Spiral Knights - The Great and Amazing(ly boring) Infobox Project

The Great and Amazing(ly boring) Infobox Project

26 replies [Last post]

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 01:16

Dracora-Speaking

The Great and Amazing(ly boring) Infobox Project

There seems to be some support for infoboxes around the wiki, based on in-game feedback and posts in various threads on this forum.

I'd like to propose a few changes to the general format of these:

The big fat names drive me nuts.

I want to reduce the headers to distinct "umbrella category" type things, like so:

Accessory Info (anything that registers as an "accessory" in the arsenal, most of these are reskins lol)
Costume Info (anything that registers as a "costume" in the arsenal, almost all of these are reskins lol)
Gear Info (anything that has the following: helmet, armor, shield, sword, handgun, bomb, trinket, reskins included)
-Battlesprite Info (battle sprites, reskins included)
Furniture Info
Item Info
-Material Info
-Usable Info (won't really be used)
NPC Info

I think that's all of 'em, regarding in-game things. Did I miss any? GuildInfo and Userinfo are different, we can talk about those later.

Why not say "armor info" for armor items and "helmet info" for helmets etc.? Well, I figure that people will want to know what's gear and what's not right away, and a while ago I set up a string that fills in that otherwise voidy space above the ToC with "blahblah is a 5-star ARSENAL TYPE." with a link. We could have this in the infobox...but links in headers look bad. So do empty spaces at the top of pages, which is why I want to do it this way. This way, we have a ton of info that is immediately revealed, not repeated, and not weirdly formatted.

A lot of the coding will be repetitive (or even the same with a switch) for these, I'm just talking about clarifying headers.

I've looked around wikis, gamer and non-gamer. While there's usually a nice super informative pic to the right, having big fat infobox headers (repetitively with the page title itself, mentioned in another thread on these forums) does not seem to be mandated.

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 11:33

Bopp

Monster

How about Monster Info or Monster Family Info?

How about Level Info, for stuff like Jelly Farm II or Jigsaw Valley?

I don't have an opinion about lumping equippable items under "Gear". If you think that it will work better, then do it. But see this next comment...

My only objection to the terminology is "Item Info". Most readers will think that "item" includes swords, shields, etc. And where do rarities go? Maybe the division you want is Equippable vs. Non-Equippable?

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 18:30

Dracora-Speaking

@Bopp

Oh yeah missions, been meaning to do those for ages....there's a lot more to this game than the peeps who cry for content realize...

regarding monsters...those pages are very consistently done, but there's several small errors throughout them that will take some time to fix. So I kind of don't want to touch those until this mountain (which I call Novaster's Mountain of Madness) of other projects is done.

How bout:
"quick info" for all headers? Or shrink the font?

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 19:47

Bopp

font

I don't have a strong opinion, but "Gear Info:" seems like a waste of space. So I'd go with the item name in a smaller font. Then again, that might be a waste of space too.

Maybe we'll have a better idea once we settle the content of the infoboxes. Maybe "At a glance" or "Key facts" would be good titles.

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 08:50

Dracora-Speaking

Okay

I've tweaked the accessoryinfo a bit.

Regarding the header, how's that look? (all non-unique acc pages are currently using it).

For things that actually have an icon and star level, I think moving this data into the body of the infobox would be fine.

I tested this font size with the (currently) longest name I could find (one of the gunner items), and it doesn't linebreak.

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 10:25

Bopp

example?

Is this an example? It looks fine.

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Barrel_Belly

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 14:42

Dracora-Speaking

@Bopp

yep!

Tue, 01/20/2015 - 02:08

Dracora-Speaking

@icons

It feels weird to just stick the icon in the infobox by itself. I've put it someplace else.

Check the Imperial Tricorne Page. (since it's a template a few other costume pages will have something similar until I clean them up to make sense). I have it so the icon only shows up if there's an icon in existence.

I feel like it reads well.

Thoughts? if you don't like, please have a suggestion. Like instead of broccoli, let's have ice cream! Don't just dislike broccoli.

Regarding this icon thing, don't worry about updating pages with it, since it's in a template, we can easily move it wherever we decide we want it, as long as it's within the template of course.

Tue, 01/20/2015 - 07:09

Bopp

I don't like icons in text

I'm not a fan of having an icon in the middle of a sentence. It makes the sentence harder to read. If the text spreads onto multiple lines, then the icon's size messes up the spacing between one line and the next.

