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We the people need to bring CE down.

25 replies [Last post]
Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:04
Jesterz
Legacy Username

To whom it may concern:

The game moderators are making money off of the game, they aren't going to do crap to help the non-payers lower CE prices. The buyers of CE for USD obviously don't care because they feel they are getting their moneys worth.

People think about the now, and not the future. As long as some players are continuing to play, and they have a semi flow of new players joining, Spiral Knights don't really have to do anything about it.

That is why it is up to us to bring CE down.
Can we do it? Yeah... of course we can.

1. Don't go above 5,000 for Top Offers To Buy. "or desired price"
2. Advertise you are buying it for 5,000CR per 100CE so they know.
3. Use mist energy and give the game a day off or two unless they sell.

If we don't buy for their price, the demand of CE goes down, and sellers will have to meet the demand for them to make any money.
If the people keep buying and the CE prices keep raising...
Obviously the CE prices are going to keep rising because they can keep making a profit, and we can't allow this.

Logic:
Don't buy high, They won't sell high.

Tell your friends.
Don't expect others to do lower CE for you, or game moderators, seriously the buyers control the market not the sellers.

Holy-Aether A.K.A. David K?

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:22
#1
Thakos
"We the people" means "we the

"We the people" means "we the free-to-play players"? Pay players don't count as people, and their enjoyment via legitimate gameplay doesn't count?

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:09
#2
Mohandar's picture
Mohandar
A cynical example

This is just a cynical example of why this won't work:
I'm a F2P player. I have a decent stockpile of CE, I know how to maximize my earnings both in the dungeon and out, and I convert to CE knowing it won't devalue. Higher CE prices means I get a better rate when I need quick crowns to buy recipes. I usually play off a combination of mist and CE, further boosting my net crown (and CE) gain. I also have most of the 5* gear I need. Tell me why I need to care about rising CE prices.

There are basically three things contributing to the problem:
1) The underlying drive is selfishness. It's more than just instinct; it's a sound idea because if you don't look after yourself, you're not going to be in a position to look after anyone else. Similarly, there is the issue of accountability and fairness. If I join the low CE movement, how do I know the anonymous knight I sold my CE to (or vice versa) won't just turn to the market to make a quick buck? The lack of trust basically dooms any such movement, be it a boycott or trade coalition.
2) The fundamental problem is that the majority of the P2P players are reaching or have reached endgame, and are at a point where there is nothing left for them to buy with crowns. They buy less CE and sell less of it for crowns, and hence there is less CE in the market- supply and demand, prices go up. Sure, there is a small influx of new, steady P2P players, but the big rush from game launch in April has long since maxed out.
3) This is exacerbated by the burgeoning population of middle-class (3-4* equip) F2P knights, many of which are hunkering down for the long haul by converting their currency to CE, which is more stable and inflation-proof. Most of these players never plan to buy CE, and the recent changes that feel like a ploy to squeeze real money out of them has basically hardened their resolve. I suspect that that for them, SK is purely a casual game and it doesn't bother them that they only play an hour a day and earn enough to buy 100CE every other day. Either that, or they will drift away and find new games.

I think the SK community will be a little poorer for the lack of players online at any given time, but it's a long way from being dead.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:49
#3
Jesterz
Legacy Username
Exactly

@Sarcose
Exactly. If the sellers don't care about the buyers, I see no reason why the buyers should care about the sellers / ones who buy with USD. :]
I think you got the gist of it. The invisible hand will take effect either way.

@pringerX

I don't understand what you being a high player not caring about the prices have to do with it not working.
Also, it's called the Invisible Hand theory and it does work, however I'm not implying everyone will do it, and that it will work.
This is implied to the buyers not the sellers, I don't care if you sell your CE for a higher price as long as no one buys it.

I myself would like to get enough CE to sell 5-10per customer for 50CR per, and make sure trade and everyone sees it, others may start to follow.
However, JK run is gone, there really isn't much profit to get on runs, and I'm not worried about using or buying CE either.

My goal was to look holy, and I did within two weeks.. with my goal complete I don't have much else to do.
However, I used the AH to make all my crowns and can do the same again without worrying about CE.
That doesn't mean I can't try and help the lower people, I've already had 4 friends I've invited quit because of the mist situation.

So again, yes I could care less what the sellers think or say, as they do not care what the buyers think or pay.
Should buyers be looked at as selfish trying to find a good deal? Should sellers be looked at as selfish trying to make a profit? I don't think so.

