Spiral Knights - MORAL BUTTON DEBATE

MORAL BUTTON DEBATE

35 replies [Last post]

Mon, 06/08/2015 - 22:36

Hexlash

I need you guys (Spiral Knights community) to settle a debate me and some friends are having.

In this hypothetical situation, there was a button in front of you. If you pressed the button you'd sacrifice yourself to save the lives of 10 000 random strangers' lives. If you walk away from the button, they would all die. If you save the lives, you don't get any credit for it.
No loopholes, just save the lives and sacrifice yourself, or don't save them and live a full life.

Do you press, or walk? (Why?)

Current tally:
[5:3] [no:yes]

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 00:02

Exiled-Gremlin

It's a dilemma about either

It's a dilemma about either you or 10,000 strangers will be alive.
I would walk away because I mostly give no care about strangers lives, however, I can't affirm that my life wouldn't change after my decision...
Run away!

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 00:27

Midnight-Dj

Is there a way I can press the button half way, cripple for life but saving 5000 people? So at least that one when that 5000 people get madat me I would point at my wheel chair, I lost my legs to save you guys, so be grateful.

If that isn't a choice, then I would chop my left hand off and press the button with it (ouch), if I die, big deal, but if I live and safe that 10 000 people then that would be the best outcome since the only thing that was sacrificed was my left hand.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 00:44

Hexlash

Sorry Midnight, no loopholes or compromises.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 00:59

Midnight-Dj

^oh well

Press the button, for death is the final unknown.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 01:51

Matikclocker

One sacrifice = 10000 guys alive.

I would press the button, but only because I can respawn...
If you can evade death, they you can press the button.
But that's one person who will die.
Not pressing the button causes mass deaths.
So press the button.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 03:52

Vohtarak-Forum

I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

He means no respawning, you die and you're dead forever

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 07:20

Start-End

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTXfAtckS3g (Living with jigsaw)

Answer: Save them and sacrifice myself.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 11:19

Fight-Beetle

My answer?

I would choose myself, instead of the 10k anonymous people, that I do not know, whose intentions are not clear, and who are not reliable and could be useless. Would I make the world a better place with my sacrifice? No, and would my rescuees be grateful and become better? No, for they know not of me. Trouble me not with these questions that may or may not be veritable, and inquisition somebody else to make the choice if you wish to see someone press the button.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 14:48

Deleted-Knight

Playing hero is not always the right thing to do. I need more information.
Why are those people's lives in danger? How do I know there is absolutely no chance of me surviving? How do I know those people are guaranteed to live if I die?

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 15:31

#10

Hexlash

A Wolver's Purpose

There are no circumstances or situations to consider.

If you don't press the button, ten thousand people will spontaneously die, completely, utterly random. If you do, you will instantly die, and everyone will go on not knowing anything had happened, and would continue living their lives, however long they have left.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 22:09

#11

Deleted-Knight

Hmm, in that case I would not press the button.

Rationale:
People spontaneously die all the time. Consider all the people in the world. How many die every hour? Pressing the button is equivalent to me committing suicide so 10,000 of those people can live longer (and I don't even know how long they will live).

Wed, 06/10/2015 - 09:33

#12

Krakob

Don't press button, work against overpopulation, know you finally did something with your life. gg

Wed, 06/10/2015 - 10:56

#13

Holy-Nightmare

.....

Does "full life" include a very attractive spouse, nice car, nice house, good job, etc?

Wed, 06/10/2015 - 13:59

#14

Hexlash

A Wolver's Purpose

@Krakob and Deleted-Knight, see, both those arguments were made on the no side, but the pressers argue that that's shallow and unethical.

@Holy, if those things are going to happen then yes. For all I know you could die by slipping on some ice ten minutes after pressing the button. The point of the button is that all it does is kill you or ten thousand people. There is no other effect it has.

Wed, 06/10/2015 - 14:10

#15

Krakob

Shallow? I'm the one arguing about the long term effects of pressing! Overpopulation could ultimately result in a lot more deaths.

Wed, 06/10/2015 - 14:36

#16

Midnight-Dj

@Krakob

Depopulation could also result in a lot death you know.

Wed, 06/10/2015 - 14:50

#17

Krakob

But mostly a lot of emigration to mars, amirite?

Thu, 06/11/2015 - 01:08

#18

Matikclocker

Oh no, Krakob ruins this thread...

>_> Did you forget our arguing about blaming me for asking about rules and info about Splatoon? >_>

Thu, 06/11/2015 - 03:04

#19

Krakob

Absolutely not, but I'm glad that you have accepted that you're a squid now.

Thu, 06/11/2015 - 07:47

#20

Matikclocker

Ok Krakob, looks like this

Ok Krakob, looks like this argument is over, I will move the Splatoon discussion graveyard, and I will be a squid for you. Ok?

Thu, 06/11/2015 - 08:06

#21

Krakob

Only if you'll also be a kid now.

Thu, 06/11/2015 - 09:55

#22

Matikclocker

Ok, I will be a kid squid, is

Ok, I will be a kid squid, is that ok?

Thu, 06/11/2015 - 13:50

#23

Fangel

oh come on

No need to throw spam into an actual discussion. Comeon now, people...

Now personally? Personally I wouldn't press the button if I knew the implications of it all. I mean, if it's a big shiny red button I'll want to push it because it's a big shiny red button, not because I'm saving people.

