If they're gonna set a precedent of allowing spiralspy to pass, they might as well expect people to assume it's safe to post tamer things that get nuked then, and they'll be clueless to as of why people get salty. I can't mind read...
SpiralSpy XML to OBJ
Mon, 01/19/2015 - 23:30
#52
Mon, 01/19/2015 - 21:58
#53
@Petater
That's their problem, then. Their rules, their prerogative, their business. If they're okay with SpiralSpy, then SpiralSpy is okay. The greater issue is with how they choose their targets, in which case this thread isn't appropriate for that. :P
Mon, 01/19/2015 - 22:14
#54
At least we're not denying anymore spiralspy breaks tos and it's just selective enforcement giving owe to the saltiness that was brought up earlier, and we're agreeing with it now. If they like people getting salty from posting gray area stuff due to spiralspy posts existing still, then so be it.
Mon, 01/19/2015 - 22:14
#55
@Petater
Philosophical worldviews make all the difference at this point.
I believe that people are inherently selfish. Given the choice and the ability to get away with it, they will do anything and everything that satisfies them. Thus, the most rational conclusion from this worldview is that OOO and Spiral Knights will usually do whatever serves their interests. They don't care about pissing people off. They care about themselves. If letting others have fun serves their interests, they'll allow it; that's why Spiral Spy is permitted to continue. If cracking down on helpful people will eliminate any risk to their interests, they'll crack down on it. Chances are, something in that Steam business stepped on their interests, so they enforced the ToS to the fullest. We just don't know what those interests are, so it just looks like they're doing it to make people mad.
Mon, 01/19/2015 - 23:29
#56
I give up on pleasing them then.
Tue, 01/20/2015 - 01:37
#57
I was so excited when I saw
I was so excited when I saw the replies on this thread but then......
Can you idiots please take your pointless argument elsewhere. Make a new thread about it for gods sake just don't spoil this site like this. Whenever you freaks see something controversial, you jump on it like hungry dogs jumping at food. Seriously, I hope this isn't part of your morning breakfast.
Let me just break this to you guys. Whatever the heck you argue about, it won't reach a conclusion. You'll only end up realizing how stupid it was of you to even bother. Also, congratulations Petater for the [scrapbucket] you caused.
Tue, 01/20/2015 - 02:39
#58
I like to think that OOO pretend most of this stuff doesn't happen because if they were aware, it could bring them legal consequences when seriously bad stuff is done and people can defend themselves with "but this thing was allowed even though you knew" and because stuff like Spiral Spy is a huge asset to the community. Just look at stuff like this or think about all the amazing costume design people can do without lurking the AH for days or spending millions of crowns.
Either way, I agree with Dahall that this has gone a bit far. I'm all for discussions like these but in the end I don't think they're gonna end up contributing anything and they deserve their own threads if they derail this much.
Tue, 01/20/2015 - 15:15
#59
Fixes
Alright, I've managed to get a working version of this set to go! Hooray! ( http://www.mediafire.com/download/zw1b8wvvh0n8udc )
By the way, if you wanna talk to me directly, just e-mail me: subzeroxan@gmail.com
PROBLEMS IN OLD VERSION:
Random vertex order:
1) I did the incorrect format: Instead of f (tri1) (tri2) (tri3), I had stuff I wasn't even using.
2) I did not get the indices properly, causing the errors.
FIXES:
1) I rewrote the WHOLE triangle grabbing function
2) I moved the handling of indices and triangles to a separate class.
3) To make it easier on me, I had it order the TRIANGLES in a specific order, then just count up on the face indices (f 1 2 3 ... f 4 5 6 ... f 7 8 9 ... so on)
PLANS:
When I am set to go, I plan to move to an actual XML reader instead of string manipulation.
By the way, I'm SO SO SO sorry I didn't have this working.
Tue, 01/20/2015 - 14:51
#60
I feel like a jerk for saying this since you probably realise it yourself but...
