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We need a NEW heating system.(Discussion)

20 replies [Last post]
Sun, 05/31/2015 - 16:10
Pery-Alaois's picture
Pery-Alaois

NOTE: Before you thrash me about putting this in the suggestions forum, I don't know where to put this. I am suggesting it, put I don't have a clear, exact idea, and it's also a discussion. Feel free to tell me if I should move this to the suggestions forum(but please, don't be mean about it). There have been other suggestions about the heating system, but this one is different, because it's about replacing it rather than fixing it, or removing it.

This current heating system, called the "Forge"(stealing the name from Punch, huh?) is a big pain. Ya'll already know that. But neither the old heating system nor fixing the current one will do justice. The devs need to scrap this "Forge" and replace it with a new heating system.

But what will that new system be?

Hmm.... we could have a system in which the heating is slower, with fire crystals speeding up the process; or one that has heat being crafted into fire crystals to be used to heat the equipment...

...anything that lets heat be desirable and heating being SLOW enough at the same time.

Do you guys have any ideas? Then type them(this is a discussion, after all.).
-Pery

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 16:14
#1
Finale-Flare's picture
Finale-Flare
The current system is ok. I

The current system is ok.

I think all we need to fix the current system is to enable crafting up fire crystals (make, say, 3 radiants per 5 shinies)

Though let's be real. OOO implemented this system to severly slow down progression of making fully leveled gear in order to match the speed at which they are comfortable releasing updates. Gone are the days of being able to heat a 5* item in 2 vana runs.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 16:25
#2
Pery-Alaois's picture
Pery-Alaois
I know they implemented it to

I know they implemented it to slow down progression, I just think it's too slow and too demanding.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 16:51
#3
Bopp's picture
Bopp
okay, but

Okay, but we've already had well over a hundred threads on this topic, many of which give more concrete ideas than you have. So you might want to read them. If you don't want to read them, then maybe you can understand why players might not want to read your thread either.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 20:31
#4
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle

and it's also a discussion

All threads on forums are discussions. That's what forums are for. It's a matter of whether it's a discussion of the game in general, most often for topics that do not fit in any other category, or a discussion of a should-be feature, which goes in the suggestions.
Discussing a current feature, but not suggesting a fix would fit into General Discussion. Suggesting a new feature and comparing it to the current one would fit into Suggestions.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 20:44
#5
Thagx's picture
Thagx
You should have moved this

You should have moved this thread to suggestion in the first place as you are suggesting something. As Bopp already said, look for some threads with this discussion, as there are many.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:37
#6
Melonfish's picture
Melonfish
The sound effect that plays everytime I toggle the Forge menu...

The Heat system is fine as it is. The Forge system is really what ought to be reworked, if it is to be kept at all.

Should we have remained with the Heat system, the most acceptable and stable change (and I wager a simple one at that) would be to increase the heat requirement for an item to level-up by a significant ratio. Not only would players be unrestricted by which tiers they need to venture in to upgrade their equipment and therefore be unhindered by a luck-based collectathon in order to progress, but Heat Amplifiers would find far more useage (the fundamental selling point of an Useable) and reason to be purchased in-game.

The Forge's advent and infamous development in implications shattered that very balance and created many infuriating problems as a result. I have no ill opinions on those who tolerate the system, but I insist strongly that the game should much rather be rid of its emprise entirely. Not the Forge system by itself, but its severe bottleneck influence on players' flow of progression. There must certainly be a way to repurpose the Forge in a way that will impeccably benefit the game, the players and the development team.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 08:31
#7
Thagx's picture
Thagx
Id rather have the crystals

Id rather have the crystals system instead of the most system. It isn't a big pain. Getting radiants might be a little difficult, but with a little effort you can get a five star item to level ten in a week. All the other crystals are easy to get. So the new system is better. The spiral knights team also needs people to buy things from the game, to keep it running,. People used to buy CE before the new system came up. Now that they removed mist, people don't buy CE as much as they used to before. So as a replacement they got crystals to keep the game running for US.

Wed, 06/03/2015 - 17:56
#8
Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
Honestly, normally I hate

Honestly, normally I hate these repeat suggestions, but this forge system is so messed up any exposure will help. CHANGE IT.

