Spiral Knights - What other classes would you like to see in Spiral Knights?

What other classes would you like to see in Spiral Knights?

28 replies [Last post]

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 12:07

Fangel

This could easily become a suggestion sparker, but I figured hey, why not spark discussion based on the idea of class armor?

As of right now, we have several weapon and armor "classes". Here are the ones I know of off the top of my head:

Striker (AKA Swordsman) - uses swords and sword-boosting gear. Typically uses wolver gear.
Gunslinger (AKA Gunner) - uses guns and gun-boosting gear. Typically uses a swiftstrike shield and, in the past, alchemers.
Bomber - uses bombs and bomb-boosting gear. Typically uses chaos or volcanic demo, and has a large arsenal of support and damage bombs.
Hybrid - uses multiple weapon types. Typically has a sword and a gun, but if more slots are unlocked may have a bomb as well. Typically in chaos or black kat gear matched with a swiftstrike.
Guardian - uses high-knockback weapons. Typically has a sudaruska or other heavy damage weapons, cares more about taking damage than dealing damage, and about keeping enemies back more than dealing damage.
Glass cannon - uses high damage weapons and high-damage armors, typically lowering their own defense to a minimum if it means they get more combat power. Typically uses chaos/black kat, brandishes, and a swiftstrike.

I'm probably missing quite a few "classes" for sure, but what other kinds of classes would you like to be be encouraged or introduced via gears we're given?

I'd love to see more "weapon specialty" gears where they have a specific weapon CTR on them, as there is no gear that gives sword CTR as it's combat boost. I'd also love to see more "situational" combat gears, such as increasing MSI but reducing ASI, or specialized-hybrid gears, such as increasing bomb damage and gun ASI, but reducing sword CTR and damage.

In terms of classes we could see with more weapons, I'd love to see a legitimate scout/recon class ability. Probably through a new battle sprite, perhaps it would disappear for around 30 seconds "scouting" the area, which then lights up the map within a certain radius, and spawns enemies in those areas. The red dots are then added to the large map as well as the minimap. Potentially we could get a recon shield in PvE that makes you invisible to all enemies that aren't already aggro'd at you. Almost useless solo, but if you're shielding before enemies get aggro'd you can walk around in that area.

Annnywaaays, that's enough babbling for this first post - what sort of classes or playstyles do you all wish were in the game? Someone the other day asked what it would be like for stealth to be in this game. Personally I'm not sure if a stealth mechanic would work too well in SK, but a scout sort of thing would be completely do-able!

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 12:29

Melonfish

Gremlin class, anyone?

Being a Guardian should grant the perk of being resistant to knockback and flinching from attacks as well, meaning that you do not flinch from an enemy/opponent's attack making contact while you execute yours. Since a long time ago I have expressed concern in how the Plate Armor sets should have been given this function from the beginning.

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 12:40

Hexzyle

Lorewise, we have divisions, and loadouts, not classes.

Going by your "segmentation" of classes, it's possible to be a Glass cannon guardian hybrid/bomber/striker. Actually, by mentioning that the "typical" hybrid gear is the "typical" glass cannon gear, you're basically stating them as the same except one might not use swords. This tiny division between arsenals is silly and if you really want to go about it, there are far more than what you've just listed. Gun Fu, the deprecated Medics, Assassins, Status comboers, subcategories of Guardians such as Parriers, Mobshifters and Haze tanks, and Utility classes (although these aren't gear-dependant) including Waterboys, Switch managers and Apocrean baiters, to name a few.

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 12:41

Melonfish

Equipping a Vitasuit Deluxe to help others was a scarce blessing

It's a shame that the various medical applications previously possible from the part of players have been replaced and essentially demoted to merely having spare Sparks of Life. This could never be compared to passing over Health and Remedy Capsules and/or your own Vitapod as well as using up an optimal portion of your health to get teammates back on their feet with a plentiful fighting chance.

At the very least, manually using up your active Emergency Revive to revive a fallen teammate should be an option.

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 13:44

Fangel

They can be different styles of play.

It just so happens that our only really good hybrid gear is also a glass cannon gear. Hybrids are also able to use, like, any sort of defensive armor, as are the guardians. Most other classes are not thought of that way. A glass cannon would not be glass in dragon scale, nor cannon in valkyrie.