When I am set to go, I plan to move to an actual XML reader instead of string manipulation.
You should've done this in the first place. If you're working with a specific data format, always use what's intended to manipulate it from the start. It'll save you a lot of time spent refactoring, crying about non-functional code, solving complex problems, and ultimately rewriting with a proper interpretation method.
Don't worry about it not working, anyway! We have patience and you owe us nothing. Take your time, we love what you've done anyway!
Tue, 01/20/2015 - 15:16
#61
@Krabob-Wiki
Well, the program is working now. Have fun with your models!
In future updates, I will add bone data, textures, and anything else that SK models seem to have. Look forward to that.
Tue, 01/20/2015 - 15:53
#62
So I attempted to try your tool and it seems to have given me an error on 3DS Max:
ERROR - Invalid vertex index
The previous one worked perfectly fine aside from vertexes but yeah. Unless it's just me?
Tue, 01/20/2015 - 15:54
#63
Reply
Yeah yeah, I goofed again. I messed up the index.
Refer to the original post (by me, the first one, ya know?) for the updated DL link
Wed, 01/21/2015 - 02:17
#64
Thanks again Xanthicdragon!
I have tried this and it works without flaws. I give you both my thumb ups 👍👍
Wed, 01/21/2015 - 11:40
#65
Proof of concept Magma Driver render
Didn't care for manually mapping the texture so I just threw on some simple materials and rendered.
Thu, 01/22/2015 - 10:29
#66
Updates
So I have a confession to make:
I used string manipulation instead of an XML reader. Absolutely STUPID decision, right? Haha.
In future updates, I plan on adding:
A file open and save feature
Texture selection tool
To actually use an XML reader (which will DRASTICALLY increase conversion speed)
As of now, I am satisfied with it working, but very dissatisfied at its missing abilities.
NOTE:
The way textures work in these models is NOT like an actual mapping. It works more like the old Minecraft skins where coords X-Y to X2-Y2 are the texture for the ______ part. You can NOT manually apply the given game textures.
Thu, 01/22/2015 - 10:54
#67
I have a suggestion feature! Write something that allows dragging and dropping files onto the .bat or whatever one uses to run it to automatically work with that file.
Can't say I understand how textures work, but it sounds like that's a shame. I should very much have liked doing some proper renders and whatnot. Will there be a way to work with the textures in the future, or is it completely impossible for you?
Thu, 01/22/2015 - 13:12
#68
Reply
Well, Krabob, textures will DEFINITELY not be impossible. I've been designing a plan for getting them working. Here it is:
1) Look at SpiralSpy source code
1a) Gather information on how texture mapping works and in what class(es) it does so in.
2) Utilize a PNG reading class (By chance one that SpiralSpy uses?) and attempt to get the coords of each pixel
3) Utilize a standalone image and MTL, then use the extra arguments to set the texture coords in the actual OBJ.
This plan should work very well if I can execute it properly and code it properly.
Step 3 would make the OBJ's mapping section (f 1 2 3 ...) look like this:
f index_1/pixel_coord_X index_2/pixel_coord_Y index_3/pixel_coord_Z (Now, is this one zero or not zero?)
So, in that case, it shouldn't be too hard.
Tue, 02/17/2015 - 03:32
#70
Has there been any updates to
Has there been any updates to this?
Wed, 02/18/2015 - 15:09
#71
...
No, New, there hasn't been any yet.
Wed, 02/25/2015 - 13:16
#72
Updates
I've been busy with other stuff (like school), so yeah, I haven't released many updates.
Is there something you have in mind that you think should be added?
Thu, 02/26/2015 - 03:03
#73
Haven't we all been! I'm most interested in functioning with textures as well as bone structure, or whatever it was called. Getting the vertices to stay together. If you didn't implement that already, that is. I can't remember.
