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Advice: Which gun to pair with heavy sword style.

16 replies [Last post]
Thu, 06/09/2011 - 14:14
Slapjack

Ok, so I've been through several swords, guns, and bombs now and I think I've finally decided that I want to go with the heavy sword set for now, and I am curently using a Kamarin. My question is, after realizing how horrible (imo) the autogun or any gun that makes you stationary when you fire is with a heavy sword set, I can't decide what gun to use while I work torwards getting the Antigua series. Personally I think it should be a Cryotech Alchemer or a Blaster, the cryo for the freeze effect and the blaster because mobility and shot power/number of shots before reload seems nice.

Any advice? Thanks.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 14:51
#1
Dirty-Harry's picture
Dirty-Harry
Doesn't matter

What gun compliments the sword doesn't depend on the speed of the sword, but more on what type of sword it is. If you have a shadow damaging sword then don't use a shadow damaging gun.

Since the Kamarin is normal damaging you are pretty much free to any choice you want. There are many threads explaining what guns are good and what to avoid, so if you want to know more go search those up.
Anyways here's a summary of some of the threads: Avoid antiguas, split type damage and unable to hit dodging enemies. Avoid autoguns, you'd be better off with swords. Cryotech and Voltech are the most useful alchemers. Iron Slug and Valiance are both good normal damaging guns. Magnus lines stop lower level wolvers from dodging

Though if you are only using one gun, the Argent Peacemaker isn't a bad choice since you can use it for Citadel and against Vana.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 14:55
#2
Mohandar's picture
Mohandar
Antigua or Alchemer

The pepperboxes and autoguns are usable, but for the purposes you want (kiting, etc.), there are two ways to go about this: Antigua or Alchemer.

Antigua: This line provides the illusion of DPS, but it really isn't that great. The sole exception is when using the Silversix line against Undead; some say the Firestorm Citadel is reason enough to get it. I used to be a big fan of the Silversix because it is an extremely mobile gun (the six shot clip means easier to kite and shield while putting out a constant stream of damage), and it doubles as an excellent weedwhacker and pickaxe. I've heard the Blackhawk line is less useful, due to enemy dodging mechanics and weaknesses.

Alchemer: Namely, the fire, ice and shock alchemers- they inflict some useful status effect, and at 4* and higher, they deal much more damage to mobs in general than the Silversix. Fire especially can put out a lot of damage, but personally I like the shock gun. The bullets on all alchemers will bounce around, inflicting additional damage; in a tightly packed mob, it can be very effective. Because they are pure elemental, they will readily make short work of zombies and most constructs. The main thing is you will have to decided between shot-shot-reload (when there is lots of room) or shot-pause-shot-pause (when conditions are more cramped) so that you can put up your shield in a hurry. The other two alchemers, Shadow and Prisma (pure elemental), don't inflict status effects, and the former suffers from the same issue as the Blackhawk.

I would recommend against the Blaster line because in general, you should tailor your damage type to whatever you are fighting. This is especially true of guns, which already suffer from a low DPS relative to swords and bombs. However, I wouldn't fault you for running a Valiance either- it is easy to obtain, and a versatile gun. It's just that in any given scenario where I would pull out a gun, a Silversix or alchemer will do better than a Blaster.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 14:58
#3
Njthug's picture
Njthug
So Seductive

Well I would recommend a fast gun since I like to play with slow sword sets (Sealed Sword Series), but sometimes I fight monsters which I dont want to be that close to so I will take out my gun if I have it equipped to fend them off and run away as well like a little girl so I recommend the alch series.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 21:11
#4
Slapjack
Thanks guys, very helpful

Thanks guys, very helpful comments! I never considered the damage type, I'm new to the game. Makes sense to make sure I have a damage option if something resists something else, especially if I'm just running 2 weapon slots at the moment.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 22:31
#5
Shinko
Legacy Username
Hrm

No, the autogun line is not good to pair with a heavy sword. The autogun is basically a heavy gun and so pairing it with a heavy sword will make your character feel slow and unwieldy as others have said. Guns are pretty situational. For most guns, if the enemy you're shooting at isn't weak to its element (even if it resists your sword), you're probably better off just slashing it. So since you don't want to go pure gunslinger and give yourself the ability to do extra damage all the time by changing guns I would suggest one of the moderate guns which will deal average damage to just about every enemy.