Hybrids don't care about bonuses, they care about weapons. Likewise, glass cannons care about both bonuses and weapons, but not of a certain type.

Hence, for more hybrid specialization, I would love to have the sets I listed with mixed bonuses, such as a bomber-gunner, but discourages swords, or sword bomber that is a no-go to guns.

The idea for an actual medic is cool, but how would it be achieved via gear? We already have seraphynx's healing ability (and it's not exploitable either), so that's already sort of covered. We'd have to introduce a new thing into the game to really have a medic role take hold, but likewise, we would have to do that for many "new" classes.

I was getting at what sort of classes should we be given the tools to create? Anyone can be a hybrid, but not everyone can be a glass cannon or a guardian. Similarly, not everyone could be a scout/recon or a medic, but what sort of tools put into weapons, armor, battle sprites, etc. would you like to see to make a class of that sort possible?

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 15:40

Sipsy

Medic? You mean the guardian shield thing in lockdown?
If the lockdown shields were usable in pve, you'd need to increase the difficulty of the levels by a lot. Death mark from Recon, Striker circohs on mobs, Healing + Shield from Guardians. Kinda OP. Maybe at the core? eg. 6.9x hp of stratum 6 with 2x damahahgehhe. Might actually make the game co op and fun again though.

You forgot the fancy class - AKA The good looking class:
Winmillion + Cutters/Alchs coz alchs are cool + Swiftstrike + Coolest looking armor - the Hoodies and Cloaks. Not being helpful or practical at all, but being fansee 8D

Oh, and also the Goku Class (AKA Charge for 10 episodes class):
All 5 brandishes in one loadout, Acheron, the other 3 elemental ones I cant remember the names to and the Cautery sword. Gear would be Chaos set and shield could be anything

A class I'd like to see..
idk

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 16:43

Fehzor

I don't think "classes" are a good way to classify how players behave. If I'm a "striker" or "sword user" I probably shouldn't just use all brandishes all the time because having a gun to complement my brandishes would dramatically improve my play by letting me deal extra damage after knocking enemies away, hit switches at a distance while speed running, even fight mobs that my swords are bad against... compared to having say, the ability to use a different sword that does something similar to the one that I'm already using. This leaves us with one truly viable class that uses whatever they want to and three disadvantaged classes that restrict themselves to bombs, guns and swords because they like those for whatever reason.

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 17:22

Aurorra

I'd like to see a magic user

I'd like to see a magic user class added to the game.
They'd use a new weapon type that behaves like bombs in that it had no uncharged attack, but the charged attacks would projectiles, like a more powerful version of the charges on guns and the Sealed Sword/Brandish lines.

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 17:34

Sipsy

@ Aurorra,
Spiral Knights or Spiral Mage? ;o

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 18:01

Bopp

but the classes

one truly viable class that uses whatever they want to and three disadvantaged classes that restrict themselves to bombs, guns and swords because they like those for whatever reason

As you know, the reason is that historically the offensive armors have been specific to swords, guns, or bombs. Black Kat and the buffed Chaos throw everything out of balance, but there are still many players who are (reasonably) scared by the status penalties and don't have the resources to buy UVs to overcome them.

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 20:08

#10

Hexzyle

The idea for an actual medic is cool, but how would it be achieved via gear? We already have seraphynx's healing ability (and it's not exploitable either), so that's already sort of covered.

Medic involved wearing Vitasuit Deluxe with a Scarlet Shield, and making sure you didn't get hit (since you got rather crap defense) and instead immediately prioritizing giving your health to revive players who have better armor than you (and thus are able to use your health more efficiently)

Not leaving people dead on the ground meant that you didn't accidentally bump into a revive animation when you were in the middle of shooting monsters in a crowded area like an Arena, you got lots of heat and thanks, and you learnt how to correctly revive people reliably without standing there like an idiot comboing over a body.

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 21:23

#11

Fehzor

@Bopp

I meant as in choose swords/bombs/guns because they like that weapon type for whatever reason. Not that I don't understand why they would limit themselves.