People die every day. I'm going to die one day, and if it's because of a hypothetical button whatever. Call me selfish or shallow, but unless I have a real purpose for doing something I wouldn't do it. If those 10,000 people were people critical for the preservation of earth and I knew it, perhaps I would push the button... But absolute and complete strangers? Nah.

Thu, 06/11/2015 - 23:44

#24

Hexlash

A Wolver's Purpose

Since non-pressers are winning, here's an argument my friend posed:

Statistically speaking, wouldn't at least one of those ten thousand people live a better life than you and contribute more to the world? After all, 1 < 10 000.

Fri, 06/12/2015 - 00:49

#25

Exiled-Gremlin

@Hexlash

10,000 ppl > 1 doesn't mean it's better in quality, what if 10 thousand ppl in total would live the same life as me? When it comes to a question about whom it's easier to satisfy with current resources, what would you choose?
No, when it comes to choose between yourself and absolutely random people, I choose myself only. For saving them you won't get anything but only death, you won't know if your risk was acquitted; for not letting them be alive you'll save yourself and you shoild value your life more significantly.
My answer is walk away still.

Fri, 06/12/2015 - 03:51

#26

Midnight-Dj

10,000 ppl > 1 doesn't mean it's better in quality

I guess you never heard of the term 'quantity has a quality of its own.' then.

No, when it comes to choose between yourself and absolutely random people, I choose myself only.

Hexlash, would you kindly graveyard this thread? I still want to have some form of faith in this rotten pile of humanity that only cares for itself.

Fri, 06/12/2015 - 08:51

#27

Hexlash

A Wolver's Purpose

@Midnight, the score is only 5 to 3, it's not that drastically different.

@Mech and whoever else cares to refute it, here's some more retaliation:
How do you know that your life will be better than all theirs combined? How is that a logical assumption to make?
And a metaphor: If you had an apple, and could give it away to receive 5 random apples from home, wouldn't you want to do it, because the probability of getting more than one good apple is high?

(Just a disclaimer, I do not endorse the opinion being expressed in the counter arguments, I'm just supplying them.)

Fri, 06/12/2015 - 09:48

#28

Exiled-Gremlin

I can be an internet hero two

@Midnight-Dj
The meaning of quality in your quote is unclear and the point of your quote doesn't work always, it depends on many factors.
I kindly wish you to call me Mechzhar, not a rotten pile of humanity that only cares for itself or you gonna be digged deep in graveyard with this thread, honorable naive piece of nothingness. I can be an internet hero too, but it doesn't give me any respect. Also, you don't have any valid
proof to call me that. (You started this, now you have to respond for that)

@Hexlash
Do you give it a hundred-percent assurance about peoples lives, those, that shoild be better than mine? I'm more sure about myself because I know myself better and I can be either wrong or right about my statement (not gonna comment on metaphor though, sorry about that).
I strongly recommend to graveyard this thread or it's gonna be a timeless debate, which would prove nothing but waste our time.

P.S. No-pressers still win, gg guys.

Fri, 06/12/2015 - 09:53

#29

Matikclocker

Really?

I will press the button for you. BAM! And you are dead.

Fri, 06/12/2015 - 10:13

#30

Exiled-Gremlin

Any additions for your

Any additions for your decision, fellow knight?

Fri, 06/12/2015 - 10:30

#31

Hexlash

A Wolver's Purpose

I never meant for this thread to be graveyarded. The whole point was to provoke debate and evoke different opinions and arguments. However, if it really does perturb people being exposed to others' opinions in nothing but a looping bicker, I guess I can give it the boot.

Fri, 06/12/2015 - 11:25

#32

Red-Galaxy

for me

I would push the button not to save them, but to just end it all.

I lost all faith in humanity after finding out Zayn left one direction

Fri, 06/12/2015 - 15:57

#33

Deleted-Knight

Midnight-Dj,
It's not so much about selfish vs altruistic as it as about perspective. Two things happen when you press the button. Which is the "primary" action? The people who press the button think the primary action is saving 10,000 people. People who don't press the button think the primary action is killing yourself.

Statistically speaking, wouldn't at least one of those ten thousand people live a better life than you and contribute more to the world? After all, 1 < 10 000.
Statistically speaking, the entire planet earth is just a blip in the vast universe. Humans contribute nothing to the universe's existence. That logic also suggests letting handicapped people die so resources can be conserved for those who contribute more to society.

Here's a twist:
Suppose you are in the situation. You press the button and die. It turns out the 10,000 other people die an hour later anyways. But since you are dead, you don't know that. You died thinking you just saved 10,000 people when all you did was commit suicide.

Fri, 06/12/2015 - 18:24

#34

Hexlash

A Wolver's Purpose

The way I thought about it, the button doesn't do anything but kill whoever presses it. You could be ignorant to the button and 10 000 people would die, but if you press the button, you die and nothing else happens.

It's not about saving those people, it's about preventing their deaths.

Sat, 06/13/2015 - 03:48

#35

Thagx

@Midnight-Dj..... What?

I still want to have some form of faith in this rotten pile of humanity that only cares for itself.

Are you not human? You can't blame people because they didn't want to save live's of 10,000 stranger's. We don't know who they are, what they did, etc. Everyone is meant to die one day or the other. It was those people's day.

@Red Galaxy.....
Brb gonna vomit <.<

Search

MORAL BUTTON DEBATE