As you can see, I'm not telling the sellers to do anything, only the buyers.
The people selling the CE can do whatever they want.

--------------------------------
In case anyone else wants to comment.

Will this work? Probably not, there will always be some rich person willing to spend the extra money bringing the market price back up.
Will this help? Yeah, I believe so if enough people advertise and go with it, the market will slowly go down ... maybe not by much.. maybe never back to 50CR:CE, but it may go down some.

Again, I'm not buying CE to do runs now that JK is gone and there is no profit to be made without buying Recipes.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:26
#4
Guardianknight's picture
Guardianknight
Maybe put a cap limit...

Maybe the Devs could put a cap limit price of 5k or 6k for CE.
But then again, if the demand is high then nobody will be making a profit.
I am upset about the rising prices though.
Including mist energy, 2 weeks ago it cost 15k (price of 300 CE) crowns to make a 4* item.
Now I need 21k ( price of 300 CE) crowns to make it.

IGN The one and only, Guardianknight.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:29
#5
Sniperjoe's picture
Sniperjoe
Capping the market is a

Capping the market is a terrible idea. Who's to say what the proper amount is? Or if/when that cap will change?

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:49
#6
Gwenyvier's picture
Gwenyvier
I think you miss the point...

I think you miss the point... which as another poster put is "The fundamental problem is that the majority of the P2P players are reaching or have reached endgame, and are at a point where there is nothing left for them to buy with crowns."

The biggest crown sink in the game is recipes... at 25k ea (from Basil of course). Trust me, an end game player can get 25k rather easy. I made an easy 20k in 4 floors yesterday after selling off the 5* mats that dropped (4 floors, no deaths, 40 energy = 2800cr, 17.2k profit). Why does an end game player need your crowns? They have the equipment they want/need. Aside from UV equipment they don't need your stuff. On the other hand you DO need their CE. The demand for CE is probably much higher then the supply being sold. CE is like gas... you need it, they know you need it, and you're going to either have to pay what they say or do without (or buy with real money).

And your idea won't work. You can post all the 5k offers that you want, the sellers KNOW you need their CE. They can wait you out, if they don't want to sell lower they won't. So you'll have to eventually buy at their price if you want CE. I'd like a new PS3 for $100... that's not happening either.

Capping the market wouldn't work either unless they banned CE trade. If you cap the market below what the sellers want to sell at and you'll just see an exodus from the market into the trade channel.

In all honesty they're providing you a service. They bought the CE with real money, and are now offering to sell it to you for crowns, so you don't have to pay real money. Its not bad to want a return on your investment and I can't blame them for selling it high.

~Gwen

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:48
#7
Guardianknight's picture
Guardianknight
I dont know.

Yeah i realize it's not the best idea.
I'm just bored. AND TIRED.
Throwing out random stuff hoping I'll think of something useful.

IGN The one and only, Guardianknight.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:02
#8
Jesterz
Legacy Username
I think you have missed my

I think you have missed my point too.
That, and I don't believe I ever stated it would work, only help bring it down.

Sad too, CE went up, and Material prices went down.
Jiggly King is on vacation, and its hard to make a profit now.
I can't get into graveyards as much as I do Treasure Vaults which aren't worth it... "except I think leaving the vault going down is free? Can anyone verify?"

I also understand about the end game people, I'm thinking of quitting in a few weeks my self. :]
And I just started.. Just can't get much gameplay out of the game imo.. Thing is, it runs on Mac.

I suppose it doesn't matter now whom I tell.
I made all my money buying shards and reselling them, over two weeks I got my 5 Star Gear..
I don't even know if I did 50 runs yet... I didn't really need much gameplay,
but playing the auction house is only fun for some people including my self.

Some people actually want to play the game, and I think they should. :]
The idea of it being like a facebook game where you can do one run a day doesn't satisfy too much.
However it is fair, and the owners can do what they want. Same with the sellers, same with the buyers.

Which is why I only speak for the buyers of CE without USD.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:16
#9
Guardianknight's picture
Guardianknight
@Jesterz. If you do end up quitting...

@Jesterz...

If you do end up quitting I could use your stuff.
Not that your gonna just hand out stuff for free.
I'm sure you got other friends and what not
but if you just want to get rid of all your stuff
I'd be happy to take it off your hands.