I don't remember what you had before this change. But my suggestion is for the icon to be in the infobox, in the title area, on the left side. It would look good there (?). And the icon is one of those key aspects of the item that seems appropriate for infoboxing.

Tue, 01/20/2015 - 07:39

Dracora-Speaking

Bopp

Yes, that's where' it's always been. But things get squishy and really ugly in infoboxes with the long names, which is the issue this thread mostly discusses lately. I'd like suggestions about where else to put the icon, besides not in the sentence (because I also do not like that for paragraphs, but I don't mind it for single lines), or where it was before. So, new suggestions.

Tue, 01/20/2015 - 09:38

#10

Bopp

okay

I can understand not wanting to crowd the title part of the infobox.

And you've already rejected my idea in post #3 about "At a glance" or "Key facts"? That shorter text would address the problem in a different way.

How about having one row of the infobox for icon and classification (e.g. "Armor", "Accessory")? And then another row of the infobox for the entity's name (e.g. Imperial Tricorne)?

I'm not fixated on these ideas. I'm just trying to come up with clean ways to keep the icon in the infobox, because I feel that it should be there, if infoboxes are to fulfill their purpose at all.

Tue, 01/20/2015 - 09:50

#11

Dracora-Speaking

@Bopp

Infoboxes really should have the page title in the top for entities, most wikis (especially game wikis) do this. Not having the name in the header was a sort of minor thought... I don't think a non-title row for the name in the infobox is a good idea - hence the changing away from "quick info," "ITEM TYPE X info," "at a glance," "key facts," etc. And turning it into a smaller font, one that's still larger than the page text. Which we've agreed works. Now, where to put the icon... yes, icons should be in the infobox. I just needed to put the icon someplace I wouldn't forget it, but also remember that some items don't have a solid icon (accessories and recolored costumes don't have a single representative icon unless a wiki editor makes one).

A row with "arsenal info" is probably best, star info can go there too. I'll get back to that after...this accessory/color pattern project I've mentioned in another thread.

Wed, 01/21/2015 - 13:45

#12

Dracora-Speaking

Did Something

Compare the most recent versions of Steam Knight Mask and Metal Sonic Mask. The icon is there being all functional and whatnot, and also isn't in the way of anything else, so, how's this feel? (it could work easily for combat gear too). I like "negative" data - basically, saying that something isn't something, so users aren't left looking for if something is in an official set or not.

Also, thinking about taking out "group" and "form" since this isn't "official" information and is more work for editors - this info can easily just be viewed in the sortable main list, and we only need one note on the main list saying something isn't official. I want to cram info into Infoboxes, but I want to do so in a formal capacity.

EDIT: yep I'm just gonna take out "unofficial" info, or information that's just there for user benefit and not actually in-game. This information will still be available of course, just not in the infoboxes.

Thu, 01/22/2015 - 22:17

#13

Dracora-Speaking

It's been some time

After working with the infobox for several days, I'm really liking the icon in the set information section - it fits, it functions, and it lets users know without a doubt whether or not the item is part of an official set. But I'm sugarcoating it cause I'm biased (I also can't find any problems with it really). Thoughts?

Fri, 01/23/2015 - 07:13

#14

Bopp

looks great

I'm not sure that this is the most sensible place to put the icon, but it looks great there, so keep it.

Fri, 01/23/2015 - 19:56

#15

Dracora-Speaking

Coo

If there are no "better" suggestions or objections from other users/Bopp/my brain within, say, a week or so, I'll make these changes for other infoboxes where relevant. Mostly gear items. Especially those gunner armor/helmets >,..,>

Then design discussion on other currently nonexistent infoboxes, like missioninfo, will begin, stay tuned.

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 15:25

#16

Dracora-Speaking

Some progress

Please take a look at the discussion page of heart of ice and give feedback on the infobox and general page format (NOT the lack of strategic/summary content per TOC section). Good? Bad? Add? Subtract? Is the ToC easy to use? Compare it to the format (NOT the bulk content) of the Heart of Ice page.

Another live example is on the March of the Tortodrones (Mission) page.

This project also ties into an exploration and mapping project we are working on with HexZyle's help.

Progress on weapon infoboxes can be tracked in another thread here.

Other infoboxes are on hold.

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 17:05

#17

Bopp

looks fine

It looks fine. Is the presence of four floors part of this reformatting? Listing the mission lobby as a level is not commonly done. I don't know how many missions such a change would affect.

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 19:25

#18

Dracora-Speaking

@Bopp

Yes, it is part of the formatting, so the ToC links go in order from start to finish in the runthrough section. For convenience, the number of combat floors is in the infobox.

