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Back to fight the morai

11 replies [Last post]
Wed, 04/08/2015 - 16:45
Shaded-Ramnotram

Backstory:

After looking at the prologue for a few times, i realized, we are not reaching the goal that the prologue set out. we are supposed to collect the energy to go back and fight the morai.

Mission ideas:

This should be for 10-2 and move them up to 14-4 to do because they have already finished the missions before. I'm not sure if this should be treated as a event or not(leave suggestions for that below) but i think there should be a boss at the end. Also, maybe the morai are highly resistant against everything, alternatively, there could be morai troops of all monster classes and maybe even mimic one somewhat for a regular player. Also, it seems like cradle has a moon. Could that be where to start to get back to the morai? maybe a smaller but somewhat reasonable power source for the skylark to use again. The boss for the end may be a morai king. possibly following similar stages of that of alimare. In addition, what about the order? i think it should be fight to moon surface, fight to moon elevator, extract the core, get it to the skylark. then the character ranks up to 11-1. then the character goes on a 4 mission hunt to retrieve parts of the skylark. first the front portion. then middle. then back. then weapons and sensors. and then they take off back to where the home world is. now they are 12-2 that means they have access to 6 star items, thats mk-2 proto gear which will be explained later. then, they fight the first mini boss of this campaign, the 8 morai captains. one each resembles a class of a monster. the hunt although will be split up into five missions. each one is a rank up. the order has yet to be decided though. after the 8 captains are defeated, they rank up to 13-1. then they will have to hijack the morai king's palace (or any other form of a building). they start off by shutting down the external supply so then the outer shields are shut down. then, they traverse inside taking out the royal guards on the way. afterwards, they need to fight their way to the internal power core, shutting down defenses for the king. then the players boldly appear in front of the king. and so the battle starts. as i said before, the king might have alimare like stages or maybe some of its own. in the end the players will recive 5 morai badges as a mission reward and also a variable reward from 4-8 morai badges. it takes 200 badges to get perfected set. thats 40 per set time . the set is 7 star. Also, the players rank up to 14-1. that means that they have access to 7 star items.

MORAI SETS:

General requirements: 2 Cosmic wood, 3 Unstable orbs, warp dust Insert more ideas below of what the set needs to make.

Proto gear mk-2
The sets will be explain here that will be explained shortly later. Also, weapons. weapons weapons weapons. the purpose of ranking up is to get new what? weapons. should it designed by the morai? should it still be gremlin engineered? i find that there should be proto mk-2 gears. instead of green with some white, red with some black. Also, maybe there should be 2 branches, one that is shock and fire, the other ice and poison. that also should be with the dmg type. piercing and elemental, or shadow and normal. The armor should have a mid defense to everything, a mid defense to all status, speed increased low, asi increase low, crt all increase low, dmg increase low.

Perfected gear

40 morai badges per item

Bomb
Perfect bomb: good chance of random status, deals moderate normal dmg, moderate piercing, moderate shadow,
Hand gun:
perfect gun: same stats, 6 rounds in a chamber, Charge Attack: shoots 3 thorns that orbit for 6 seconds, they later explode and deal a random status effect. looks like a thorn form snorlblax.
Sword:
Perfect sword:
Same stats, Charge attack: shoots a thorn that knocks back enemies as it goes,similar effect to the magnus, deals a random status effect

Perfected gear
status defense mid-high, asi increase , ctr medium, dmg increase medium

Alternate mission access ideas,

Just like operation crimson expansion pack, there should be a back ti fight morai expansion pack worth 3 times more and has a T3-5 campaign

Thanks for reading and i hope you have a great day!

Thu, 04/09/2015 - 10:35
#1
Fangel's picture
Fangel
No

This sort of suggestion has been suggested many times, and usually doesn't get too far. Leaving Cradle means leaving half the story and about 90% of our current gameplay. Lorewise, we have a reason to delve into the clockworks, and we have a reason that they're randomized every time. This equates to a lot of replayability that anywhere else wouldn't have. After leaving Cradle, lorewise, why would we return? Especially if we won our war? If we didn't win the war, we'd find another power source elsewhere, not go back to cradle.

