auto target is that it shouldn't be removed, but instead changed to give people with bad internet connections and those who choose not to use it a fighting chance, because right now, the system itself only ever works in the favor of those with the least amount of ping.
By the way, I think that this bile and anger in the Lockdown community must stop. We can disagree and have a discussion, we can either throw feces at the wall. One leads to resolution, or at least a stimulating debate, while the other just smells utterly horrid. I'll leave you to decide on that.
I used to have 150 ping EU 250 US and didn't use AT.
And a lot of players have crappy conection and don't need their computers aiming for them.