Spiral Knights - Revamping Lockdown Shield Classes

Revamping Lockdown Shield Classes

13 replies [Last post]

Sat, 02/21/2015 - 21:33

Deleted-Knight

I'm not putting this in the suggestions because I'm anticipating it would be shot down really fast. I want to see other people's thoughts.

Striker Shield:
Base Health: 2
Universal Attack Speed Increase: Very High
Universal Attack Damage Decrease: High
Universal Charge Time Increase: Med

Shield Ability:
Same as it is now, but recharges gradually like Recon/Guardian shield instead of instant regeneration.

Guardian Shield:
Base Health: 20
Movement Speed Decrease: Med
Universal Attack Speed Decrease: High
Universal Attack Damage Increase: Very High

Shield Ability:
Same large force field shield that protects allies except it no longer heals. Instead, the guardian shield does not flinch when hit, so it effectively makes the guardian untouchable until the shield breaks.

Recon Shield:
Base Health: 10
Universal Status Resist: Med
Universal Attack Speed Decrease: Med
Universal Charge Time Decrease: Med

Shield Ability:
Same invisibility cloak, but instead of death-marking, the radar breaks the shield of any enemy that it sweeps over (after a warning sweep). Every time it sweeps over an ally, the teammate gains 0.5 heart.

Sun, 02/22/2015 - 00:27

Reto-Da-Liz

Sun, 02/22/2015 - 03:13

Krakob

Bonuses are far too polarised. Putting healing on Recon makes no sense, imo. LD would be pretty fine if they'd just nerf/remove trinkets. This would just make the game even more about having trinkets/OP UVs or being worthless and that would suck.

Sun, 02/22/2015 - 06:06

Dreamless-Reaper

Mhh.

Classes don't need any change in LD,as Krabob said having free trinkets slot in LD would be pretty much great for beginners so that they at least don't die in 1 hit(removing at from ld would be nice too)

But for guardians i would want a shield bash skill which based on the amount of hits the bash does it will give a moderate stun.

Sun, 02/22/2015 - 10:47

Krakob

No, I never said classes don't need changes. What I said is that the most important change would be if OOO were to remove/nerf trinkets. I doubt classes would be awfully balanced 3 months after such a change, as the meta would have adapted and new flaws would surely have become apparent.

Sun, 02/22/2015 - 17:22

Thebronzemonsta

2open striker

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 13:07

Holy-Nightmare

.....

I would like to see how this would work but I'm fairly certain Trinkets would still unbalance PVP.

PVP needs a massive revamp, trinkets are just the beginning.

Mon, 02/23/2015 - 14:18

Deleted-Knight

I guess I should explain my choices

As Krakob pointed out, I pushed each class' specialty to the extreme so no one class can "rule them all" given the right equipment.

Strikers - Specialize in harassment and capturing points. With full Black Kat set, you can reach MSI MED, ASI VH, and DMG H without any UVs. However, you would still only have half the health of a Guardian. If you want to max out damage, you are forced to sacrifice a health trinket. More firepower makes you more frail.

Guardians - Specialize in clearing and holding points. Without any extra damage buffs, you are guaranteed to have more damage bonus than any striker with two heart trinkets, and you naturally have more bulk. Attack speed decrease can be mitigated with UV. Movement speed decrease can be mitigated with Mercurial or Black Kat. Combined with a shield that cancels flinching, a Guardian should be able to shut down any striker.

Recon - Specializes in support and Guardian killing. Break the shield of an guardian then process to wreck it with mind games. Since Guardians have a greater attack speed penalty, this shouldn't be too hard. Also, the CTR aids mist-bombs (mist bomb + no Guardian shield = happy recon). Defensively you can travel with a guardian and secretly heal it under cloak as it fights off strikers.

Wed, 02/25/2015 - 13:12

Seiran

..?

Weird that you think the chain is:

Guardian > Striker > Recon > Guardian

Though I guess that'd be in your rebalanced version.

