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Do you think we'll ever see a return of player agency?

8 replies [Last post]
Fri, 05/22/2015 - 14:23
Khamsin's picture
Khamsin

Back in the early days of Spiral Knights, the experience of the game was largely driven by other players. The Arcade was the primary source of action in Spiral Knights, and players took a serious part in sculpting the gates as they saw fit. Yes, there would be trolls who would continuously put Dark City before FSC, but that really created a strong sense of community early on - players were CHOOSING to do that sort of thing to each other.

Nowadays, the action mostly seems to take place via scripted Rank Missions and rotated Prestige Missions. We know the Arcade Revamp is coming at SOME POINT in the future, but we have no idea that that will entail. My question is, do you think that we'll ever see a return to the days where the community is making decisions about what content would appear?

Fri, 05/22/2015 - 17:30
#1
Bopp's picture
Bopp
would be great

It would be great, but I think that you're overstating the old system of depositing minerals to make Arcade gates. Only a tiny fraction of players participated, and an even smaller fraction of players ever had any serious effect.

I hope that the Arcade Redux offers a much more powerful option. We might as well mention the idea of player-designed levels while we're at it. That would be the killer content-provider. Done as a contest, it would also offer an entirely different kind of PvP.

Fri, 05/22/2015 - 19:18
#2
Plinken's picture
Plinken
I don't see any way the old

I don't see any way the old system could possibly be better than the new one, other than the annoying "its how it was before, so it's obviously better!!!" mindset that so thoroughly plagues MMOs these days

Fri, 05/22/2015 - 19:54
#3
Whimsicality's picture
Whimsicality

If the Arcade Redux allows players to influence the gates in any way, it better not be a revert to the old system. The old system wouldn't benefit the community as it stands now at all. If you don't remember the countless freeze and poison themed strata that happened as a result of the Battle Sprite update being mixed with the old Arcade gate construction, then I don't know what to say.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 07:13
#4
Khamsin's picture
Khamsin
"It would be great, but I

"It would be great, but I think that you're overstating the old system of depositing minerals to make Arcade gates. Only a tiny fraction of players participated, and an even smaller fraction of players ever had any serious effect."

Yes, for the most part people just mindlessly deposited minerals. However, there were plenty of guilds that made serious effort to change strata 3 before JK and strata 5 before FSC. The system of adding a third most prominent mineral to cancel and randomize the choice set let smaller groups have a chance of influencing the gates as well.

"If you don't remember the countless freeze and poison themed strata that happened as a result of the Battle Sprite update being mixed with the old Arcade gate construction, then I don't know what to say."

I remember. Yes, you can't have gate materials both be a crafting material and be used for gate construction.

"I don't see any way the old system could possibly be better than the new one"

Did you not play back in the day? Gate construction was one of the more interesting parts of the game if you were a member of the endgame community back in the day. Today, there's really no sense of a complete community - everyone really does their own thing with no influence on anyone else.

"I hope that the Arcade Redux offers a much more powerful option. "

Yeah, I hope so too. That's all we can do I suppose is hope.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 08:19
#5
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
@Khamsin

However, there were plenty of guilds that made serious effort to change strata 3 before JK and strata 5 before FSC.

What point would this serve now, though?

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 08:38
#6
Khamsin's picture
Khamsin
"However, there were plenty

"However, there were plenty of guilds that made serious effort to change strata 3 before JK and strata 5 before FSC.

What point would this serve now, though?"

I'm talking about the spirit of player agency, not about specific implementations (or else this would belong in suggestions). Obviously gate building reintroduced as it used to be wouldn't work for a variety of reasons (as already discussed).

I think most vets can agree that there is less control over the world than there used to be. Danger missions rotate on their own schedule, 000 controls when events come and go, the experience of Cradle is largely controlled by the Rank Mission script, etc. If the game was a single player game, it might be hard to even notice the difference at this point if you don't actively participate in Lockdown. Speaking for myself only, part of the reason I came to this game, in addition to the fantastic art style and combat, was that this was a world that the players themselves influenced. Players influencing strata to try to drum up easier arenas, trolls spawning Dark City before FSC, or the community trying to spawn an undead strata to try out the new Grimalkin maps all contributed to the feeling the community was part of the world.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:04
#7
Yonana
agreed

I agree with with you completely. Missions aren't the content this game needs. As evidenced by the set of mission before the last update, people will play them once and get bored unless they are grindable. There should be more variation, random level layouts, events etc.
they were on the right track with arcade 2.0, but stupidly decided to delay it in favor of missions that took a few moments to design in a level editor . If you look at steam charts the player counts have always been decreasing, even after these so called "content" mission have been released.
Look at realm of the mad god, it is objectively quite poorly made but still manages to be hugely popular, even more so than this game because of the fun level mechanics and random events.

Tue, 05/26/2015 - 11:49
#8
Gent-Soopakoopa's picture
Gent-Soopakoopa
The real problem is that

The real problem is that there honestly is no reason NOT to play the missions. Not only do the missions come with
specific rewards the first time around, but they're also the quickest ways to get to the bosses and they're predictable
enough that you can start speed running them in order to get the maximum crowns for your time.

I still do the gates for fun every once in a while, but darnit I just want to MOVE ON to the 5* tier already!
I literally gave up on this game for a year or so just because the 4* tier drags on for so ridiculously long!

...okay, Seriously though, there aren't really any particular incentives. If monsters and boxes in
Arcade mode had a 1.5x crown drop rate, sure. I would play it more. Certainly. If there were a greater chance
to find rarities, yes. Not only would there be more reasons for ME to play Arcade, but there'd be more reasons
for OTHER people to do the same and this game could go back to actually being multiplayer.

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