Regarding the argument however, the key word you used would be historically-- there are a lot of good hybrid options being used today even without bringing chaos/black kat, namely of which are battle sprites (one extra weapon trinket/buff for free, on top of skills like valkyrie aura) and unique variants which have become far more common due to variant locking and crown inflation. I've found that much of the time bringing some combination of swords, bombs and guns is considerably stronger than just bringing one type and maxing out that one type, and that using any amount of chaos or black kat (especially in conjunction with so called class armor) can put you way over the top. But you're welcome to play the game however you'd like to.

@Classes I would like to see in game

I'd like to see the role of support expanded. There are currently a ton of support related bombing items and virtually no support options for gunners and sword users. Where is the stagger storm equivalent for handguns? Why aren't there any swords and guns that cause status effects as their main effects? The fire on items like combuster and magma driver are a joke compared to the associated damage, while the major selling point of ash of agni is its ability to deal fire. Similarly, more potent offensive bomber type weapons would be very much appreciated.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 07:55

#12

Tech-Star

Various

@Fangel

Since when has the gunslinger meta stopped using alchemers? Is it all just the two blitz needles now?

@Fezhor

For a guy stuck in 3* like me, without chaos or black mat, your options are a single set of class gear, and one type of weapon. Sprite bonuses are a joke until max level for damages. Also, yes, there are situtations any swordsman could use a gun, and gunslinger a sword, etc, but some people prefer their weapon's ways of dealing damage. That, and they probably can't afford the energy to buy extra weapon slots.

As for classes I want to see in game. Make events aviabale all year round so tortofists, black kat, and obsidian weapons are all actually get able to the general public. That way more sub classes.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 10:05

#13

Holy-Nightmare

@ Fangel

You forgot to mention the "Specialist" a knight whose armor provides the maximum power against a single monster family

Valkyrie set knights would be an example

The "Speedrunner" a knight more focused on quick level completion than defeating all the enemies

Mercurial sets and sets that focus on countering speed reducing status

The "Jack of all trades" Cobalt and Divine/IceQueen combo

This knight focuses on gear that is applicable in every situation, typically equips normal damage weaponry that allows for a wide range of play

Tue, 06/02/2015 - 10:33

#14

Fangel

Mhmm.

I'm probably missing quite a few "classes" for sure, but what other kinds of classes would you like to be be encouraged or introduced via gears we're given?
For all y'all trying to point me towards classes I've missed, I'm more than aware I missed some. I was working off the top of my head.

As for classes themselves, I'm not specifically saying "these are the classes set in stone". I'm more asking "What sorts of classes could we have or could be introduced via new gear?"
An example of introducing a new class would be a shield that lowers aggro on yourself when shielding, or increases aggro on yourself while shielding. Another would be giving certain combat bonuses and reducing other ones. A third would be giving more CTR options to things other than bombs.

Those are three examples of gears that could add a few more classes or enhance our current classes. The aggro shields would allow for a scout and a tank to become more viable. Specialist hybrids would be another great way to go. A CTR sword and gun armor would enhance our striker and gunslinger classes, however swords need it more since the gunner update's introduction.

Tue, 06/02/2015 - 12:21

#15

Hexzyle

An example of introducing a new class would be a shield that lowers aggro on yourself when shielding, or increases aggro on yourself while shielding.

I don't see the point of the former when you can just dash to drop all aggro anyway, and the latter is sort of already fulfilled by mist bombs.

Tue, 06/02/2015 - 13:06

#16

Fangel

Situational.

I originally suggested the aggro-lowering shield as a way to scout ahead for your team. Walk into an area with enemies with your shield raised, look at the big map, find the dead ends with loot in them. Opens the map up without having to fight anything, especially helpful with the newest addition to the tile sets where mobs aren't dropping anything.

Aggro-affecting shields would be helpful for larger targets, such as a dreadnaunt or a trojan. The player with a blitz may have aggro on them and shield removes/reduces aggro. Combine that with another player with an aggro-increasing shield, the trojan would look away from their cornered knight with enough time to put a blitz in their back. The vanaduke shiver bomber might also find it useful to use the aggro-lessening shield if the other players haven't grabbed Vanaduke's aggro yet or keep resetting aggro to the bomber.

We have current ways to play the game, sure. What I'm asking are what other potential ways could we play the game, given we were given the correct equipment? Right now we grab aggro via mist bombs. What if our armor did that naturally?