The Antigua line is one of the good ones. The split damage means that the guns in the antigua line are nearly always dealing low damage, and on a few enemy types they'll deal high damage. This isn't bad though because even when enemies resist the guns of the antigua line you will still do decent damage. In this way the antigua line is a bit like normal damage with a bit more variance (the variance is a bit on the weakened side though, but that's balanced by the number of shots you have in a clip).

The Blaster line which deals normal damage is always a good sidearm too. Normal damage means you don't have to worry about weaknesses, status effects, and oilers. If you wanna shot an enemy, just take out the gun and shoot it.

If you want a gun just to deal with gun puppies and trees then I suggest you get one of the alchemer series (but not the cryo). These guns will deal good damage to gun puppies and trees which will make your life easier.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 22:41
#6
Aziraphaile
Legacy Username
If you're just running two

If you're just running two slots, your best option honestly is probably one of the status inflicting Alchemers. It's elemental, so it'll make short work of mechanical and undead mobs. The only mobs that are resistant to it are mobs you generally don't want to shoot at in the first place.

The Volt Alchemer (shock) is a good option because it won't conflict with a Bomber's Haze lines. Many bombers run the fiery or freezing vaporisers (and their higher tier equivalents), and Fire cancels Freeze, and vice versa. The Firo Alchemer (fire) is probably the best damage though, overall.

Personally, I run with a Khorovod (step up from your Kamarin) right now, and 2 guns which I interchange depending on the strata. I actually chose to run with a Cryo Driver, mostly because I didn't want to accidentally set Oilers on fire or supercharge any Quicksilvers. If you go with one of the other two options, keep an eye out for them, because your ricochet shots can inflict status ailments just the same as the main charge. I also have a Shadow Driver, which is pretty awesome for tearing slimes apart, and works pretty well on Gremlins if you can corner them. It's useful particularly for sniping their healers in arena levels. The ricochet on the 4* alchemer line guns is pretty useful too, and you can get a surprising amount of damage if you're up against packs of enemies. Naturally I also have an Antigua, and I'll probably be going down the Silversix line as soon as I have CE and Basil cooperates with me and coughs up the recipe.

The real issue with the Silversix and Blackhawk guns is that not only do they split damage types, but they split it between two special damage types. Most split damage weapons inflict Normal damage and something else. The Antigua upgrades are either Piercing/Elemental, or Piercing/Shadow. Basically, at least half of the stuff that's weak to either type will actually resist the other type, so you only get half-decent damage when your target is weak to one type and neutral to the other. And in that scenario, you'd get more damage out of the appropriate pure-typed weapon. What makes them good is that you have 6 shots before you go into a reload animation, so it's much easier to shield part way through your clip. One of my big issues with the Alchemer line guns is the 2-shot clip, which makes it very easy to put yourself in a situation where you suddenly need to shield, but can't because you're busy reloading.

Surprisingly, I also have a Strike Needle, which is the 4* piercing autogun. Yes, not being able to move while firing is a pain, but 99% of the stuff that's weak to piercing damage dodges bullets quite well anyhow, so I don't use it very often. Mostly on Fiends, and not the main Devilite line. It does a number on Trojans if someone else has their attention. It's also surprisingly effective on Greavers, mostly because you can't really kite them, and they're all up in your face anyhow. I've certainly had better luck taking them on with the Strike Needle than with my Khorovod.

