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Some Honest Business Advice to YOU OOO (not a rant)

21 replies [Last post]
Mon, 03/23/2015 - 20:59
Crashburnboom's picture
Crashburnboom

I know I may be banned (-for no reason-) for talking about this kinda stuff. And I'm (mostly) OK with it. I read the ToS.

This is not a goodbye. I still enjoy this game from time to time though, like MOST of your audience, has quietly (or not so quietly) began to move on to other games. In my case, I was introduced to Nintendo's games.

I'm not an entitled little jerk/kid*. I'm an educated philosopher* and student in one of the highest schools in the country. (But this, of course, means little on the internet, where lies are the reality.)
I WAS going to make a large rant about how you need to shape up OOO and some FREE, practical business advice, but I just decided not to. You've probably encountered, read (and IGNORED) a lot of them. I don't care about making that rant anymore. You probably might not care either.
I can't explain your predicament better than these guys: https://www.youtube.com/user/ExtraCreditz/featured

GO WATCH THESE VIDEOS;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhz9OXy86a0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QJVGtKPjNc
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Other topics of interest include these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9sHIQaFVC8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXA559KNopI

Go to SEGA. They are moving to the PC/App marketplace. ASK them for HELP. For more DEVELOPERS/Programers. Advertise yourself more.

P.S. Read the suggestions, your community cares (and has done a majority of the hypothetical for you)
P.S.S. Your responses to the community are pitiable. You are opening yourself to much criticism, but you probably know that already.

It's your choice, Three Rings. Only you can help yourself.
Edit; Added other important video
Edit 2: Changed "[ (^o^) Nintendo <3 (^o^) ]" to avoid possible console war?
Clarified "it"
* Depends on PoV and opinion. Definition and Context may vary.

Apologies for an angry tone. I am, after, a bit (angry).

Mon, 03/23/2015 - 21:27
#1
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↓

"I WAS going to make a large rant about how you need to shape up OOO and some FREE, practical business advice, but I just decided not to."

Great summary there. Maybe next time you make a thread you'll actually get to the topic you want to type out.

Mon, 03/23/2015 - 21:57
#2
Midnight-Dj's picture
Midnight-Dj
^best trash talker

@crashburnboom

This is OOO's respond to your advice:

The unenlightened gamers,
You cannot make the judgement call,
Give up your free will forever,
Your voices won't be heard at all.

Display your paypal,
While never begging for more contents,
And blindly swear your fan base,
Let your MMO control your mind,
LET YOUR MMO CONTROL YOUR SOUL!

Play in ignorance,
And purchase your shiny boxes,
When the cash and money is the real cause,
Thinking ceases and the thruth is lost!

Don't you worry,
UFSC will be exactly what you grind,
We give our players the promos they need,
The RNG shall succeed.

The fires of greed will burn the F2P,
So we will make mist tanks obsolete!
Breaking down the fabrics of reality!
Let UI update control what you see!

Let your MMO control your soul,
Let your MMO control your mind.
LET YOUR MMO CONTROL YOUR SOUL,
LET YOUR MMO CONTROL YOUR MIND!!!

Mon, 03/23/2015 - 23:25
#3
Meep-The-Bank's picture
Meep-The-Bank
Meep.

Well, in my opinion, I believe that OOO have to still sell energy at high prices because it's somewhat a source of income. Advertisements on this site and the wiki would just ruin the overall feel of Spiral Knights; some ads maybe luring their current roster of players to migrate to other games more easily.

Focusing on the game content as well, I'm quite sure that you won't need more than 42.5kce ($99 worth of energy) to get to 5*. If people are willing to pay $99 to easily become a 5* Vanguard within a couple of days, fine by me. However, they are others that do not wish to pay and want to work to become the best they can be. You can relate this scenario to life.

Sure, snooty kids with money might as well just be sent to independent schools and be able to attend college / university because of it + they have the money. Me and others as well, work hard in order to make it through school, even if you don't like it. But you learn through the educational process and be able to know more to be able to do more. And whilst college / university, you may be working part-time jobs, it's the experience that you get that is very different from those rich kids; you meet friends, become a part of groups and clubs.

In my opinion, I'd say that OOO should still be allowing people to buy an easy trip to Vanguard however make the length of the journey longer (which they're somewhat doing now), so that the experience and the incentive is better, just like the OCH DLC missions. I had fun (sometimes downs) playing with my friends to beat the levels without using sparks. I managed to get my WRH and DR on the first day I got it. The only problem was that some people see this as just another mission that needs to be done.