And it looks like the game masters moved this thread over to the suggestions forum, which while sorta in the right area... However I'm trying more to spark discussion than suggest anything outright.

Wed, 06/03/2015 - 03:45

#17

Hexzyle

What if our armor did that naturally?

Armor: Yes. Having the Plate Mail passively generate threat instead of slowing attacks would be an awesome change to the plate armors.

Wed, 06/03/2015 - 04:23

#18

Tree-Lper

Support Class

"The idea for an actual medic is cool, but how would it be achieved via gear? We already have seraphynx's healing ability (and it's not exploitable either), so that's already sort of covered."

So before the post on my proposal for this type of item, it might sound funny because I originally sent this and more to the support team of spiral knights, and they said to post it here on the forums, so please excuse any portions that may sound out of whack, as I just cut out the parts that focus on the items.

>>>To begin, I was thinking of something like a healing device to take a weapon slot. It can work like the guardian class in Lockdown. But to make sure people can't abuse it by just waiting around after every fight and just healing to max, you could add this criteria to balance it out.
> 1. It could make it to where each player has a sort of "blood bank" that stores pipes dependent on damage taken and received, and it can only be activated by the medic item. The bank could be 50% of the player's max health. After a certain amount of time outside of combat or of not being healed, the blood bank can start depleting over about 5 seconds and then run out. Healing or damaging/taking damage would reset the timer.
> 2. It would only fill up when you take damage, and it will fill up half the damage that was taken. For example, if you were hit for 5 pipes, it would fill up 2.5 pipes.
> 3. Damaging enemies could also fill it up but only at 1/8 of the amount that it would if you take damage, meaning that it would rise very slowly but still reward you for damaging the enemies instead of hiding.
> 4. When the medic item is used, anybody in the area will start healing the amount that is in the blood bank until it runs out.
>
> This would make it so that you still only heal when you are in combat since if you are just hiding you won't be filling the bank up. This would add a whole other role to the game and having working with teammates much more beneficial. You could also make it so that the person using the medic item either only has a blood bank of 1/8 their health (or even less than that), and have it so that the one holding the medic item only gets their blood bank to fill up when teammates do damage/take damage. That way people don't all just carry it around as an extra health kit. This would balance it so that only someone strictly playing support would be able to use the item effectively.
>
> A second item would be something like a crystal/device that increases damage, or increases defense in the area of effect, but only while the item is active (basically being charged, but have the effect like when shielding with the guardian class in lockdown). It would give the support a way to help teammates with a buff while they fill up their blood banks. The buff could only be active while he is using the item so if he were to switch to a different weapon or guard, the effect would run out.
>
> Another idea for these items could be that instead of holding the attack button and charging them up to have the effect occur, you could make it so that whatever weapon is active at the time will give the additional effect to that user's shield. So if the medic item was out, and he used his shield, the shield will have the area of effect range like the guardian class in lockdown, and start healing players from their blood bank, and when he switches the active weapon to say an attack buff, the shield could change to like orange and give an attack buff to that area instead of healing. Upgrading the weapons from 2 to 5 star could gradually effect the amount of damage the damage boost gives, the amount of defense the defense buff gives, and the speed of the healing from the healing kit along with the maximum amount it can heal from the blood bank.

Thanks for reading, and just saying, this has been a type of gameplay mechanic I have wanted for a very long time. I like playing support in other games like league of legends and killing floor so it would be fun to have this type of choice for gameplay in one of my favorite games.

To anyone that may not have been able to read the whole thing due to time constraints or just the fact that there are a lot of words, I will condense all the info to make it more easily understandable:

1. Medic item
-----Heals dependent on damage dealt/received
-----Lower healing on user and smaller blood bank
-----Will have the same effect as guardian class shield in lockdown, just won't protect from incoming damage.
-----Takes a weapon slot, or when active in weapon slot gives additional effect to shield to allow support to protect themself while healing allies.

2. Attack/Defense/Speed Buff Item
-----Works same way as Medic item, but gives one of the three buffs.
-----three separate items that only give one buff (Attack buff "module",Defense buff "Satellite", and Speed buff "whatever")
-----Only gives the effect if players are in aura, the second they leave the aura the effect disappears.