Thu, 06/04/2015 - 03:25
#9
Thagx's picture
Thagx
@Aemicus

"this forge system is so messed up any exposure will help."
Would you rather have the mist system? Even the spiral knights team needs a way to earn the money to keep the game running.[no personal attacks please]

Thu, 06/04/2015 - 14:34
#10
Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
@Thagx

I'm sorry, did I ask for the mist system? Maybe you'd like to put more words in my mouth.

We had a good system before, where heat translated directly into levels. The Spiral Knights team added radiants in order to slow progression so they could continue to add content before people maxed out everything they could. However, they corrected too far with the radiants and put a stranglehold that has lowered everyone's enjoyment. Instead, they should have just made lowered how much heat increased weapon levels. Not only would this allow players to level up weapons in a continuous manner, but it would push people to actually buy heat amplifiers, earning more money for the team.

[No name calling please]

Thu, 06/04/2015 - 15:07
#11
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
agreed!

Agreed with aemicus that the heat system proposed would have been a much more desirerable change thwn the radiant system we have now. Right now, it feels like i'm continuously building straw houses out of hidden straws. The house being my player and the straws being the radiants.

Thu, 06/04/2015 - 21:47
#12
Corinthmaxwell's picture
Corinthmaxwell

Bringing any sort of "balance" to the heating & forging system would be a long & complicated process, no matter how they went about it. The first thing they should do is trash the portion of forging where you have to add Fire Crystals with every heat level, because having to add Fire Crystals level after level does nothing but waste excess generated heat, particularly when at any given time, any given item only needs a small amount of heat to bring it to the next level. An alternative solution would be to require users to collect the requisite amount of heat needed to bring an item to Lv. 10, and THEN require them to add their Fire Crystals, all at once, in order to fully unlock that item's Lv. 10 potential. This way, they're still able to heat an item, collect the Fire Crystals they need for it, and not have to worry about wasting heat or delaying their progress because they're not ready to "forge" yet.

A lot of people (including me) have also suggested that the number of Fire Crystals needed to fully bring out an item's potential should be lowered. This is something that I feel everyone can agree on, because there's no sense whatsoever in what amounts to practically throwing away Fire Crystals in the hopes that using less than the maximum amount per heat level will allow a player to advance their item(s) to the next heat level. With that in mind, the amount of Fire Crystals required for each item at each star level should be divided by three, and retain the "100% chance to forge" that the current maximum amount has. No more burning away Fire Crystals, no more "forge gambling" (other than the current random chance for double level-ups, heat bonuses, and Forge Prize Boxes)......just a simple, standard method of forging items that doesn't leave the player feeling needlessly cheated by some arbitrary "random failure".

Now, then.....I know you're all thinking that they can't just lower the Fire Crystal requirements without there being something to balance it, right? The simplest (and most obvious) way to do this is to dramatically increase the amount of heat that has to be collected per heat level.....for example, requiring the player to collect 8x, 12x, or maybe even 16x the amount of heat in order to bring each of their items to Lv. 10. Doing this would also have the added bonus of making Heat Amplifiers as useful as they were before the Forge system was introduced, especially if the benefits of the amplifiers were allowed to be stacked like the Krogmo Coin Boosters, albeit up to a maximum of three (i.e., 6x the amount of heat gained for as long as the amplifiers were active) at one time.

These are just suggestions, though......but as far as I'm concerned, this would be the best way to go about improving the now-current heating system.

Thu, 06/04/2015 - 22:55
#13
Thagx's picture
Thagx
Errr.

Instead, they should have just made lowered how much heat increased weapon levels.

People will then start complaining about how slow the heat up is. Nothing is good enough. A game is supposed to be challenging. If you can finish a game overnight, what's the point? This is a type of game which attracts a person to play more, everyday. The game is supposed to last longer and never end. To make it last longer there are radiants. The never end part refers to Lockdown or Prestige missions.

Sat, 06/06/2015 - 16:53
#14
Melonfish's picture
Melonfish
Is that really going to be the last word on the subject?

It is still not a proper stand-in example for either challenge or replay value, nor does it provide any respectable or lasting benefits.

