So what's the deal with Damage Calculation?
So recently I've managed to get a Silversix and Nightblade (which I'm pretty jazzed about), with the intent of using the Silversix to demolish Undead and Fiends and the Nightblade to cut up Gremlins and Slimes. My reasoning comes from the in-game information and wiki (so Undead are weak against Elemental, Fiends vs Pierce, etc).
I kind of figured the damage calculation for my Silversix would go something like this:
Effective attack damage is multiplied by arbitrary multiplier "x"
[RED numbers]
Neutral attack damage is multiplied by "1"
[BLUE numbers]
Ineffective attack damage is multiplied by "1/x"
[GREY numbers]
Silversix deals Elemental and Pierce damage, so versus Gun Puppies (Constructs, resist Pierce and are weak to Elemental)
, I would have expected the multipliers to cancel out like this:
x * 1/x = 1
So theoretically the Silversix would deal neutral damage to Constructs.
nope.avi
The Silversix dealt ineffective damage to constructs. So either the "ineffective" multiplier is much bigger, maybe there's hidden mechanics and calculations behind it, or maybe something is a little screwy (please let it be the latter).
Similarly, when fighting some Devilites (Fiends, resist Shadow and are weak to Pierce), instead of being effective:
1 * x = x
It dealt neutral damage to them. So basically, a weapon with two attacking types (in this case Elemental and Pierce) will only ever do the least possible amount of damage, effectively neutering their potential power. I don't know if this a balancing thing or not, but I'm hoping somebody can explain it to me.
In a related issue, I was using my Nightblade (deals Normal and Shadow) on some Ironclaws (Gremlins, resist Elemental and are weak to Shadow), so even without having to do any calculating I figured I would be dealing effective damage. Nope again. The gremlins would only take Neutral damage. However, Slimes, who are also weak to Shadow, would take effective damage like they should.
Sorry for the long wall of text and whine but I was wondering someone with a little more insight into game mechanics and damage calculation could explain why things are the way they are...
TL;DR I was killed by a Sloom and am looking for knights to help me take revenge.
Bonus is like * 2 dmg.
Resist is like * 0.25 dmg.
And there is something else about how damage is calculated that we don't know because we are too lazy to do proper testing.
As for menders: Despite the numbers showing white, you are dealing bonus damage if my memory doesn't fail me.
But I think there is some balancing thing there, so it's not impossible to kill a mender if you have the wrong weapons.
So for the sake of easy math lets say a peacemaker does 200 damage total, 100 from piercing and 100 from elemental. The numbers would scale with depth but the ratio is always pretty much the same.
Against a weak neutral enemy (fiends/undead) the bonus half of the damage goes up to 120 the neutral half stays 100, 220 damage
Against a sub neutral enemy (constructs/beasts) the bonus half goes up to 120, the resisted half goes down to 25, 145 damage
Against a resistant enemy (slime/gremlin) the neutral half stays 100, the resisted half goes down to 25, 125 damage
Compared to a pure damage weapon, we'll say the antigua and just ignore the star difference for the sake of avoiding comparisons to weapons with wildly different speeds and clips and just say it does 200 damage base too but it's all piercing.
Against a weak enemy (fiends/beasts) the damage goes up to 240
Against a neutral enemy (gremlin/undead) the damage stays 200
Against a resistant enemy (constructs/slime) the damage goes down to 50
So comparable bonus damage, worse neutral damage, and better resisted damage. Though why you'd want a gun that's better at being resisted and worse at being neutral I have no idea.
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what you're telling me is that its better
pure elemental that deals 100 dmg than normal/elemental taht deals 200 dmg? => read: teh nightblade sucks?
nightblade is normal/shadow (lets say its 100 and 100 = 200dmg)
so against a jelly that would be 100 from the normal and 150 for the shadow = 250
but a shadow ONLY weapon (if there were such a sword) (lets say 200 dmg from shadow)
against a jelly that would be 300 from shadow = 300?
is that it?
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Thread necro, but eh, whatever.
You're completely in the wrong.
If you have a pure type weapon, then you get a higher bonus, but also a larger penalty.
On neutral mobs, you'd deal as much damage as the split weapon.
The split weapon, however, deals a slightly lower bonus in damage, but has a smaller penalty.
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Yeah. I got white (not yellow) colored numbers when hit Kats with Avenger in t1, although they were dying in 1 hit. So Avenger is neutral against Kats although I don't know why.
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I think T1 is an exception to most damage rules, a lot of weird things happen there. Probably not the best place for testing.
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Don't trust the number colours, they're really glitchy. Go by the actual damage numbers instead.
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yeah t1 is weird. Also I noticed when heating my 4* alchamer that the bonus % increased as it heated.
By this i mean (all numbers alter for easy math) if the alchamer did 20 damage at lvl 1, it dealt 25 to constructs (25% bonus). but at lvl 10 its doing like 30 damage and 45 damage against constructs (50% damage bonus).
I noticed this particularly becasue when i first upgraded it it was doing more damage than the previous version against neutral targets, but less damage than the previous against "weak" targets.
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The damage number colors are incredibly glitchy. Every time I use my Glacius 5* charge attack against a lumber (supereffective), it deals around 257 damage in T2, but the numbers are still blue/white instead of brown supereffective numbers.
The damage added to supereffective attacks is much lower than that deducted from ineffective ones.
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The Silversix actually does do neutral to constructs, it only shows the grey numbers because the differnce is to little to show blue numbers.
Well, if you take some pure-damage weapons out for a spin, you'll quickly realise that you get a much bigger penalty for enemy resistance than you get a bonus for enemy weakness. Hitting enemies weak against your attack usually nets you about a 50% increase in damage, in my experience. Hitting enemies that resist your damage types results in doing about 1/4th of your normal damage, or about an 75% penalty.
The Antigua lines are a wierd case too. Most split-damage weapons are Normal/Special. The Silversix and Blackhawk are Special/Special. (Piercing/Elemental and Piercing/Shadow respectively, for the record.) This generally means that half the stuff you're shooting at that's weak to either damage type, is probably resistant to the other one. And because the resistance is so much stronger than the weakness, you generally lose more damage than you gain.
The other issue is what kinds of numbers are actually displayed, and in that respect I can't really help you. There are any number of factors that could result in an attack that deals multiple damage types displaying neutral, effective or ineffective numbers, and quite a few of them are "under the hood", so to speak.