3. Rating and Heating item effects
-----When the item is 2*, it is a small radius and gives a weaker effect on the buff (small attack/defense/speed boost, or slow healing/small total blood bank)
-----When 3 4 and 5 star the effects get a larger radius with each upgrade and the effect is increased each time.

Wed, 06/03/2015 - 06:26

#19

Fehzor

@Tech-Star

Even as a 3* player it should be easy and beneficial for you to adopt a gun + sword strategy, or even a bomb + gun/bomb + sword strategy if you'd rather, though utilizing bombs will be harder due to their dependence on CTR. Beyond that though, you shouldn't be of the mind that you are stuck at 3* because the truth of the matter is that elite orbs cost 400 energy for 3, and that they're capable of dropping fairly easily toward the end of T2. 400 energy = ~32-34K crowns... and that's as a last ditch effort if you don't find them. In other words, if you can do T2 you can advance past T2 in terms of gear.

Some hybrid builds at 3* that don't use the 3* Seerus/black kat pieces-

Woven falcon shade armor/helm (or some form of padded lines)
Firotech alchemer MK II/Shadowtech alchemer MK II
Twisted snarble barb/sealed sword

This build would be aimed at being a "gunner" with a side sword. You'd focus on dealing damage with your alchemers, and then pull out your grintovec/twisted snarble barb whenever you need it. The snarble barb would be good for situations with beasts and fiends, while the sealed sword would give you a wide hit for use against slimes and construct, allowing you to close in on construct etc. Eventually, you'll be able to invest in charge time for guns/swords but starting out you won't need it.

An example with bombs-

Full fused demo
Fiery Vaporizer MK II/Toxic Vaporizer MK II (fully heated = +4 CTR, eventually +6 easily)
Tempered Calibur

The idea behind this would be to use tempered calibur whenever there aren't so many enemies (or weakened enemies) and the haze bombs whenever there are many enemies. The fiery vaporizer + toxic vaporizer combination can be incredibly versatile.

Wed, 06/03/2015 - 09:47

#20

Fangel

See that's what I want to see

A medic class that is useful in combat looks neat. However, the seraphynx does play a similar role. In fact, most of the battle sprites can do something similar with ultimates (seraphynx's iron heart attack, Drakon's buffing firestorm ultimate I forgot-the-name-of).
I do like what you've written up however. It works much better than a plain "gun that heals", or something like that. Perhaps the buff weapon could be like a gun that buffs teammates and debuffs monsters? Same shield idea to buff teammates, but when you charge the weapon it switches roles (att/def/spd). Could be like a catalyzer and tag enemies, and when they are hit next they get the debuff they were tagged with. Allows you to help teammates will still being in the fight instead of taking you out in order to buff them.

Wed, 06/03/2015 - 21:52

#21

Blandaxt

My Idea

My idea is very similar to your idea Tree-Lper. And i feel you should take a look at my thread sense it is very similar to your idea:

- http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/109997

This thread also portrays what i think about new ways to play sk by introducing these new types of gear titled SUMMONER GEAR.

Also, new ways we can play sk is to include more situational gear such as gear that reacts to certain types of statuses like fire, poison, shock, ice, stun and sleep. These gear will face that particular status and have an enviromental advantage above other players when affected with that status.

Well, hope you like my idea.

Thu, 06/04/2015 - 10:47

#22

Fangel

Hmm, that's true.

I've seen the idea for armors to react to certain statuses before, but that would be an interesting style of play. As of right now, the entire game revolves around not taking damage and dealing damage (as many games do). Even with defensive gears, we're encouraged to not get hit, and the defense is only to soften the blow if you do get hit.
Some sort of status reaction sets would be interesting. However, you can't make each individual piece have some special ability necessarily, unless it's a standalone item (like radiant silvermail or the seerus masks) because players will mix and match items for their own good.

Alternatively, if you do add special powers, have them work on the UV-scale system. Something like "low" or "medium" will not give the full effect. Let's say we have a toxoil gear all of a sudden that makes you burn longer, but walking into enemies lights them on fire and poisons them. Give each piece a "Poison spread chance: medium" and "Fire spread chance: high" per piece. Give maximum poison resist (+4) per piece and a negative fire resist (-2) per piece. You will also heal for 3 to 6 pips whenever you are lit on fire, 3 for one piece 6 for two (negative fire resist means more pain from fire, and this is a balance to it. Without a way to remedy yourself it's impossible to abuse that feature*).