Yes, there are several different kinds of "lobby" (some with alch machines, some without, some unique, but mostly that Rank one with Basil) - this data matters to several users I know, mostly to plan ahead and save load screens, but sometimes to craft. And it's a part of the mission, so it's a physical entity that needs documentation. There will be a lot of repeats, yes, but we can use the same image, hurray.

It would affect all missions. It's not commonly done because most mission pages are currently free format (if they exist at all, many missions just don't have pages right now, hence this project). Onox792 does a great job listing monsters - we can make the rest of the pages of this type consistent too.

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 20:10

#19

Slice-And-Impale

Does not approve

The title should be the title. The name of the item. Put "Gear Info" as a subtitle or something.

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 20:14

#20

Dracora-Speaking

Slice-And-Impale

@Slice-And-Impale thanks for feedback, though it is a bit late - please give feedback on most recent versions (unless you're in agreement with a previous format which is not the case). We have been going with title as title.

Tue, 03/31/2015 - 10:44

#21

Dracora-Speaking

*sigh*

I can't seem to resolve an issue with the coding of ArmorInfo's category parameters. I've put in a shoddy switch so the wiki doesn't have a ton of weird/empty entries for all relevant items. This switch, 1="new" or 1="old" will be entirely removed once issues are resolved. Could someone look into this, please? (also help implementing these changes we seem to all want would be great - once the issues are resolved, template documentation will be completed so help can be requested without too many "okay I will help but what do I do?"). If you start helping, be prepared to edit the wiki for many hours, as there are many many items and we want them all to be updated quickly so players aren't confused by different entries for items that seem to be the same type of item. I had some wonderful help with implementing weaponinfo on all the weapon pages, and feeling the sluggish speed of doing solowork again is like eating melted icecream. I don't like asking for help but man, this is a lot of icecream, and daylight's burnin, and it seems like we all want this icecream, so I shouldn't eat it by myself.

Link to summary of issue(s)

Please hold of helping until issues are resolved and documentation is in place. Unless...

If you are confident and want to help, you can edit individual pages before the issues are resolved, just know that some of the categories will not be visible until the template is fixed.

What I would suggest doing, if you want to help, is going through all the (armor and helmet) items using 1=new using the Vog Cub Coat/Cap as an example, then after all those items are done, remove the new/old switch from the template coding (retaining only the "new" parameters), and then removing "1=new" from individual pages. This keeps information published without the panic of a time crunch as we make changes. I'm doing it this way instead of using an entirely different template, for reasons stated in the link above. If you do help implement, remove repeated set info on the page itself whenever it occurs, unless the item is in a bundle or something weird like that... use the Ignition Armor page for example of what to do there. Also remove repeated categories on individual pages that the template takes care of.

We will be adding gallery stuff later, like we did for the weapon page overhaul. But that's down the road after these infobox changes, and after we finish the weapon pages (we are finished with the infobox part of the weapon pages).

Tue, 03/31/2015 - 10:46

#22

Bopp

a little time

I don't have time to mount a massive campaign of sweeping changes. But I do have time to look at a technical issue on a template. But I don't understand what the issue is. (Yes, I've looked at the template and its /doc page.)

Tue, 03/31/2015 - 15:18

#23

Dracora-Speaking

Probrem

Beyond weakness 1 and status 1, the categories fail to show up (the weaknesses will be red because weakness categories have not been created yet). These could also be a bit cleaner since they're repetitive. The issue is extremely apparent with implementation, and not so much with just looking at the code (unless someone with flawvision looks at it, like my mother when I tried to clean up a room as a child). For items like chaos cloak or dragon scale mail, the issue rears its head, but for items with only a single status, it's not an issue.

Because idk what's missing for the switches. A bracket somewhere? Perhaps it should be #if, or eq, instead?

Wed, 04/01/2015 - 09:00

#24

Dracora-Speaking

Resolved

Issues are resolved. Using slightly chunky code, but it gets the job done - we don't have many options. Thank you Raven for taking a look at it and fixing.

Wed, 04/01/2015 - 12:13

#25

Bopp

sorry

Sorry for not actually helping at all on this one. Life is busy. Good day to you.

Wed, 04/01/2015 - 14:38

#26

Dracora-Speaking

@Bopp

You can still mindlessly fill out the armorinfo for individual item pages and witness your brain leaking out of your ears. Er I mean you can enjoy some ice cream that's left~!

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The Great and Amazing(ly boring) Infobox Project