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Post update difficulty increase??

17 replies [Last post]
Fri, 06/10/2011 - 06:58
Brilling
Legacy Username

I only did 1 post update run last night, but it seemed that everything was doing WAY more damage then normal. I typically solo JK T2 gate with ease but last night I got totally stomped. As JK wasn't up, I picked a random gate (it was the non shock gate) but it was rough going. I know they chaged the damage done by wolvers, jellies, devils, etc... but it seems like they are just doing more damage overall. It could be that now that they are doing shadow/pierce damage and my resists aren't as good (I have miracle hood, Ash tail coat, wise owlite shield) but it seemed like it was way harder then it should have been.

My concern is if enemies are doing 4 types of damage now, it is impossible to get good defense stats in all 4 catagories. That means that overall stuff will be doing way more damage. It seems like they need to dial that damage down a bit, at least in T2. With my equipment, jellies shouldn't be doing 2 bars of damage with 1 hit on depth 10.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 07:19
#1
Gigafreak
Legacy Username
"My concern is if enemies are

"My concern is if enemies are doing 4 types of damage now, it is impossible to get good defense stats in all 4 catagories"
That's the way the game was designed. Piercing was always supposed to be just as threatening as the other three types. You're expected to change your gear to match the stratum you're venturing into.

However, I do hear talk that piercing defenses are not really stopping the enemy's new piercing attacks-- or at least not as much as Normal, Elemental and Shadow decreased damage from their respective attacks in the same depths. Haven't confirmed myself though, didn't have enough Mist.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 07:54
#2
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
The whole piercing thing - do

The whole piercing thing - do jellies do pure piercing damage in say, t3 now?

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:49
#3
Pwnzord
Legacy Username
I don't really understand the

I don't really understand the damage system anyway.. Does my Ash Tail Coat and Dusker Cap (normal + piercing) now prevent more, less, or the same damage from jellies??

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:12
#4
Gigafreak
Legacy Username
Depends on how defense works.

Depends on how defense works. If it's multiplicative/divisive, you'll have slightly less protection from Jellies in T2 and T3.

If it's additive/subtractive, you'll have more protection from Jellies in Tier 2 but slightly less in Tier 3 (due to the fact that the Wolver series has slightly less Piercing than Normal defense).

I do not know how damage and defense are calculated, so I can't say for sure which one it'll be.

I have suspicions that it's at least partially additive/subtractive though.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:25
#5
Gwenyvier's picture
Gwenyvier
What it really comes down to

What it really comes down to is that you're probably going to need is a set with well rounded defense in all 4 areas for status effect stratums, and different pieces for monster stratums. I believe this is how it was always intended though. It was really due to an oversight that jellies, wolvers, and devilites weren't doing their correct special damage... which led to the rise of everybody in their brother using Vog Cub as it was the only really viable option since elemental damage sources far out numbered the shadow and piercing damage sources combined.

~Gwen

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:14
#6
Blinky
@ Gwen

"What it really comes down to is that you're probably going to need is a set with well rounded defense in all 4 areas for status effect stratums, and different pieces for monster stratums."

Are you saying we should have a 5* set of armor, helmet and shield for piercing, a separate 5* set for elemental, another 5* set for shadow, etc...? If so, and if that is OOO's intent, I think that is really sucky. We are talking (at a very conservative estimate) 4350 CE and 146,700 crowns to get just 1 set of 5* armor. And for someone, (like myself for example) who would prefer to solo, to think that I will need 3-4 sets of armor (not even factoring in the weapons) at 4350 CE and 146,700 crowns PER SET... well, that makes me want to take my money and spend it on a much better designed game.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:28
#7
Gigafreak
Legacy Username
Then don't. You can just

Then don't. You can just mash, for example, Volcanic Demo Helm and Radiant Silvermail together to have a good chunk of all resistance types. It wasn't as useful back when Piercing barely existed, but now it's more viable than just focusing in on Elemental and Shadow as before.

'Course, the best defense was, is, and always will be "get outta the way!" If you are good enough at dodging and blocking, your chosen armor type will hardly be vital.

Vog Cub and Volcanic Demo armor are popular in the Citadel, despite neither of them having the slightest scrap of Shadow defense. (Though maybe that's not the best example since zombies are pretty predictable anyway, and their fire resistance is helpful when the floor is made of lava.)

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:07
#8
Loki
Legacy Username
@Tenlki

Unless I'm mistaken, from what I've seen, Jelly and Lichen, as well as Wolvers, do Piercing damage in all Tiers now.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:19
#9
Senshi
Legacy Username
Well...

UVs will help. Trinkets are an (expensive) option. Radiant Silvermail will be popular, I'm sure. Divine Veil gives shadow/elemental so many of the normal/piercing armors that have been neglected will pair with that; but if you don't have multiple 5* sets then you will be hurting when you go into areas that are all the same type of enemy (and so predictably the same type of damage).

The Firestorm Citadel standard set (Vog Cub cap and coat, grey owlite shield, or possibly volcanic demo if you're going to be the one carrying shivermist buster) is still going to be the firestorm citadel standard set.

Even before this update I was working on two helms anyway, now I'm going to want two or three helms and two or three armors.

T3 levels are a nasty business when you have the wrong protection, it's the same as going into them unarmored.

@Loki: Like everything else with special damage, jellies and wolvers do normal damage in T1, split damage in T2, special damage in T3.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:52
#10
Gigafreak
Legacy Username
Even Tier 1 (All-Normal)?

Even Tier 1 (All-Normal)? They had to go so far as removing Piercing from the Snarbolax to match everything else in there...

EDIT: Okay, someone beat me to it while I was distracted.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:50
#11
Dawnsymphony
I think OOO smiled at

I think OOO smiled at whatever complaints they got of lack of piercing damage, it is a great opportunity to get players to spend more on crafting or at least give people the perceptions that they need to craft new gear and what they have in inadequate.

It is a sad choice to be a sword user having to get face to face with stuff. Although instead of full damage protection with various combinations of gear, which is very costly to people who have to start from scratch to make, the alternative could be to just get better with fighting techniques and teamwork.

Bombers can roll with the patches with the same 1 or 2 options of helm and armor and the same bombs.
Kinda makes me wish I began as a demo user rather then wolver back before AH/crafting cost increase/4,5star binding patch.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 14:12
#12
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
Unless I'm mistaken, from

Unless I'm mistaken, from what I've seen, Jelly and Lichen, as well as Wolvers, do Piercing damage in all Tiers now.
Well, I meant pure piercing vs half-normal half-pierce

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 14:14
#13
Providence
Legacy Username
It's possible for any enemy

It's possible for any enemy to do pure non-normal damage in T3, I think.
So yeah Tenlki, I think they can. In T2 it's supposed to be split, in T1 it's supposed to be normal-only.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 14:26
#14
jooozek
Legacy Username
Dragon Scale Shield here i

Dragon Scale Shield here i come!

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 15:50
#15
Loki
Legacy Username
@Senshi

I've been doing Tier 1 and have noticed all Jelly Cubes, Lichens, and Wolvers have been doing pure Piercing damage. Only the Chromalisk was doing Normal-type damage.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 16:30
#16
Fallout's picture
Fallout
eh so i dont have to sell my

eh so i dont have to sell my wyrvn now..... coolio

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 19:32
#17
Gigafreak
Legacy Username
"I've been doing Tier 1 and

"I've been doing Tier 1 and have noticed all Jelly Cubes, Lichens, and Wolvers have been doing pure Piercing damage. Only the Chromalisk was doing Normal-type damage."

Oh snap.

Bug report away!

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