Spiral Knights - Fixing the Game's Difficulty(making it not a punishing game)

Fixing the Game's Difficulty(making it not a punishing game)

12 replies [Last post]

Sun, 04/19/2015 - 11:40

Pery-Alaois

I have found that Spiral Knights is kind of a punishing game.
The game is still fun, and I will still play it and enjoy, but if this issue is solved, the game would be even more enjoyable.

The difficulty system is a factor in this problem, though it's very, very small.
Elite mode cranks up the monster health, but all this does is make the easy monsters still easy, and the difficulty spikes more.. spiky. This means that the difficult monsters are more frustrating. But, we have to deal with elite mode in order to get more crowns and rarities.

The main factor of the problem that has been with this game longer is Difficulty Spikes.
There are some monsters that are easy(slimes and beasts), but some that are tough(fiends and undead). The monsters need to be more consistent in difficulty to lessen this issue. There are also cheap attacks that come with this. Cheap attacks like sudden-thwacker-spin-attack-MANIA, stupid-mender-runes-that-heal-to-much-and-aren't-balanced, stupid-mender-revives-that-slow-down-battle-progress, and minimonsters-that-hurt-on-contact,-unlike-the-other-monsters.

Now, I'm experienced enough to ignore some of these problems longer, but if you want to give a more satisfying experience for more players, this is something to look into.
-Pery

EDIT: Changed some things, Corrected myself(this should be a new slogan!).

Sun, 04/19/2015 - 14:56

Malware-Exe

Practice makes perfect! No game is all that punishing, getting really good just takes time

Sun, 04/19/2015 - 17:14

Blandaxt

hmm

@Pery-Alaois:

I understand your point pery-alaois and i totally agree. Beast who are suppose to be cunning and fast and slimes who are suppose to be tough and heavy damaging are pretty much a weak link in the monster difficulty in sk. I wish it was consistent, but whatever suggestion we throw at OOO to make some changes haven't been implemented as of yet. So unless you can find a way to get the developers to listen to you, nothing is gonna change.

Mon, 04/20/2015 - 08:24

Skepticraven

↓

"Advanced and Elite mode cranks up the monster health and damage"

Nope, only monster health and player "I'm stupid" armor [that only gets used if you wear a completely incorrect armor set]. Monster damage is unaffected by difficulty.

Mon, 04/20/2015 - 12:06

Grovann

lolno

A simple solution to all of your listed problems is two words.

*jazz hands* Git gud.

Mon, 04/20/2015 - 12:34

Holy-Nightmare

.....

This game isn't impossible to beat without using sparks, however there are some situations and some places that are impossible to beat without losing a heart or two.

Mon, 04/20/2015 - 12:45

Grovann

Kek

Yeah because a heart or two is totally the end of the world.

/thread

Mon, 04/20/2015 - 18:31

Blandaxt

yeah

The monsters in the game are tottally unbalanced. Wish we could create more fodder for the hard monsters mainly the fiends and create harder to beat monsters for the weak family mainly the beast. Too bad OOO isn't going to focus on that anytime soon with arcade redux coming up.

Mon, 04/20/2015 - 15:29

Pery-Alaois

Whoa whoa whoa hey hey

Whoa whoa whoa hey hey hey!
Look, I AM good at the game. I'm a vanguard who has completed all the missons without using any sparks, so I'm not complaining here(sorry for not saying that).
I didn't know that monster damage wasn't increased. Anyway, I have a divine viel, vog cub coat, and skolver coat.
All I'm saying is there isn't consistincy in the monsters, causing huge difficulty spikes.

Man, I should get better at getting my point through.
-Pery

Tue, 04/21/2015 - 08:18

Holy-Nightmare

......

Pery is right.... certain monsters are more dangerous than others, but that is mostly due to the fact that dangerous monster combo's don't match up. Wolvers aren't too much of a trouble but throw them in with Glop drops and a few rocket pups and suddenly it gets harder. You can't use a sword or the Drops with get you, can't use a bomb with the Rockets flying around, can't use a gun that well with wolvers porting here and there blocking your shots at the rockets.

We tend to look at monsters as individual threats but people seem to forget why the Tortodrone missions were so hard. The monsters there teamed up very well. Devilites would punish you when you shot a charge or got stunned/shocked. Greavers followed you as you tried to kite, and the Silkwings countered damage you did while the tortos remained a huge thread.

On the other hand we have the Rotten Metropolis mission, both monster kinds there are very easy to kite and the whole level seems to rely too much on monsters catching you while you grab the totem or you walking into the briars.

Tue, 04/21/2015 - 11:04

#10

Fangel

Good point.

One reason why the Grinchlin Assault mission is notoriously difficult is the small areas to fight in and the monster combinations. Slimes aren't a problem... Until you have rockets covering entire areas of combat and and thwackers coming at you from every angle.

Heart of Ice is hard because of similar situations. Fiends aren't terribad on their own and wolvers are push-overs... Put them together and you have a problem if you didn't bring a bomb.

What really needs to happen is have two levels to difficulty - one per tier, one for what difficult level you choose to play on. If you play on normal or advanced, monsters attack as is. On elite, add a spin to every enemy. Doesn't have to be too big, but add something that makes it more difficult. For example, an elite gremlin thwacker could now use remedy capsules, menders could smack you with their wand again (for low damage), scuttlebots would have a slightly larger radius of attack, wolvers would track you for 80% of their attack (alphas would for the entire windup, but still bite forwards only), slimes would have an additional spike in their ranged attacks... Something small but the more you encounter it the more you have to be prepared for it. In this way, you can buff up easier enemies while not making the already hard enemies too much more of a problem.

Tue, 04/21/2015 - 16:29

#11

Blandaxt

well...

I feel you are right fangel, but o also feel the weaker families need some heavy hitting and hard to deal with monsters. This way, there is more varied enemies to the beast and slime family. Like some kind of beast turret instead of always using the linchen one in beast levels.

Tue, 04/21/2015 - 17:15

#12

Fangel

New enemies is a thing

Well each damage type has slow class and a fast class. For piercing slimes are slow and have lots of health and beasts are fast/jumpy with lower HP. For elemental constructs are slow and, again, have lots of health while gremlins are sort of dodgy and tricky. For shadow undead are, you guessed it, slow and have lots of health while fiends are fast and have low health. (As a quick note, all the "slow and tanky" enemy types are the ones that have turrets)

This works very well because it means you can pair up enemy types depending on what type of environment you want the fight to take place in, with a specific damage type too. Beasts + fiends is a lot of jumpy and dodging enemies that require fast-paced and immediate thinking. Constructs + undead is lead to a lot of tanking enemies so you swap out fast weapons for slower, more powerful weapons. Heck, those two examples are showcased even more in danger missions.

So with this in mind... if we added new enemies they should keep to the themes. Beasts should have a fast but quirky/hard to hit with swords enemy. Sort of like the beast version of the fiend's gorgo. Having a bat that jumped forwards and backwards instead of left to right could make for an enemy suitable for beasts. Perhaps slimes could get an "elite" mob (mecha knights, big gremlins, and greavers make up this category as of now) that attack in a brandish-charge attack style but with spikes? Dunno what to call them or what they'd really look like, but jelly as a base would work.

Again, new enemies are always welcome, but we should try to keep the families in a procedural system. Piercing is the "low tier" of enemies with shadow being the "high tier". Shadow monsters should be generally harder, however piercing monsters should still be, well, dangerous.

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Fixing the Game's Difficulty(making it not a punishing game)