I wouldn't actually recommend you get one, by the way. I happen to enjoy using mine in certain situations, but I'll admit I could just as easily use something sharp and heavy instead. If you can actually stand using an auto-gun at all, the Pepperbox line makes more sense, being normal damage with fire status. Neither is a particularly good gun though.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 07:13
#7
Gigafreak
Legacy Username
Against Greavers and Trojans

Against Greavers and Trojans you might want to think about the Snarble Barb. Its charged attack sprays Piercing needles, and you can still use it to hit Wolvers and Devilites in melee.

The Alchemer series is pretty useful in general. Firotech allows you to burn away the enemy's health as you constantly retreat (a useful tactic known as "kiting"), Cryotech stops their advance (and sets them up for a teammate to whomp them with charged attacks), and Voltech does a nice job of an in-between role with minor periodic damage but also a periodic flinching effect. Prismatech is not worth getting; Shadowtech has only its different damage type going for it.

There's a few monsters to be aware of though. If you see a dark shiny slime that moves about with a sort of "stuttering, squirting, sliding" motion, that's an Oiler. They recover health and become more danger when set on fire. If you see a light, silvery-shiny slime (looks like an animate puddle of mercury), that's a Quicksilver. They become unstoppable, indestructible, deathmachines when electrified. Thankfully, both of these are really slippery and can be swatted away with your sword... unless it's an electrified Quicksilver. They're invulnerable until Shock wears off (though they can Shock each other. And in Tier 3, shock themselves spontaneously.)

And, of course, you can't inflict a status effect on most monsters that're based on that effect (Can't burn a fire zombie, can't freeze an ice retrode), etc.

The Alchemers have a two-shot combo. You cannot shield during the reload animation, so sometimes it's better to fire off just one shot at a time so you can shield when you need to.
2*: No Ricochet, slow bullet, charged shot splits into 2 regular bullets that bounce away from the impact
3*: Ricochets once, faster bullet, charged shot's split bullets can also ricochet
4*: Ricochets twice, faster bullet, charged shot's split bullets can also ricochet twice each
5*: Ricochets twice, faster bullet, charged shot splits into 4 bullets instead of just 2 (I have not seen this in action but I imagine it is glorious mayhem if you manage to shoot it into the center of a crowd)

The Alchemer's one of two guns whose charged attack actually does something worth charging up for. The other is the Autogun --> Pepperbox line (Pulls the enemy into your line of fire so the whole spray will hit the same target). The Needleshot line doesn't do this.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:35
#8
Aziraphaile
Legacy Username
Just for the record, I

Just for the record, I already have the 2 of the 4* alchemers, and I'd just like to say that you can get your "glorious mayhem" with a good crowd of enemies and just the regular shots, particularly if you're careful about which particular enemy in the crowd you aim for. The regular shots do not, however, ricochet twice, only the charged shots to that. The major difference between the 3* MkII's and the 4* Drivers is that instead of a chance to ricochet on the regular shots from the 3* gun, the shots from the 4* gun always do so. The 4* Drivers are also considerably more powerful than their earlier counterparts. There's a very small difference between the basic Alchemer and its MkII variant, damage-wise, but stepping up to the 4* Drivers makes a huge difference.

I take my Shadow Driver into the Jelly Palace, and I can actually compete with swordsmen in terms of killing power. The only thing that really stops me is other people scattering crowds with Calibur charge attacks and the like. (Granted, I have a set of Chroma armor I use for those levels too, which helps.) I've managed to convince a few groups to just leave the Jellies to me, and nail the constructs and such that it's not so good at hurting, and I can often kill 3-5 jellies in the time it takes the other 3 guys to kill 2 Lumbers. Bonus: we all take less damage, because they can concentrate on the harder targets without the stupid cubes getting in they way, and I can kite Jellies pretty much indefinitely if the other crap leaves me alone.

That said, I'm looking foward to the next JK gate, because I'm dying to see what the new patch did to those levels.

P.S. As a further aside, I'd also like to say that I actually picked up a Snarble Barb a few days ago for precisely the reasons he outlined. As much as I like gunnery, I've decided that I need to make a swordsman set, just so I have more options to choose from when I'm trying to pick out a decent loadout for a particular Strata.