IGN The one and only, Guardianknight.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:09
#10
Jesterz
Legacy Username
I see, thank you for the

I see, thank you for the offer Blacksword. ^.^
I do have a few friends, only one friend off the game who actually did keep playing though, whom I would probably give my stuff to.
But I think I'd give it out in small increments to the public first.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:55
#11
archury
Legacy Username
Bringing down the crown price

Bringing down the crown price of CE's permanently is not possible by the players. Why? Because $'s are more valuable than crowns.

The only solution is for OOO to introduce more crown sinks in the game relative to the number of energy sinks.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:59
#12
Providence
Legacy Username
A guildmate of mine told me

A guildmate of mine told me that during the preview CE cost more than 20,000 crowns. The day after PvP was released CE went down to 2000 crowns, and a month or so later CE went back up to around 10,000-----but it stayed around half of what it used to cost.

Crownsinks definitely look like the way to go.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 14:01
#13
Splinter's picture
Splinter
Not only crown sinks but PVP

Not only crown sinks but PVP is an added aspect that would add more players - some of which would become paying players to the game. Added prizes and entry fee crown and CE sinks to PVP could help as well. Not to mention the need for PVP gear.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 14:37
#14
Guardianknight's picture
Guardianknight
@Jesterz. cool.

@Jesterz...
Cool. Yeah I understand you got other friends
out there. I just hate to see people with 5* gear,
tons of energy, and a lot of crowns just quit.
If you want to give me stuff I'll take it but please
feel no obligation ( and this is depending on whether
or not you even end up quitting)..

IGN The one and only, Guardianknight.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 18:56
#15
Jesterz
Legacy Username
Again, I know prices won't go

Again, I know prices won't go to 50CR let alone close, but stating it in Trade, or asking for it can help bring the prices down or get you a good deal which is exactly what I'm trying to do. I'd like people to get on Spiral Knights and keep playing more then 2 hours / one run. It does sound neat about the P2P though but I don't think I will do it.

I usually do play games for about 5 weeks and leave, but I also have a lot of friends, '98' of them apparently, and about 10 that I actually talk to a lot that I would give my stuff to first, so I can't say I'd pick favorites. I'd rather try to help new players before anything. Not letting them know I'm quitting and give them a few things to help them along. That or to someone I trust who would do so. The topic isn't me giving away free stuff though ^.^;

Trying to have buyers attempt to or advertise to buy for less, and not deceivingly.

--EDIT--

It doesn't seem like there are many people buying recipes anymore either. x.x;
Almost makes you wonder if you should even try to help lower the CE prices...

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 18:59
#16
Cobalt
Legacy Username
All of these CE complaint

All of these CE complaint threads, Blah.

It'd get up to 10k in beta, meh.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 19:44
#17
DeeCee85
Legacy Username
@Sarcose: Pay players count

@Sarcose: Pay players count as people. If nobody pays the game wouldn't last long, just ask Realtime Worlds. Pro tip.. making games, running servers, and paying employees like Eurydice, nick, etc.. *whispers* costs money. Shh.. don't tell anyone. You seem to be one of those people who get an epeen boost if you *win* the game without spending a $. That's cool for you but you can't be pissed @ others who bought. In fact - if no CE was purchased ever in the history of ever, in ever - then you wouldn't have any to buy with crowns...

@Holy-Aether: Neither buyers or sellers are in charge of the market. AH introduced more crown flow and there's no crown sink in the game that competes with CE. The players need more to spend their crowns on besides the AH and more CE. It's the only thing that will lower the CE costs, otherwise it will continue to rise until it plateaus.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 20:18
#18
Jesterz
Legacy Username
@DeeCee85 I disagree, it wont

@DeeCee85
I disagree, it wont happen, but if no one clicks Buy CE for 7000, eventually someone will undercut it to say 6995.. if no one buys that same thing.. sellers will be impatient and want Crowns.

It goes the other way with buyers... impatient and will almost buy anything... Exactly why it wont work. However, saying in trade over and over people may see it and join in, sell less or buy for less. Some sellers may make offers like selling for 65, or 60cr per. And that is my goal.. to let new players play more and be able to pay for CE.

But again, there will always be buyers buying CE on the market... can't really stop that.. but if you don't try nothing will happen. :] It will continue to fluctuate and probably go up a little more slowly.

I've noticed less people are buying Recipes too.. kinda sad D:

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 20:59
#19
PeterS
Legacy Username
Well...