Now the way those status spread things work is the higher the value, the less range you have to be in to spread the status. Let's say half a tile is 1 point. So if you have both pieces of that gear on you would spread poison to enemies within a 2 tile radius, and fire to enemies within a 3 tile radius while on fire.

That's all a brainstorm off the top of my head. Some sort of gear that actually encourages being inflicted with a status (perhaps valkyrie would get a spark of life-esk damage boost while cursed... Hell, that might even work on black kat or fallen as they'll be in a world of hurt) would be a completely different style of play. Only thing we'd have to do as well would be create a few more weapons with a self-inflicting status, and pronto, a new class is born.

*Technically you could heal slowly with this method using a fang of vog, CTR, and a lot of fire resistance. However, by using fire resistance, you are making yourself unable to use the armor's prime ability, which is spreading fire and poison to enemies. If you do not have a fang of vog, then you must take damage alongside being inflicted with a status outside of wisps. This method could alternatively heal players for half a pip anytime they take damage from fire, anything to actually encourage being lit on fire opposed to avoiding it.

Thu, 06/04/2015 - 16:40

#23

Blandaxt

I was thinking

I was thinking of a more situational boost that does not give back what is being inflicted, but increases the players fighting potential or allows the player to survive longer.

Here is an example: while the ironmight plate armor plus helm is worn by the knight, the knight will gain the ability to not receive any sort of knock back and flinch when getting hit. This means the player can attack without worrying about being pushed back or flinched. If there was a self stun inflict weapon it could be of help, but this is made for aiding the player when stunned by a monster as an extra boost. I would make it that each piece of the armor provides a small boost to the ability, but sense fangel mentioned that this would over complicate the system, i decided to not do that.

Instead, i will make it so that each new combination of gear that are compatible with each other will get a weak ability instead of a full ability from gears that are meant to be eith each other. So what do i mean by compatibility? What i mean is armors that enhances or matches the defense of the other armor being pared with. So something like cobalt armor and jelly helm are compatible with each other, cause both armors protect against piercing and normal damage. While a magic cloak and skelly armor are not compatible because one protects against elemental while the other ptotects against shadow. Now what is a weaken ability?

A weaken ability for the armor combination of cobalt helm and jelly armor could be will retain 1 pip of health after being killed by a piercing damaged source. This is not game breaking in my opinion sense this ability is very similar to sonic mode. While if the player was wearing the full jelly armor, they would gain increase defensive stats while under the sleep status and if they were wearing full cobalt armor, they would gain the ability to increase damage +1 low to all offensive gear while under any status.

Now i had one more idea where if a player was wearing the quick silver armor and helm, they would gain this ability while under the shock status called magnetic lure. This ability would allow the player to pull in any monster that is being targeted by the player to him. This would allow the player to bring the target to the knight and either spread the shock or kill it with an attack.

These abilities are meant to give the player an ability while under the affinity the armor is good against. Like i would not give quicksilver a fire ability cause it's not meant to defend against that status. This kind of system makes sure the ability last as short as possible so it will not be game breaking, gives the player an extra boost when facing that situation, and makes the player feel they are receiving a good exchange where they either lose health for that ability like after getting stun, being immune to flinch and knockback or have that ability activate under certain strict situations like the extra pip of health after being killed by a piercing source damage type.

Well what do you think?

Thu, 06/04/2015 - 17:05

#24

Fangel

Hmm.

Not quite what I was getting at with this thread, but an interesting idea on its own. What I'm trying to get at is how to make us knights play the game differently with potentially new gears, and what sorts of gear would actually change how we play. Special abilities on armors and helmets being mixed with each other is sort of its own thing.

The idea of mixing armors is sort of what players already do, but in my last post I sort of realized that in order to make special abilities happen, it can't really be a "this is on this part of the set, and this is on the other" for it to really work. Since, as far as I'm aware, we cannot "check" what the other part of the armor is, we can't really tell if we have both pieces of the armor on, and thus to activate a "power up". It seems more in-tuned with this game that you would get a power up, just have it be not as strong with only partial pieces.