There's also the fact that Gunnery armor isn't nearly as good at helping guns as Swordsman armor is at helping swords. (It also sucks as armor in general.) It's almost worth walking around with a bunch of sword bonuses for those times when I actually have to use one, and let the guns speak for themselves.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:50
#9
Travalanche
Legacy Username
Both of the autogun upgrade

Both of the autogun upgrade lines are excellent, the stationary shooting is not that bad when you consider their range and the sheer amount of DPS, I do slightly prefer the Blitz Needle over the Pepperbox though for tier 3. I also have the Argent peacemaker but after using the Blitz Needle it is hard to use it anymore.

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 11:19
#10
Shinko
Legacy Username
@Traval

How can you talk about the range of the pepperbox line o.O? That thing's got the shortest range of any gun in the arsenal. Both lines of the autogun have good DPS, but the caveat is that all 6 shots need to hit (well maybe 5/6, but still a good number of them). This is true for both lines. A shot which only hits once or twice from that gun is going to do horrible damage. In order to ensure a high hit shot you must stand very close to the enemy and hope that it does not dodge out of range of your spread. With the blitz it's a bit easier since it has a smaller spread and a longer range so you don't need to stand quite so close to get all 6 shots to hit. The autogun line is considered a heavy gun that requires you to stand still and fire (meaning you must time your shots so you have enough time to shoot and bring your shield back up before enemies counter attack). This is not a good setup for someone who's already got a slow attacking sword.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 11:18
#11
Gwaino's picture
Gwaino
Id say the Alchemizer line or

Id say the Alchemizer line or the Pulsar line.
Pulsar causa damage and knockback and of course the Shock status.
Alchemers causa status bouncing and variaty.
Then there is the Antigua line w its fast rate of fire and gremlin(Sentena) or undead(Argent Peacemaker) dmg boost med.
Also yoj can build up some good cr while gerring the necessary token to get the Antigua

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 12:12
#12
Awsome-Incarnate's picture
Awsome-Incarnate
The Question

I don't really think the question is damage type as to speed to make up for the swords. I recommend (as stated above)

-Blaster. Personally I always have enjoyed this gun and am sad to say I've stopped using it. Good speed and damage. I would wait until the *gunner update* comes out to make the 5* version, since it currently only does normal. A normal combo (having 2 weps that deal the same damage) is never really a good Idea as stated above.

- Alchemer. With good range and fast bullets, these guns are good for anyone to have. I think Shadow and Prismatech would generally be the best due to strong base damage. (no, not dur) I suppose the problem would be reload, but for that just look up advanced gunner techniques.

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Gunslinger_Guide
I don't know how to link, I'm a forum noob at heart.

I would say Antigua, but here's the damage question.
PIERCING Damage.
Gunner update? It's too faaaaaaaar.
"Now I gotta go it normal."
Patience.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 12:23
#13
Krakob's picture
Krakob

I don't think the OP still has the same question three years later but sure why not answer anyway.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 12:39
#14
Awsome-Incarnate's picture
Awsome-Incarnate
:P

Tis a slow day, at least for me.
And maybe someone else will find it useful.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 07:59
#15
Raunwynn's picture
Raunwynn
If you want one,

If you want one, multi-functional gun, nothing is better than Polaris.
It doesn't do as much damage as an alchemer in general, but it makes up for it with crowd control and turret busting.
Polaris and Flourish are the two safest weapons that I have played with.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 22:41
#16
Mini-The-Monsta's picture
Mini-The-Monsta
well

your best option is hail driver, second is storm, third is biohazard. relatively fast bullet with a cheap asi med uv. freeze opponent, kamarin charge. shock opponent, kamarin combo. poison opponent, tank hits all dat and dish back with some wide-range swipes, or watch them run and wait it off while you aim more in their direction.

since you said kamarin, i'll list the 3 stars for you tocheck out.

Cryotech Alchemer MK II
Voltech Alchemer MK II
Toxic Catalyzer
also give the freeze pulsar a try when its released. if it isnt a myth.

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