The Morai themselves are on our home planet. If they tracked us out here that would be possible, however seeing as Cradle shot down our ship with one blow it wouldn't be all that odd for many Morai ships to be shot down as well. However why would their leader be on board? Pretty sure if the Morai almost drove us to extinction they're strong, and since they have control over our planet (presumably) they've "won" the war. Bottom line is that wanting another tier and accompanying star sets (tier 4, 6* and 7*) wouldn't really be a good thing, especially all grouped together here.

From what I see in this suggestion, we have:
New tier (tier 4) + new star levels
New Rank missions for the new tier
New gear

Suggesting those would probably be better, however I would recommend against taking the game off cradle. The moon could literally just be a rock, or it could be some sort of mechanical thing as well - we don't know. Morai are quite a bit of a stretch to be here on Cradle, as they simply exist to give us a reason to be on Cradle in the first place.

... I'm also against a tier 4 myself unless it's the inside of the core, and doesn't come with its own star sets. We don't need more powerful gear, but we do need more powerful enemies (that aren't just health tanks). Inside the core could do that and keep up with the lore.

Thu, 04/09/2015 - 21:07
#2
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
hmmm

I would be interested in the morai. I think having cradle open a portal at the core that sends us to our planet that way we would not need to use our ship to get there. The planet would be taken over by the morai, so we would not be able to stay there, but we would be able to create a temporary base there. Like having a tier 4. This means that our base would be still on cradle, but at the core, there would be a portal that would send us to our home planet. There, we would continuously fight the morai and try to free our home and any captured spiral knight and bring the captured spiral knights to cradle for protection. Then, after a long drawn out battle with the morai, we would face there boss and defeat him/her/it and therefore beat the game. Of course beating the game just means lore wise. In adventure wise, there can always be lots of other side missions, and other stories that could even lead to a whole new spiral knight version that includes DLC, and maybe a whole new threat for whole new lore.

Beating the game doesn't mean the end of spiral knights. The devs can always create a new enticing story that could involve the clockworks, but not have the main focus be on the core. Just because we end the story of getting the energy from cradle and going back to our planet and defeating the morai, doesn't mean that their can't be a new arc for the players of sk to keep playing. I just hate stories that stall and never end and have closure. We need an end to this ridiculous grind fest, and well i hope the developers/ president of 3 rings/ sega company will deliver a satisfying ending.

Fri, 04/10/2015 - 10:42
#3
Fangel's picture
Fangel
MMOs need to be open-ended

The core can open up and still not have us get off cradle. There have been many suggestions for that. A portal, wouldn't work too well.

However you do forget the fact of how the clockworks do work. Lore-wise, it takes in little bits and pieces from other worlds and pieces them together within its inner workings. So, say, we aren't exactly fighting the Morai on Isora, however the clockworks could take a small piece of our world (Morai and all) and construct its own bit. Bam, now we have a lore-friendly way to fight on Isora against the Morai without ending a story and keeping with the current lore.

In games such as Skyrim or other open-ended MMOs, it's fine to have stories or "quests" that have a beginning and an end. The route that Spiral Knights originally had was very much open, only having the Arcade as playable content. Now-a-days, however, we have a linear mission system that, once it ends, it ends. Leaving Cradle ends the "gameplay" of spiral knights, which is why I am against it. It also ends the game "lore-wise", but that's less important. We need to be on Cradle because it has the clockworks - which is what the game is about. Leaving Cradle is leaving the clockworks, which thus makes the game less of what it is supposed to be.