For example, your magnetic lure idea... Being shocked while in a piece of quicksilver would draw in a monster within, say, 2 tiles. With both pieces, let's say it brings them in from up to 4 tiles.

I will say we shouldn't make every single gear have a special power. However, the point of this thread isn't necessarily to make new gear happen so much as see what other sorts of fighting styles we're missing, and what sorts of gear would fit both the game and that purpose. We don't have any gear in the game that benefits from playing being hit, so that's a great class we could add. Similarly, a medic or class that can heal themselves and others, within reason (i.e., nothing that you can just sit around healing from indefinitely), would be an interesting and new way to go.

Fri, 06/05/2015 - 09:27

#25

Blandaxt

well...

I was going to suggest have a piece of a full set of gear have half the ability, but i feel that could potentially complicate our gameplay and force players to wear incompatible armor. So i thought of having only armors that compliment each other would be able to have a sort of special ability.

But i understand what you are getting at little bit. Imagine if there was a berserker armor that grants the wearer the ability to get increase boost in everything such as movement speed, damage boost, attack speed boost, charge time reduction, etc. But these boost would only activate slowly as the wearers health deteriorates. Like if the wearers health is at full, no boost. If th wearers health is at 75%, low boost in everything. 50% medium boost, 25% high boost, and lastly 5% very high boost. This boost will not only include damage boost, but defensive boost also. This means that the armor will gain defensive values against all statuses as the player loses health. So the armor takes the damage taken from the monster as a sort food to increase the knights damage value. This means, the lower that players health is, the harder he becomes to kill and the more powerful the knight becomes. I feel this armor ahould be some kind of chaotic dragon type armor completed with it's own wings.

Now for some conditions for this armor. This armor has only normal defense and has no defense against any sort of status. And one negative aspect about this armor is that it is constanly hungry for the knights blood. This means that, when ever the player gets damaged, the armor will increase the damage taken by the monster by 10%. This means when ever tou get hurt, the armor will take 10% damage value and hurt the player more with it. So any sort of monster will be hitting the player harder then that monster damages other players.

Another condition is that the player must be around a monster/target to get the boost. So if the player is just traveling through corridors of trap doors or breaking blocks, ect, but no targets around, then the player will not get any of the boost. So just getting hurt and having low health will not give the player any boost.

I was also thinking that another gear rather than armor which can have an opposite ability of the armor i proposed could be the more the player kills, while having that gear, the more powerful that gear gets or the more powerful the knight gets if it is a defensive gear like an armor. These conditions can be restricted by putting a strict conditions like if the knight stops killing for 5 minutes, the boost will fade. These abilities are all situational and not permanent like the black cat armor.

Fri, 06/05/2015 - 10:32

#26

Fangel

Hmm.

A "berserker" class would be interesting to have. I would also say give each part universal "low" penalties (maybe not to certain things, such as damage), such that you can't get VH bonuses across the board. I would also say have each part activate at certain percentages, such as 50% gives a low boost to everything + medium to defenses, and under 15% gives a medium boost to everything + maximum! to defenses (both of these are per-piece).
In order to make there be more berserker gears than just the one, we make one for each damage type (piercing, shadow, elemental) which all have a low resistance to two, non-standard for their type statuses. Elemental may have poison and freeze, shadow have shock and stun, piercing have fire and stun. On top of that, the gear will have -1 to all other statuses across the board. This means that at under 50% health you have +3 to the naturally resisted statuses, and +1 to all others, and under 15% you have minor immunity to two (with a low UV, moderate as well), and +6 to all other statuses.

Building on this idea, potentially we could make an armor that have a higher chance of making enemies drop power-up orbs. If we get the code into the game for health-related situations from the above (however it might be tricky there... What happens if you're on fire but then suddenly get minor fire immunity? I'd say keep the status as is but make future statuses the less painful ones) then we could potentially make it so that orbs drop at certain health percentages, such as speed up at 100%, attack up at 50%-99%, and defense up at 1%-49%. Granted, other orbs will still drop normally, but this means you can get orb power ups more or less determined on your skill level. If there's nothing to kill, no benefit. Depending on how well you're doing (getting hit a lot means defense up to make sure you don't feel as much pain. Getting hit a little bit means you can bite back harder. Not getting hit at all means you'll be zipping around, dodging even more attacks) you'll be more likely to get orbs that complement you, and give you power ups in places you can't normally (i.e., swarm monsters, respawning enemies).