Increasing the heat curve to level up is a widely more acceptable alternative. I am quite certain the resulting complaints, should there be any, would be way too soft to come close to outweighing either the suggested alternative or the existing complaints over the Forge. Of course, the answer to the complaints over how longer it takes to level up via heat would simply be for the players to commit to extended playtime of their own and/or obtain then activate a Heat Amplifier.

Sat, 06/06/2015 - 22:23
#15
Zinqf's picture
Zinqf
Whoa, Whoa what?

Wait a second...there's a system in place that slows down the heating of weapons?! It caps at every level until you upgrade it with this "forge"? I've apparently missed a lot of things over the last couple of years. Please don't tell me that upgrading weapons has a chance to break **cringe**

I was thinking about starting a new account, but this would mean leaving behind a few dozen fully leveled five star items. How long does it take to fully heat a 5 star item now?

Sat, 06/06/2015 - 22:53
#16
Melonfish's picture
Melonfish
Thankfully nothing really breaks. Other than cosmetics.

Fully heating a weapon is the same as it was before the Battle Sprite Update, it was not hindered at all. However, leveling up requires the use of Fire Crystals with the corresponding star rank. Forging will never fail at the optimal setting (3x), but it thoroughly costly. Lesser settings (1x and 2x) use up far less Fire Crystals, but offer less bonuses and have a chance of causing a dud.

Sun, 06/07/2015 - 01:25
#17
Thagx's picture
Thagx
@Melonfish

If they replace the forge system with your preferred idea, the Spiral Knight's Team will not be able to make money, as people will stop buying CE as much as they do now. Of course the CE prices will go up then, and there will be chaos.

Sun, 06/07/2015 - 09:11
#18
Melonfish's picture
Melonfish
My parrot died.

They can still manage plenty of income without the Forge, seeing as Fire Crystals in the Supply Depot are not tagged with desirable prices for most players. The global spending of CE on Fire Crystals is surely quite low compared to the majority of other commodities, there is much more for them to make money from. Besides, I am completely certain that lessening the incentive to buy them in favor of that of purchasing Heat Amplifiers would greatly benefit both the developers and the players.

On top of that, they could alternatively simply retain the Forge as it is without making it mandatory for weapons to level up. The Forge bonuses such as 25% Heat Gain and Double Level-Up would prove to be extremely valuable, especially moreso the higher the heat curve would be. The general idea is to make the Forge optional and not obligatory.

Sun, 06/07/2015 - 10:50
#19
Corinthmaxwell's picture
Corinthmaxwell
@Zinqf: #1. @Thagx: #2.

#1. Assuming that you can obtain a minimum of approx. 30 Radiant Fire Crystals from the Rank 9-2 mission "The King of Ashes" with every run, you would need to run the mission 15 or more times. Unfortunately, considering how the average player is more than likely not going to be able to get more than six or nine Radiants in any given FSC run (yay for RNGs), you can see how this strategy becomes less & less appealing over time. >.<

#2. CE prices are already higher than they should be, because of OOO's decision to no longer have prize boxes as an added bonus when purchasing CE. It wasn't one of their more intelligent decisions for the game in general, and quite frankly, I (still) fail to understand why they would want CE to be less available to players who were more than willing to buy as much of it as they could in order to get the prize boxes that used to come with it. Things were a lot better when you were guaranteed to get something that was actually worth the money you spent for it, instead of the way things are now, where you're expected to hand over your hard-earned money for the random chance to get a random rare costume item or an equally-rare "special re-skinned weapon". :/

Sun, 06/07/2015 - 11:17
#20
Bopp's picture
Bopp
one idea

CE prices are already higher than they should be, because of OOO's decision to no longer have prize boxes as an added bonus when purchasing CE. It wasn't one of their more intelligent decisions for the game in general, and quite frankly, I (still) fail to understand why they would want CE to be less available to players who were more than willing to buy as much of it as they could in order to get the prize boxes that used to come with it.

I think that the system is more complicated than that. For example, high energy prices incentivize the spending of real-world money on energy, because players can get more crowns per dollar/euro/yuan/whatever.

It's doubtful that Three Rings are idiots. Probably they collect lots of data about how players spend money and tune their economic policies accordingly. Their tuning will never be perfect, but it's probably pretty good, for some mixture of player satisfaction and company profit.

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