Spiral Knights - [SOLVED]Vanaduke and blitz, getting boring and painful

[SOLVED]Vanaduke and blitz, getting boring and painful

18 replies [Last post]

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 07:08

Ionxx

Hi everybody!

My problem is this. I have shadowsun set (with perk: dmg against undead medium) and a blitz needle lv 10, and for killing waves of zombies is good....but is becoming for me boring and painful for two things:

a) every freaking time I shoot a charge, a zombie jump and hit me (and the 75% of the times give fire) or spray a flamethrower

b) wait for charge, release it, and wait to unstuck takes so much time....and this bored me.

My questions are:

1) How I can make this gun less boring and painful?

2) There are other powerful handgun that I can use against waves of zombies?

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 07:35

Bopp

yes

Fundamentally, autoguns do massive offense, so they need a drawback, which is the terrible defense that you're describing. But zombies should never be touching an advanced player such as you. I can't tell exactly what advice you need, without watching you play. Perhaps you just need to stand outside their jumping range.

I can't tell you how to make autoguns interesting again, but lots of guns kill zombies. My two favorite options would be:

* Nova/Storm Driver. If you don't know how to use the ricochets, then alchemers are weak. But if you do know how to use the ricochets, then alchemers are very strong. You can use either regular or charge attacks.

* Callahan/Iron Slug: The regular attacks are nothing special, but the charge attacks tear through crowds. Maybe that would entertain you.

Another option would be Neutralizer, but I haven't used catalyzers much since the gunner update, and most people say that they are now weak. Of course, there are also plenty of options in swords and bombs.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 07:47

Smalltownguy

lots of choices

1) CTR VH, ASI VH

Unfortunately, asking Punch to put both of these on a blitz may prove expensive. (I don't have it yet either.) Until you're wealthy enough for that, a CTR sprite perk and a Swifty buckler might help. Do you have any trinkets?

2) Guns don't get more powerful than a blitz, especially vs. trojans or Vana, especially when supported by a shadowsun. Still, there are plenty of other choices for the zombies, slimes, and puppies. Do you have an elemental gun in your arsenal?

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 07:46

Holy-Nightmare

What's good

First off you should figure out that Zombies jump a lot.
Secondly, you don't HAVE to use the charge.

1. This gun is more fun when you don't do just one thing with it, as for pain maybe you should keep out of the range of the monsters or predict their movements better.

2. A lot of people use the Polaris to fight Zombies and despite often not being team friendly it gets the job done. You may also want to look at the Storm and Nova Drivers, the charges are strong and it keeps you moving. Also look at the Arcana, it's a good gun to pair with your blitz as it lets you spit out good damage when you don't have the space to use a blitz.

3. The question you didn't ask is: what else can I do?

Swords! Bombs! you don't have to stick to just one type of weapon throughout the whole game. There are many powerful weapons that combo very well together. The Brandish weapons are very commonly used due to the safety of their charge attacks, the Divine avenger is a bit more powerful against zombie hordes with it's charge but requires more skill and prediction it does however come with massive crowd control potential.

The Voltaic Tempest is a great bomb since it slows down enemies making it easier for your to gun them down safely. The Electron Vortex is a great weapon for teamwork and your allies will greatly appreciate you using it well. The Dark Briar Barrage is a good bomb with nice damage and litte interference to teammates.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 08:31

Ionxx

Answers for you

To Bopp:
a) My main goal is wipe out the most of zombies as fast as possible. My playstyle is to kill the most of zombies with a charge attack, so I tend to stay close to enemy with my blitz.
b) I already tryied the drivers, and my glorious luck give me a fucking ricochets that goes on nowhere and not on the target, also I not like it very much.
c) Callahan and Iron slug, it should be interesting, but the dps done is a pain.

To Smalltownguy:
1) I not have trinkets, but I can buy it. And I can also try to rage crafting.
2) elemental guns no. But I have a glacious that I use it when I have a low health to hit enemies at safe distance, which, however is a pain use it cause I take a lot of time to kill group of enemies.

To Holy-Nightmare:
a) Unfortunally those zombies always surprise me when I "think" to know how they moves.
b) I read in this forum that arcana is weak. About Drivers, look at answer to Bopp. About Polaris, I tryied the Supernova and I not like it cause they need a long distance to expand the bullets, too many times I hitted zombies with a stupid normal bullet cause, as you said, jumps a lot.
c) Swords? I take so many ages for heating a gunslinger set. I prefer use guns, however bombs are interesting, I will accept suggestions about it.
d) By c) answer you think "why you carry a glacious?", well many people of my guild suggested me to carry one for vanaduke missions.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 08:59

Bopp

response

a) My main goal is wipe out the most of zombies as fast as possible. My playstyle is to kill the most of zombies with a charge attack, so I tend to stay close to enemy with my blitz.

Right. But then you get munched.

b) I already tryied the drivers, and my glorious luck give me a fucking ricochets that goes on nowhere and not on the target, also I not like it very much.

You're entitled to your own tastes, but it's not really luck. If you're not landing the ricochets, then you need more practice. Someday maybe you'll give them another try.

c) Callahan and Iron slug, it should be interesting, but the dps done is a pain.