I do sincerely like the idea of a class that's designed to get hit. Many games now-a-days have that class in effect, but Spiral Knights doesn't have it, nor would it necessarily be hurt by having it, especially since health revives are no longer in game so if you use that armor you're only risking your health, not your party's health as a whole.

Fri, 06/05/2015 - 12:03

#27

Blandaxt

agreed!

I agree to Most your post fangel. Though i feel getting rid of the damage taken negative boost removes the danger in wearing this armor. Right now armors that gives boost in everything like the chaotic robe and the black cat has negatives toward statuses to show that wearing the armor would leave the players defenses vulnerable in exchange for the boost in damage values.

But for me that is more of a hinderance then showing that the armor is actually dangerous. Having the armor actually eat at the players health by inflicting 10% of the damage taken unto the players health gives the armor the feeling like it's actually eating up at the players body. This danger though will be more diminished as the player loses health because the knight would gain more powerful defenses all around as their health decreases, therefore reducing the amount of damage taken and therefore reducing the amount of damage the armor takes from the players health. This means the danger the armor poses will be reduced as the player gets stronger. Like the percentage of the armor still eats from the knights health will remain 10%, but sense the player will take less damage from increased defenses, the armor will also take less health.

Also, you are correct that the statuses that are inflicted upon the knight are based on current defenses and not future increased defenses.

I completely agree to having a minus to some status at neutral, but when the players defenses start to kick in, the armor will also gain defenses to other damage types. This means if an armor starts with having piercing, elemental, and shadow, it should have a low or medium defense against that damage type. I say low or medium because the knight would gain increase defense in those damage types also.

Fri, 06/05/2015 - 13:19

#28

Fangel

Hmm.

I liked the idea of having the statuses be overall boosted, but in terms of different damage types I was sorta iffy on it. As long as we split up the armors into 3 categories (normal and split other damage types) we're fine, no need to give shadow resistance to the elemental berserker.

However, you could do something interesting and make the berserkers take more damage from the types they don't resist. That would be interesting. As such, when at less than 15% health, they would be taking normal damage (i.e., normally they have a max negative resistance to the damage type). This means, as a berserker, if you're trying to lose your health, you would try to get hit by the other type of damage if it's present in the level.

This would also make the armor much squishier in lockdown, so that you need to use a separate damage type than they kind they resist. At the same time, while fighting a berserker, the more you hurt your enemy, the more they hurt you back.

And on a semi-related note, what if we had a "final stand" sort of armor ability? When you have all your health depleted, you are given a MSI decrease and ASI increase equal to that of the final stand value, and it lasts for power of ability *1.25 seconds.
What does this mean?
If you have two pieces of gear with this ability, say "Final Stand Power: Medium" each, then once all your health is depleted you would get a MSI decrease of Very High, an ASI increase of Very High, and you would stay in the fight for 5 seconds (+4 from the Very High boost, +1 second from the bonus) before going down. Potentially you can have it so if you gain health via heart drops during this countdown period, you stay alive, however retain the bonus/debuff and your shield will not naturally regenerate (i.e., you must use a seraphic aura to heal your shield, and if it breaks/gets damaged again it's perma-damage until the aura again). You stay in this state until you either go down naturally (which you will now do instantly instead of delayed), or your effects will be reset upon reaching full health.

This ability allows you a second chance when you do go down, and maybe even save a run from going sour. In lockdown, if you killed your opponent and got their heart drop, you could slowly make your way back to base to heal up (lack of shield regen means striker boost would not regenerate), or die to the next striker who zips up and pelts you with a valiance attack.

From this thread we now have several stand-alone suggestions for new classes, such as: Berserker (low health = high rewards), Status Boost (bonus when inflicted with a status), and if it seems reasonable, Undying Knight (Final stand ability). All these come from the root idea of a class taking damage for a reason.

We can keep suggesting other take-damage armors/abilities, but are there other potential classes that might have a spot in Spiral Knights?

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What other classes would you like to see in Spiral Knights?