Thu, 02/26/2015 - 12:09
#74
Vertices
The vertices CAN stay together. I am unsure of what this feature is called elsewhere, but for what I know on Blender, you can go into edit mode, select all of the vertices, and click "Remove doubles". I don't think there's a way to get this working otherwise.
As for textures, well, they're just a bit ahead of my knowledge. They aren't a texture that "folds" over the mesh, but instead it has sections of the texture that are assigned to go to a position on set faces. I will be sure to look at how to do this.
Fri, 02/27/2015 - 04:18
#75
Yeah, smashing together vertices is very easy in any proper 3d modeling program. Good luck with the textures!
Mon, 03/23/2015 - 17:02
#76
Updates
Still working on textures, but I just released an update that makes it not rely on a shell or batch program.
Wed, 03/25/2015 - 08:14
#77
Cool! Reminds me, I should work on my log manager thingy and at least get the backend fully done.
Fri, 04/03/2015 - 08:21
#78
.
@Krakob: Sounds like a handy tool for guild owners. Hopefully you can get that done!
Otherwise, I am throwing a few ideas around in my head about textures:
1) Since reading SpiralSpy's code hasn't gotten me too far (since it's just so complex), I may need to take a break from that.
2) OBJs can move texture coordinates, however I have learned that to do it as detailed as a model like this, I'd need some universal format that has textures inside of it (as opposed to the OBJ where it relies on an MTL to have textures). I've been looking at other formats that utilize "raw-text" for this reason.
3) As said earlier, I am busy with school. I really have no estimated time that this update will arrive.
I greatly thank you all for your patience with this update.
Sat, 07/18/2015 - 05:15
#79
Forked the GitHub repository and made a release, which can be found here. It's not an update but I wanted to mirror it in case the Mediafire download becomes unavailable, which would be troublesome in case OP has gone missing which strikes me as very possible.
Should they ever return, I suggest they use their GitHub repo for both source and release.
Sat, 08/22/2015 - 09:46
#80
For those of you waiting on
For those of you waiting on it, I am starting to get back to work on this project. I've been thinking about stuff here and there.
If any major breakthroughs are achieved (Specifically textures), I'll make a new forum post as well as update this one.
I think I understand now why I'm feeling frustrated; your underlying assumptions about laws and rules differ from mine.
First off, I highly recommend perusing the thread Skepticraven linked to. They discuss the matter in depth. If you haven't reached the same conclusion Deleted-Knight did after reading all the way through (and it's only 9 posts), then the following is for you.
You're not getting the big picture here. Spiral Knights and its creators are here primarily for us to have fun and enjoy ourselves. And since MMOs depend almost solely on their players for content (players ARE the content!), they let their players create fan works for them, since that fosters and encourages longevity. While the ToS seems to explicitly prohibit fan works (go read it for yourself), actually enforcing that would be counter-productive.
In fact, the individual rules contained in the Terms of Service aren't SUPPOSED to be enforced to the letter That's not the point of the Terms of Service. The point of the ToS is to give Spiral Knights the FREEDOM to enforce it to the letter if need be. This is where you'll need to learn this concept: whoever makes the rules gets to decide how they are enforced. This should be obvious, but it's relevant to the matter at hand. The GMs indicated in very clear terms that they will not pursue action against SpiralSpy. Is this selective enforcement? Sure it is! And that's their prerogative. It's none of your business.
Furthermore, their selective enforcement of the ToS isn't a bad thing, as you have suggested. Like I said, the ToS isn't designed to be enforced to the letter. It is designed to give the creators the freedom to enforce it to the letter.
So let's reconstruct the big picture I wanted you to see. Suppose you're Nick, the creator of Spiral Knights, and you want to make a game that everyone can have fun with while giving yourself the legal ability to deal with troublemakers. What can you do? Why, you'd create the Terms of Service, of course! And you'd then make sure that your game masters know how and when to enforce it so as not to infringe on harmless fun.
Are you starting to see my point?