I don't understand your comment. If you fire charge attacks into crowds, then the DPS is quite high. You can kill many targets per charge. The only tricky thing is that the targets have to be facing you, so that they get knocked back along the charge trajectory.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 09:00

Holy-Nightmare

@ Ionxx

a) Sadly it can be hard to keep watch over the whole zombie horde at one time, so yeah they can surprise you pretty good if you can't keep tabs on them all.

b) Guns in general are weak, and there are trade-off for each type. Blitz needles trade Mobility and accuracy for massive power. Alchemers trade clip size and base damage for a powerful charge with a high skill ceiling. Iron Slug trades clip size, type damage, and any angle useability charge for massive damage and knockback. Pulsars trade close range damage and knockback for long range damage and knockback.

c) You don't have to fully heat gear for it to be viable, you can use the 4 star versions at level 10 and still get the same power as a 5 star at level 7.
If you want a gun and bomb Combo I would say use the Electron Vortex and pair it with the Iron Slug Charge (blitz works ok too just no shock/stun status combo)

d) Glacius is the most defensive of all the Brandishes. It's damage is the lowest of them all but the status it deals can hold enemies down for allies to prepare their own charges.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 09:57

Smalltownguy

I read in this forum that

I read in this forum that arcana is weak. About Drivers, look at answer to Bopp.
1) I don't recall anyone saying an arcana was weak, not when facing zombies or puppies. Boring maybe. Spammy, even. But not weak.

2) True, Nova/Storm's ricochets are often less reliable than Bopp makes them sound. Rather than trying glancing blows on the right side hoping for internal ricochets (a trick that takes much practice), you might try glancing blows on the left side, hoping to aim the ricochets into neighboring zombies.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 10:56

Ionxx

thank you all for the tips

thank you everyone, really!

1) The idea of iron slug and electron vortex capture my attention! It can works with callahan too?

2)The topic where it seems talk badly about arcana

3) You guys not talked about the Neutralizer. Can it be a powerful gun to kill groups of zombies?

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 11:57

Vohtarak-Forum

I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

For a neutralizer the quick and high damage charge is useful on its own, and for fun you can stack a ton of tags on one enemy and detonate them, it doesn't deal insane damage but it works to break up crowds

And since zombies are slow its really easy to land hits on them

P.s. common sense says the Callahan is the same as an iron slug in mechanics

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 13:03

#10

Ionxx

than you again + last question

I'll start to make the electron when I could.

I choose the electron - iron combo!!

Last question:

Can you suggest me perks and trinkets for the combo I write above, please?

P.S.: my pet perks of handgun is low, the other perks like dmg vs monster is medium.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 14:25

#11

Holy-Nightmare

....

For trinkets most players use Penta heart pendants for extra HP. Since you plan on running Vana in Shadowsun set I might suggest getting some Fire resist trinkets. If you plan on trying to bomb in Shadowsun you may want to get some bomb focus modules or just practice with bombing vortex/iron combos. Vortex Bombs make you walk super slow so try to place a bomb near the enemy so that they will walk into it, or before they spawn.

For Perks I would suggest Gun CTR over bomb CTR if you plan on Vortex/iron comboing. Good footwork can bypass the bomb's CTR but you NEED to get that gun charge in before the bomb blows.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 16:13

#12

Ionxx

thank you again so much!

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 17:24

#13

Vohtarak-Forum

I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

Also a good bonus to the catalyzer is they have a terrible reputation from preGU they haven't lived down yet, so the recipes on the AH are usually really cheap if you get sick of basil running

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 18:21

#14

Bopp

trinkets

For trinkets most players use Penta heart pendants for extra HP.

This may be true in PvP, where a little extra health helps you withstand an extra sword swing, but is it really true in PvE? With all of these players using glass cannon armor, I would expect them to use offensive trinkets too.

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 18:51

#15

Holy-Nightmare

@ Bopp

Currently he is using the Shadowsun set which is middling in defense and offense, as such he could benefit well from either kind of trinket type be it defensive or offensive

Tue, 06/09/2015 - 22:45

#16

Fehzor

I know it says "SOLVED" at the top, but I couldn't comment earlier due to Steam acting up and wanted to share the trick I use for FSC to make blitz needle safer-

Step One: Drop Shivermist Buster where I plan to stand

Step Two: Charge Blitz Needle and destroy something

Shivermist Buster does an excellent job of stopping zombies while you blitz down something.. instead of being able to jump, they just freeze and you get away with it. You might say that it's a waste of time but it benefits everyone (providing they're also blitzing) and saves you time in trying to find an opening. More importantly, the combo can be used intelligently when you're going to be taking damage and not so much when you're going to be fine without it.

Really, maxing out shiver and blitz will solve just about every situation in FSC, including the ones that involve construct and slimes, and can really up your game on the Vanaduke fight when solo- spam shiver until he and his minions are stuck, blitz safely. It also makes it much more efficient when killing trojans- charging shiver can be used to trap them much faster and more reliably than baiting them, and can be used in the final arena to trap trojans (as well as secure the area) as they charge over traps towards you.

Fri, 06/12/2015 - 13:52

#17

Poopsie

...

I could make it way more boring but less painful to you! this -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmBEp0LSEvc
Some old commentary... http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Blitz_Needle_at_Clockworks#Dealing_with_Mo...

Mon, 07/06/2015 - 19:48

#18

Moizoos-Jilliumz

If you want to use charge

If you want to use charge attacks use a glacius and if they don't die charge a blitz attack. But this is why I hate autoguns people think there invincible but that's the Sparks talking.

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[SOLVED]Vanaduke and blitz, getting boring and painful