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 00:45
#4
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle

"I know I may be banned (-for no reason-)"

Oh hey look at me, I'm a real wannabe freedom fighter/martyr/justice warrior and I believe that Three Rings is such a huge, monstrous, oppressive and communist government that they're going to ban me for simply stating my opinions. But I don't mind, it's for the rights of the people!

OP's post gave me a chuckle, from the note mentioning Nintendo as the go-to games for people leaving Spiral Knights, to the gloating about his education, and the empty (not to mention lame and overused) narcissistic comments that always go like "I would tell you that you're really freaking stupid, but I'm nice so I won't", to the statement that completely contradicts the reason for the existence of this thread: "I don't care about it, really, truly, honestly, and you don't either."

Good job OP, made my day.

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 06:10
#5
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

I actually really dislike Nintendo. Their business strategy of abusing a few established titles while limiting them to consoles does not appeal to me. The work they do produce is fairly incredible on a number of fronts, but I can't help but think they could do more at the same time- the shear amount of money they make off of the combined nostalgia of several nations is just staggering.

As for the OP's speech (I thank the academy), I would have to agree with the overall message but not the execution of that message. The money producing aspects of the free game go against the nature of the game being free and should be more carefully dealt with than they have been. The money producing aspects of the free game do not have anything to do with the OP's background as a philosopher, and the OP did not directly state anything other than to watch extra credits. I'm sure the developers have by now heard of extra credits and I am sure that this issue is quite a bit deeper than them deciding on the spot to just fix everything. But again, should they fix everything? Yeah. Of course I think so; it wouldn't make sense for me not to.

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 06:19
#6
Kesari's picture
Kesari
.

If they communicated with the player base more actively, that would be nice, and maybe clear up a few things?

I really like how Robocraft has been going about it, they're surprisingly active on the forums, and have changed/fixed/abandoned things due to public outcry, and they've addressed concerns and whatnot. However, the players there have gotten a bit spoiled and rant and whine about everything and still aren't satisfied, but on the whole, I think the developers getting involved with the community really helps, people just get desensitized and take it for granted.

Here? You get a brief clarification from a GM about the confetti content of a prize box.

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 06:33
#7
Dahall's picture
Dahall

I don't believe this will be noticed by OOO considering how small the amount of forum lurkers has become. I appreciate that there are still players concerned about the game's heading and I hope you are going to ignore the ridiculous replies.

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 08:56
#8
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
.............

There are much more poorly made games out there that are rolling in cash since they advertise and release updates more frequently.
http://www.aq.com/

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 09:28
#9
Avihr's picture
Avihr
Void

ha-ha-ha-HA

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 11:09
#10
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Hmm.

I'm not an entitled little jerk/kid. I'm an educated philosopher and student in one of the highest schools in the country.
Not sure if I can believe all this after reading the rest of your post. In my experience, philosophers usually don't let emotions get the best of them while being all philosophical.

I'm mostly OK with Three Ring's payment model, but all I would need for them to do is make their items more fun to buy. The equinox/solstice boxes are not fun to buy because the items you want are trapped behind very low percentages, so the actual box isn't all that great. This is a box that would be great as an energy box. Verdant boxes had a high chance of getting items you want and you'll get something that was advertised (verdant colored costumes + accessories, maybe even a rare bunny tail or aura!), thus did well as a standalone box.

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 15:28
#11
Mergu-Md's picture
Mergu-Md
@Holy

As a long-time supporter and player of Artix Entertainment games, they have their stuff together. I wouldn't consider it more poorly made than SK, but them sticking to 2D graphics and having a ton of designers has led to their success. They release design notes practically daily with sneak peaks and images of their progress in all 9 of their games, and are commited to releasing a new event every single Friday. They also actively consider player suggestions, basing most of their updates on them and even having "Player Suggestion" shops where staff go through art posted by members and turn them into in-game items. [[A lesson OOO might be able to learn from.]]

I don't feel the comparison is fair, considering they have a huge team and it's a lot easier for them to get events designed because it's all 2D (well, except for their 3D-game-in-progress). They are not rolling in money, which is a common misconception from people who might play one of their games but not realize they have 9, each with their own teams (some members jumping back and forth). All the revenue they earn goes towards paying their staff, and some of their team members *ahem* Cysero *ahem* have told people they earn right around the same thing as a teacher's salary.

As for this thread, it's something we've heard before and OOO has heard before. I do agree there should be more interaction, and I definitely think player suggestions need to be given a higher priority (nobody knows the game like the player does!).

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 12:11
#12
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@ Lunaris

I used to play AQW actually under the screenname Fractalis http://www.aq.com/aw-character.asp?id=Fractalis

I left due to a few problems. Unfixed bugs, Lack of PVP balance, Lack of player Cooperation, visual bugs with the story and the difficulty accessing missed chapters of the story, and the fact that PVP was not a challenge anymore.