The intent I imagined from the devs for lockdown was:
Striker > Guardian > Recon > Striker

- Striker as a highly mobile class to get in strong melee hits that can break down a guard shield quickly, but has low health/defense and bombing ability, meaning it can't hold a point for long, alone.
- Guardian shield provides team value with shield/bombs, and protects against surprise attacks and status bombs (Recon).
- Recon gets surprise attack/first hit with long reach and statuses from guns, defense removal with deathmark, quick-charging status bombs that can block movements, all while giving a first-hit advantage on the lower-health Strikers.

As far as trinkets/armor bonuses go, they allow those classes to break out of those roles and cover weaknesses:
- Striker with health makes it less susceptible to getting ganked
- Guardian with gun or sword speed/damage makes it a spiky turtle
- Recon with more offensive ability makes it more viable to use in close range

The main issue I saw was the non-rarity of the top-tier armor pieces: it became way too easy to stack max damage and just end up adding health trinkets to not waste stats.

But endgame gear aside, I still can't understand why a Recon for example would add health trinkets over something like ASI/DMG if it wasn't already maxed. If you hit like a sock and give yourself more health, you'll still hit like a sock.

When I was more active, I stuck to my imagined intent for Recon and played it as such: I used justifier set, 2 damage trinkets, and a rotation of guns/status bombs to cover different situations - and as far as I saw, a lot of complaints about Lockdown just seemed so... foreign lol.

Wed, 02/25/2015 - 16:45

Valtiros

I totally aggree with Seiran,

I totally aggree with Seiran, the chain is : Striker > Guardian > Recon > Striker

Wed, 02/25/2015 - 19:36

#10

Nertgvv

I don't think the sheild are good

I don't think the sheild are good at all

Just do REMOVE TRINKETS
People that have money get 2x penta-heart/true love and the people that don't have money (Hi, guys) have to get rekt (though I don't get rekt much, I still only deal 4kdmg as my average)

Wed, 02/25/2015 - 21:50

#11

Deleted-Knight

I know what the chain is right now. What I posted previously was justification for my new shield classes.

The current shield classes aren't well balanced. It doesn't matter what OOO intended them to be. Anything a Guardian/Recon can do, a Striker has an equivalent.

Shield to avoid taking damage -> Dodge with superior speed.
Heal oneself -> Quickly run to heart pad, heal, then return. On most maps, this heals faster than a guardian can and with less risk.
Protect/heal allies-> Quickly eliminate enemies so they can't be on the field to threaten allies in the first place.
Ambush with invisibility -> Ambush with super speed from off screen.
Deathmark enemies for allies -> Mob enemies with allies.
Bomb -> CTR Very High + Chaos = problem solved.
Gun -> Great maneuverability with superior speed.
Sword -> Do you have to ask?
Bomb walking -> Single High UV on armor with natural resist.
Capturing points -> Can move between points faster.
Stalling -> Dance around with boost, and use dash when in a pinch and boost is out.

Note that Strikers can apply these against ANY class, whereas guardians and recons may struggle to do so against one of the other classes.

Thu, 02/26/2015 - 13:55

#12

Momofuku

The last update to Lockdown was 10 months ago. Before that, it was December of 2013. Lockdown mechanics are unlikely to be changed.

That said, all I would like to see is an across the board health increase for all classes. So that even with health trinkets, everyone generally lives longer. +12 pips across the board for all classes. It is a very unpleasant experience for new people / trinketless people to join in to "check things out" and be instant killed by a GF double swing.

Sat, 02/28/2015 - 02:14

#13

Reto-Da-Liz

@everyone: Try to be constructive instead of just hopping onto the "REMOVE TRINKETS!!1!111!1" bandwagon.
One very simple thing I always thought about, was to change the fixed value of hp given from trinkets into percentages.

Example:
Current state of things: Penta Heart Trinket: +6 pips of hp
Proposed change: Penta Heart Trinket: +20% hp
Leaving aside the percentage I chose (it's just an example), this change would bring some more balance. Trinkets are not wrong, nor overpowered. The simple fact is that strikers (the best out of the 3 classes) benefits the most from pentas (the best out of the 6152873654 trinkets). Pentas simply need a small tweak (which won't happen anyway), that is all.

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Revamping Lockdown Shield Classes