The market's very fluid, and will probably resist such meddling at anything but the largest scale.
If you begin an initiative to sell lots of CE at 5000 CR, but the market will actually support a much higher price, (like 6k, or 7k)-
-It is then advantageous to buy up all the cheap CE and list it at the higher price. Someone'll turn a profit on it!

Back when I played World of Warcraft, I had someone in my guild who spent all his time looking for underpriced items in the auction house and reselling them at the "correct" price, making ludicrous amounts of profit on it.

(I believe that was actually all he did, his character was quite low level.)

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 21:26
#20
AutumnalDusk
Legacy Username
Another alternative

Right up front: I sell CE. It's good for the game (pays for servers and whatnot), and it allows a free player to pay it off in "sweat equity". No, I don't price gouge, either, in fact, I've undersold (20kCr for 1kCE).

I believe there can be a "happy medium". I experienced in another game (name withheld), they actually had a NPC do "currency conversion" auctions, like an AH *just* for (in this case) CE buyers and sellers. The currency was not readily tradable from player-to-player, except through the exchange.

The natural market dynamics kept things "stabilized", where Player X sold "100CE for 7,000", and was undercut by Player Y, who sold 100CE for 3,000 kind of thing. Supply and demand kept the market running, the overly greedy were tied up in market, while the more reasonable sellers sold in volumes. And to top it off, the seller had to pay a 'posting fee' base of the (expected) Crowns amount.

This system made it easier for a buyer to find CE, and took the Seller out of "standing around, advertising", giving more time to actually *play*.

Is it a "perfect" system? No, but what system is? It is, at the very least, a conversational point for consideration.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 21:22
#21
Talontorn
Legacy Username
Ugh

You twits always tick me off. Have you ever read a single fricken wikipedia article about ecnomics?

When OOO releases another CE-deal worth buying you'll see CE drop again. Until then, it will slowly rise to past cost of doing a dungeon and auctioning the mats you get. It's not there yet. So keep playing for free, and stop complaining.

^post above me: Exactly correct. Good luck OP asking ppl to list at a lower price.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 22:16
#22
Jesterz
Legacy Username
Replesss :D

@PeterS
That is why you don't do it in the market, and you do it in so many amounts per customer which I believe I've mentioned above.
Already ahead of you. ^.^

That, and doing so in this way, if it doesn't work many people will be happy with dealing with my trades in the future, I will be more known on the game, and probably have more friends... but it doesn't seem to be going past 98.. that or one of my friends has a problem, and it keeps deleting him or me. He keeps saying I'm deleting him but I'm not x.x;

@AutumnalDusk
I don't really know what you're talking about, but it had something to do with a listing fee and SK's AH.
having to pay 5000CR Tax to put in 200 Gel Drops or w/e to make 2300CR seems outrageous to me o.o;; someone can sell 10 single items cheaper then your own per, and theirs will appear in front of you.. I don't think it was like that a week ago lol..

@Talontorn
I've taken a Macroeconomics course in college, and an economics class in high school but no I haven't read a wikipedia article about economics. But thank you for the good luck ^.^

So far I have three people attempting to help.
However, I'm not trying to buy CE right now until JK is back... no point in doing runs right now.
Doesn't even seem like a point in buying Recipes and trying to sell them either.. Even on a friday night. D:
Perhaps Saturday will be better?

@Cobalt
Sorry I missed you, I don't believe I complained about CE prices, only stated I'm trying to help them be lowered. ;]
I think many new people deserve the chance to play longer.

Again, I could care less what the sellers sell them at, as long as the buyers aren't buying from them.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 00:15
#23
Betrael's picture
Betrael
#20

that one ^

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 07:33
#24
PeterS
Legacy Username
Ah, well then

If you're doing it outside the market, then it's just charity.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:45
#25
ken08009
Legacy Username
my perspective

The OP has a very good, valid point, the vast majority of products not only in mmo's but in real life are priced for x amount because ppl are willing to buy it for x amount. Another way to put it: Everything has a price, the question is, what's the price you're willing to pay?

I personally have put up money of my own for CE, but I'd personally prefer if the market price was about 5k instead of about 7k. As such I dont have any intention of paying more much more than 5k cr.

I think the idea in post #20 is worth a try.

Depending on how things end up in the game in regards to how much demand there is for CE, I think it may end up being neccesary to buy 100 CE (at a time) from an NPC for somewhere between 1k-2k. Granted that would prolly be several months away at the least.

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