Oy... the bugs
http://i.imgur.com/iVhZ96L.jpg

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 12:50
#13
Ankokuflare's picture
Ankokuflare
One simply does not solve complicated problems

I'm a player, and yes, I can see room for improvement for the game. But sometimes I do feel like some of us forget that making a game does take up multiple roles with multiple steps that is needed before something changes. Not only do they have to worry about us players. There are policies, management, bugs, motivation, game economy, artwork, money, coding, communication, time schedules, and the team roster that may be affecting their development process. From experience in working on a small scale online fan-game, I did caught a glimpse on how different staff members and players can perceive that same game.

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 15:59
#14
Mergu-Md's picture
Mergu-Md

I was never much into AQW, I stayed over in EpicDuel and DragonFable mainly (even though I sport a level 50 pimp http://www.aq.com/aw-character.asp?id=Gamerguy219). From what I saw in AQW, most bugs were fixed pretty quickly if there ever were any. Lot of the design notes concern bug fixes. In terms of player cooperation, that's what you sign up for in an MMO :P Same as over here (Lockdown).

I switched over to SK because of the marketplace and combat dynamics. AQW (and their other games) had some walls with their spending- couldn't earn ACs, etc. After you caught up in the storyline the only thing to do was wait for the next update, spend an hour on it, rinse and repeat. Over here you can amass wealth by stomping on other people >:D

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 20:55
#15
Crashburnboom's picture
Crashburnboom
Thanks to All! :D

@Skepticraven
Thank you!

@Midnight-Dj: Heh.
@"OOO's reponse":
That's fine because if you (OOO) continue on your current path, then there won't BE that MMO. Just saying.

@Meep-the-bank
Whew. Thought for a minute you assumed I was a "snooty kid with money". Argument avoided!

@Hexzyle
Yeah well, that's just me being a paranoid, crackpot young fool. :P
Clarified it* I hope you understand my topic better now. :-)
(And I'm sorry that you feel that way. I only meant to distinguish myself from other people so that it would attract their (OOO's) interest.)

@Kesari
Yes. Right now I believe that their responses (or inability to) make them unreasonable targets. Just go look at one of their more recent posts.
For example: Posting "The confetti in the box is the Spring Confetti. Equinox Confetti is spring or fall depending on the season.", while literally like half the comments are complaining about boxes. That's obviously not a good idea. That felt like a slap to the face. (For me anyways).
I know the Miranda Rights; "Anything that you say can and WILL be used against you in a court of trial (or something like that)"
I disagree with this as a few, choice posts could mean the difference between a ramaging crowd of rioters (with many citizens slowly backing off from the game). And an excited community eagerly anticipating the next update, defending OOO for boxes and stuff (well, except stuff like Radiants, which is a chronic problem). It's a bit like War. War and business. [Well that sounds evil]. Remember Nick's old posts? -neither_do_I-

The least they could do is read some of the suggestions. They're extremely useful, reasonable, and underappreciated. Many describe motivations and ways out of their current... situation.

@Fezhor
Well you know what they say about those opinions.
(Just as a side note: I'm not a nostalgic as I just discovered some of their great games and franchises recently and personally enjoy their dedication to their respective franchise's fan base(s). The games are not just pure Nostalgia and are actually/arguably the most innovative at the moment. Nostalgia does't make a franchise alone. Good games do.)

@Dahall
It's responses like yours that make me genuinely smile. :-)
And to quote Aphrodite:
"You're so right, Fehzor, no one on staff reads these forums or cares about what goes on in them. ;)
Everyone else: If a section for forum games were to be made, what would you want to call it? (Please note this isn't a poll where the one with the most votes "wins"; we're just looking for suggestions!)"
This is my suggestion(s)

@Fangel
"I'm not an entitled little jerk/kid. I'm an educated philosopher and student in one of the highest schools in the country.
Not sure if I can believe all this after reading the rest of your post. In my experience, philosophers usually don't let emotions get the best of them while being all philosophical."
I'm sorry. I should have clarified that. I am a philosopher in the sense that I think about and learn about and debate about philosophy as a hobby. I am also one that actively pursues and enjoys the pursuit of knowledge, wisdom, and "the truth". (But also "real" topics like politics, the economy, and business.)
And this is not philosophy. This is Passionate video-game company forum advice.

@Lunarias and Holy-Nightmare
Please keep the topic at hand. If you wish to talk about it further, please create a forum in the gremblin's chatter section.

