1. Suggestions subforum. Use it.

2...

"Heck even as Vanguard I have trouble getting this much money playing everyday."

I think you're spending too much time in haven. That depth doesn't have that good of a payout. In fact, it ranks exactly last for treasure boxes and monster crowns/heat. It takes me less than 1.5hrs to get 20kcrn. If you're having trouble keeping crowns to roll for UVs, I suggest taking a better look at what you're spending it all on.

To some extent this is a PvE vs. PvP issue. It seems that you can't perfectly balance both at the same time. (In fact, both are way out of balance, for example in armor. But that's not my point here.) For example, piercing swords and brandishes were pretty well balanced for PvE, until piercing sword length was nerfed for the sake of PvP.

In PvE, unique variants are definitely a luxury. In PvP, they are not strictly necessary of course, but they do disbalance the game a bit.

It seems to me that Three Rings focuses more on PvE design than on PvP design. That's good, I think. PvE is Spiral Knights' "core competency", and PvP is an extra, optional feature. But it does mean that Spiral Knights will probably never be a great game for PvP enthusiasts.

@Waterbeat, what kind of backwards logic is that? Having CTR Max and Damage Max is so important that people are willing to sacrifice their defenses for them, so your logic is to even further widen the gap between people with UVs and those without by trying to beat down chaos users?

No. The answer is to make UVs available enough that you don't need to use chaos to cap those stats, so using chaos needlessly hurts you. Would that cause some power creep? Sure. But we've been farming FSC for 4 years. We can get some power creep and then raise the bar of difficulty with core strata etc.

There isn't no cost. The difference between chaos and a fire resistance set is the difference between being potentially 1-shot by a fire attack or barely taking any damage at all. But because damage max and CTR max are just so mandatory to the game (someone with no bonuses doing potentially 25% of the DPS of someone with DMG MAX and CTR max, not to mention how long you're exposed charging costing you defensively) players often just take the hit to be viable. One, two, three, five, all of the status effects could be thrown into a level and people would still use chaos because you just ****ing need it. Period.

The solution is not trying to make life harder for chaos players. The solution is to make other armor competitive with chaos by making it realistic and viable to DPS with traditional gear.

You can't realistically expect to have UV VH on the majority of an arsenal as a F2P. Shoot, you can't even expect that for players who spend less than a hundred dollars on the game. It is odd, most games the power curve begins to flatten out near the top end, where a premium player and F2P player might have like a 5 or 10% difference in power. In SK, you might end up with double the HP and status immunity and potentially bonus damage while a F2P has negative status resistance.

Although to be honest, I don't expect things to change one way or the other.

Trades can occur anywhere, therefore they can occur in Haven too. Don't see how that invalidates what he said.
Perhaps you should be more precise.

I will take your statement at face value and assume you truly do not understand.

I am not sure why you are posting the responses in reverse order. As most people read the conversation forwards, not backwards, I will go in that order.

#0:
Heck even as Vanguard I have trouble getting this much money playing everyday.

Paintool has stated his problem.

Post #2:

I think you're spending too much time in haven. That depth doesn't have that good of a payout. In fact, it ranks exactly last for treasure boxes and monster crowns/heat.

This assumes however, the only method of gaining money is from boxes/monsters. Something Spiral-Spy mentions reply #3:

I would also disagree that the Haven depth has poor payout.

Now, I can't blame you for not checking his link, as you have expressed distaste for his website in the past. However, you seem to have an idea that about what he is talking about

Trades can occur anywhere. Haven, as a depth, gives the player nothing.

The statement, "Trades can occur anywhere", while technically correct, does not disprove what he has said. Instead of countering his argument, you have only helped his point. If this was your intention, it was not clear.

Thus this statement, "Haven, as a depth, gives the player nothing." is either false or not sufficiently clear. If you did mean to repost what you said in reply #2, then that's already been proven false, and your statement in #9 has meant nothing. But, I assumed you may have been trying to say something more than that, and I asked for clarification.

@Flowchart

"I am not sure why you are posting the responses in reverse order."

I responded to the what you were referring to first, then provided previous evidence. It didn't seem logical to assume you were referring to the first of my comments when you were commenting about #9's only.

"This assumes however, the only method of gaining money is from boxes/monsters."

When referring to "depth payout", I dont find that to be a bad assumption. If I make a trade during FSC to net a profit of 50kcrn, would you say that my my FSC run got me 61kcrn? I believe everyone should differentiate into 11kcrn from FSC and 50kcrn from a trade (that just coincidentally was made during FSC). That same logic should be applied to Haven - the depth itself gives you nothing, but it can be used as a good place to find possible trades. If you still beg to differ, then I once made ~250kcrn on a tortodrone run.

"If you did mean to repost what you said in reply #2, then that's already been proven false, and your statement in #9 has meant nothing."

Please provide evidence that it is false. I want to open treasure boxes and kill monsters in haven. There is a difference between being false and having a "bad assumption". I defend the (until now implicit) assumption that depth payout should be differentiated from trade profit.

Merchanting is a high risk endeavor and a whole different can of worms for argumentation/discussion. Simply stating that you can use Spiral-Spy's tool to track sales will give you profit is disingenuous. Many people in the stock market have full knowledge of how much they buy and sell for. Not everyone playing the stock market makes money - but everyone knows how much they make/lose. Some might also argue that the experienced traders in markets often make money off the inexperienced traders. While the stock market is a good analogy, it doesn't quite capture all aspects of this game economy (mostly because traded items have value from supply/demand as well).

@Hexzyle

Exactly my point - thus me not understanding Flowchart's position.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/109660#new

This person is selling a poison max volcanic plate helm, if that's of any help