Fri, 04/10/2015 - 23:14
#4
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
hmmm

@Fangel:

No i don't agree fangel that leaving cradle ends spiral knights. Here is a big question for you. How do you know there is only one cradle out there in the big wide open space? There could many many cradle's orbiting around other galaxies far away and such. You should not limit spiral knights to cradle. Spiral knights to me can begin in cradle, but expand to soo much more possibilities revolving around the spiral knights. Lore wise, there can be many new stories and game play wise, there can be many many new possibilities. Don;t limit the game to just cradle that we are on now. Their can be a whole new planet we land on and we would find a cradle on it that has an operational clockworks that only has tier 1 and not the other tier 2 or 3. Very similar to the world of the anime dragon ball z, stories like spiral knights that shows the possibility of space travel can expand to so many more then just where the starting point is. The way dragon ball z had many planets the main character could travel too, and each other those world can have their own properties, is the same way the spiral knight game can expand where we get off cradle with a map showing other locations in space of other cradles we can travel to with our ship to refuel before we get to morai and expand the story with soo, soo, much more possibilities. So i urge you one more time, do not ever limit a game when it has room to grow.

Sat, 04/11/2015 - 12:27
#5
Fangel's picture
Fangel
I'm looking into much more

Okay, here we go:
Cradle is not a planet - it is a piece of mechanical genius. The reason it all works is because there is something very powerful at its core, something that us Spiral Knights could detect from very far away and sought out to find so we could win our war.

There are not more "cradles" out there. You can have other clockwork factories around, however we will not have the same clockworks with the same enemies or rotations. It is true we could pull a Halo and after escaping cradle discover there's like, 11 other clockwork spheres floating around in space, but without a powerful core why do we need to land on them, especially if we harvest this core's energy?

The story behind Spiral Knights is summarized as such: We're losing a war, we get a very high energy reading, we seek it out and find it on Cradle. Some unknown force destroys our warship, and we abandon ship, using escape pods to land on the "planet" surface.
The only reason we would leave Cradle is if we had a spaceship back and that energy source. But us Spiral Knights haven't been able to do much except scavenge one reactor from the mess of a ship and stare at the core terminal.

Leaving Cradle ends the gameplay that is set up in Spiral Knights. No longer are we going down to reach the core to rescue alpha squad. No longer are we trying to open the core to fix our ship and win our war. No longer are we fighting off an army of natives that seek to destroy us at all costs. Leaving Cradle isn't the end of the Spiral Order, it is an end to the game.

However, we can tie in other planets to Cradle because of how the Clockworks works. We don't go to other worlds, other worlds come to us.

A lore-friendly, gameplay friendly, and future-story friendly way to add content such as this is to add it to random clockwork rotations. The not-so-good way would be to physically leave Cradle.

Sat, 04/11/2015 - 17:43
#6
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
no......

@fangel:

Sorry, I completely disagree that we can't a new story that would allow us spiral knights to leave cradle and find a reason we have to land on another cradle and find a reason we have to explore that other cradle. The game would be the same, but with maybe a whole new environment, whole new bosses and a whole new set of redskin enemies lol. I'm not going to go create a whole story to explaine that possibility, but I am going to write that it is possible without ending the gameplay of spiral knights.

You can say it's too cheesy and convenient, but I say it is possible and it can work. I do not know why you are trying to eliminate that possibility, but I do know that it is a possible outcome that the devs can create.

Tue, 04/14/2015 - 11:19
#7
Fangel's picture
Fangel
It's mostly the random factor

Leaving the clockworks is leaving what built this game. We can have random levels with random enemies of random statuses and it is all built into the base lore of the game. We have mechanics working on the planet to maintain it too, so that's why it's lasted as long as it has.

The same gameplay could take place elsewhere, but it just won't be spiral knights anymore... It'll be more of a runescape-esk thing with Spiral Knight characters.

Bottom line is that, gameplay-wise and lore-wise, leaving Cradle will be harmful. No longer is the main plot-point in effect - the whole stranded thing. No longer are we hacking and slashing to the core because we're not on a clockwork planet anymore. The game becomes a much more generic hack n' slash opposed to what has made Spiral Knights great.

Also a design that Three Rings made early on was not to separate players at all. Doing what is asked would be separating players who are not playing the game at the moment. It's why we all default to Haven instead of different subtowns.