@OOO
If you want to talk in game or more preferably via a few in-game mail letters, feel free to contact me. My IGN is: Crashburn (real creative I know...).
I have a few ideas to shoot off, as well as being able to filter some of the community complaints and criticisms [Research & Marketing].
(And I'm willing to do it for only a few in-game crowns [or more, if you're feeling generous :P]: For a peasant, I am.)
(I am also willing to be quiet about said meeting or preferable chat through mail, if said meeting is told to be secret. I know there is a reason for secrecy. Also, You DO have my precious account in your hands, you know, if I "spoil the beans".)
@All
Goodness! I'm not used to much attention! Thank you for all this feedback!

I can only -pray_to_Nick- hope that "OOO", Aphrodite (why did I just think "Afro dite"), or one of the community managers is listening.

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 21:12
#16
Midnight-Dj's picture
Midnight-Dj
lyrics

@crashburnboom

Well, I hope you understand why I made that poem in the first place, it is a satire of OOO's relationship to us. We are the mindless costumers for them to manipulate at will, whales for them to squeeze, that is who we are to them, business is business, we can't make the final call even if we tried, this is their game and there is nothing we can do other than praying, pray for a change.

And even Aphrodite or Eury do read this, they have next to no power when it comes business decision. They are the spokesmen, not the actual developers, so even if they do agree with us, they are just as much in the dark as us.

I suggest you to give up now, even Zeddy the greatest technical guy who volunteered to fix OOO's problems got rejected so I don't think you and I will fair any better. Then again, we shouldn't be worried about SK, OOO are the ones who need to worry about SK, and every move they make from now will be their own responsibility not ours. Reap what you sow <- best quote from bible thus far.

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 21:37
#17
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

No, I don't know what they say about those opinions. Is it that some are formed with more basis than others?

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 22:02
#18
Crashburnboom's picture
Crashburnboom
Cool.

@DJ
Yes I do realize this. However, as explained in a few of the videos i provided, this is also, ultimately disasterous to their business. One thing that the developers or readers of this could do is to simply show these videos to their boss or ceo or SEGA and convince them to stop. I'm pretty sure that the developers don't just want this game to die. Exploiting your consumers like this is morally wrong. (Though given the abscence of Nick, I can't say that with confidence.) And more importantly its bad business.
I don't care if this game die that much. Sure I'll be upset. If it does, then I move on. I have moved on mostly and am anticipating some Future Nintendo games. [In fact l'm using my WiiU to write this atm]. But I would like OOO to succeed. To put out new and awesome content. To make a comeback!
@Fezhor
The thing is that no one says anything about opinions (usually) on the internet and get into huge disputes. You feel that you insulted my preference. Yet I'm ok with it and didn't insult your preferences , etc.
TL; DR I respect your opinion,

Tue, 03/24/2015 - 23:53
#19
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight

Not really sure what you want to achieve with this post. There are plenty of posts highlighting the problems with SK. It would be more productive to offer possible solutions.

Go to SEGA. They are moving to the PC/App marketplace. ASK them for HELP. For more DEVELOPERS/Programers. Advertise yourself more.

^I take it you are not familiar with how real world business management work. OOO is not a group of high school students working on a project supervised by SEGA. They don't simply ask for more resources. There is a system in place, and that system does not react to "business advice" from some random guy on the forums for one of the various games the company owns.
The best thing you can do is offer suggestions for how they can change Spiral Knights to improve things. The truth is they don't care about our business advice; they only care about what we want to see in Spiral Knights.

FYI:
OOO is currently hiring. You can check out their website for details. When you're done being a philosopher, master Java and apply for the position, assuming you're still this passionate about the cause. Since the game is intellectual property, they wouldn't allow anyone to touch the code without a legal contract, so you really need to get an official job with them to help. The game engine, however, is open source so you can contribute to that if you wish. I think Skepticraven had a link to the Git repository in some other thread. Forgot which one...

Wed, 03/25/2015 - 02:51
#20
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

@OP

Stop being friendly towards me it hurts.

Wed, 03/25/2015 - 03:31
#21
Mergu-Md's picture
Mergu-Md

@Lunarias and Holy-Nightmare
Please keep the topic at hand. If you wish to talk about it further, please create a forum in the gremblin's chatter section.

I believe comparing one game's interaction with their players to this one's is valid discussion. Design notes, sneak peeks, suggestion shops, suggestions being considered in general, every bug being fixed ASAP, team size differences - there's some good stuff in those posts. Discounting them right off the bat is just what OOO seems to be doing, something this thread is fighting against. CrashburnbOOOm

Like I said, they've heard this before. We've all heard this before. I don't think a few youtube videos are going to make an impact.

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