Tue, 04/14/2015 - 11:56
#8
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
you missed my point

@fangel:

fanged, you missed my point. We won't be leaving the clockwork. The new planet we would be landing on would be just another clockworks. It could be more limited where it only contains tier 3 and not 1 and 2 and could even expand where it could contain a new tier 4 and 5. All you would need to do is create lore to support this new cradle. I mean if you think about it, the whole new planet thing would just be another loading screen and players that could access it would just be those who reached tier 3. Haven would be the same, the new planet doesn't necessarily need a new atmosphere or new weather pattern. so really, there would be no separation of players. Only lore wise, these tier 3 players would be on a new planet. Though I could argue that creating a new haven or command center for this new planet is a must for game depth. Players who has reached a point in the story would have access to this new haven, but the players that reach this new haven could always head back to the old haven. It would be very similar to the camp we have for beginning players, but in this version, we would have access to go back to visit or stay in the old haven. And when I mean new haven, I do mean new npc's that live on this new planet, new gate locations, new everything.

Anyway, fanged it is possible. If you don't want to believe it is possible, that is your choice. So if I haven't convinced you by now, let's just agree to disagree.

Tue, 04/14/2015 - 13:10
#9
Fangel's picture
Fangel
I'm looking at it in depth and design-wise

Design-wise, it's not a good idea. Maybe a different game would provide a better situation, but Spiral Knights in its current state is by no-means a game where we can leave Cradle.

The Clockworks is built as a prison, initially to protect what is in the core. We would need to write a completely different story as to why we are on another clockwork planet, and why another clockwork planet exists. What I'm getting at is that in the time it would take to make a whole new lore/gameplay area, Three Rings could make a completely new game.

Leaving Cradle leaves behind our Clockwork Planet, the beasts, the slimes, the gremlins, the constructs, the undead... And that means half our family bonuses don't work anymore. Yes, we can have beasts and slimes and maybe undead on another planet, but gremlins are native to Cradle, and constructs are their creation.

Community-wise, we're split. Not good for game design. Gameplay-wise, we have to create a new system unless we want to be super boring and just clone cradle and call it "cradle 2: electric boogaloo" and just make things "harder". Lore-wise we would not come back to Cradle after leaving, and in MMOs there cannot be a real "timeline" - everything has to be able to happen several times. The Clockworks can generate the worlds it takes from many times over and over. Gremlins can rebuild the roarmulus twins over and over. We cannot, however, win the same war not on Cradle over and over. We cannot leave Cradle and still have recruits landing in from the crash. It's the same reason you can't go back to rescue camp as a Vanguard, the rescue camp isn't generated by the Clockworks.

I believe we can have harder content. I believe we can open the core and not end Spiral Knights. However, I do not believe we can leave Cradle and still be playing Spiral Knights. It's the same reason we can't leave Skyrim in the Elder Scrolls V, because no longer are we in our game.

You're looking at this as "more content!" rather than "is this healthy to every aspect of Spiral Knights?" More content is healthy to Spiral Knights, but separating the community and pulling a Halo, plus redesigning an entirely new planet with its own personal lore is not healthy to Spiral Knights.

Hence, I stand by the idea that we can pull the Morai into Cradle through means of how Cradle works, but we are not actually on Isora for the same reason we aren't actually in Almire.

Tue, 04/14/2015 - 19:29
#10
Trats-Romra's picture
Trats-Romra

Returning to fight the Morai wouldn't be a good idea, but would be interesting to have missions that are flashbacks of when we fight the Morai. Not just lore, but some action too. It would give more content and more lore on same time. It will be difficult to code and make for sure, but, lore-wise, it would be cool. (Just trying to give a different direction to OP's suggestion)

Wed, 04/15/2015 - 09:39
#11
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Oh here's an idea

Flashbacks are sorta odd and I don't really think we have such a thing right now, but what if we scavenged some training simulations from the Skylark, but the gremlins sabotage their AI and make a new Morai-esk construct?
Flashbacks are iffy in that they should take away the gear you've earned, however a training exercise allows players to keep their gear and have things directly affect what is around them.

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