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Specialised blasters aren't OP, you're just grumpy because you can't p2w them away

4 replies [Last post]
Tue, 06/23/2015 - 18:06
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Before I start sharing any opinions, let's look at some facts:

a. All blaster line weapons share the same stats in every way except damage type. The damage values are the same. This means that a Chaos set user with no UVs will take an equal amount of damage from Valiance and Arcana provided the two guns share heat level and damage bonus. This user will however take a bit more damage from a Riftlocker or Phantomos.

b. A 5* blaster with no damage bonus has a damage value of 252. One with Max damage bonus has a damage value of 314. A Knight in Lockdown has a minimum defence value of 100 in every damage type. A Chaos set, along with many other sets*, has the same amount of normal and elemental defence. The sum of the set is 125 defence in both types. A Skolver set has 142 normal defence and 125 piercing defence.

* You can tell by looking at the defence bars. If they're as long as on the Chaos set it means they're the same values as the Chaos set.

Let's start doing some maths. What you need to know first is how defence works, in simplified terms. Quite simply put, one point of defence removes one point of damage, making for a 1:1 defence to damage removal ratio. This is of course not the entirely formula because after all, a Proto Sword has a base damage probably less than 30 yet you can still do some damage against an Ancient Plate user with one. What actually happens is that once your defence is more half of the damage you're taking, the formula used to calculate the end damage is changed to a more complex one which never allows the end damage to hit 0.

Basically this means that once you start adding defence higher than half of the damage, it gets less and less useful. However, for a small amount of defence beyond the so called threshold, defence is actually worth more than one unit of damage removal per unit of defence. This is a very crucial part to discussing the balance of the Blasters, because half of their damage values is very close to a lot of people's defence.

Let's take an example. Compare a Skolver set to a no damage bonus Valiance, as was common some years ago. You got about 250 damage vs about 150 defence. Half of the damage of Valiance wasn't even close to the threshold, and thus Valiance was pretty well resisted by everyone.

Enter the BKCs, and suddenly there's a lot of people with high damage on their Valiances. You see, Valiance now had the potential to be a significantly stronger gun. With a BKC and Shadowsun Slicker you had a base damage of 303 and no one had enough defence to reach the threshold, with the exception of two groups. Ancient Plate users and people with UVs.

A max UV is worth 25.6 units of defence. Pushing past the threshold on a Skolver set was actually quite easy and only required a very small amount of UVs. A single high was enough to push past the threshold and Valiance damage became a lot more trivial. This is what the meta looked like for I believe about two years. Valiance was one of the most popular guns but it was significantly more effective against people without UVs than those with it.

When the gunner update arrived, a lot of people got new Blasters, obviously. A lot of people also looked down on these as overpowered, criticising how they're able to kill a striker off in just 5-6 shots. Let's make some comparisons to see the actual changes, though.

To a Chaos user, there's no difference between being hit by Vali or Arcana.
To a Skolver user, there's about half a pip's difference between Vali and Riftlocker. Arcana and Vali have a difference of about 1 pip.
To a normal damage UV'd Skolver, the difference is several pips more, as explained why earlier in this post.

So to summarise, the gunner update's new blasters only significantly affected people with good UVs - those without them hardly notice it. If you're complaining about OP blasters then it's probably because your defences have been put closer to people who don't spend as much resources on LD gear and you've lost a bit of your gear advantage.

Tue, 06/23/2015 - 19:41
#1
Finale-Flare's picture
Finale-Flare
Valiances aren't OP, just

Agreed, Valiances aren't OP, just very easy to use. Moderate damage, High Range, Moderately High Bullet Speed, Moderate hitbox, No penalty for missing. They are so easy to get that people shouldn't really be complaining when things like shock, freeze, and AT exist.

I like the analysis though, nice to see someone else who knows of damage bonuses and defenses this well. These guns are a nice counter to polaris spammers too. It is an easy to use gun, but not OP.

Tue, 06/23/2015 - 22:07
#2
Theirillusion's picture
Theirillusion

Valiance was the most common gun because of its great utility with the only flaw being that everyone and their moms wore normal defense. If you wanted to deal more damage you would need to get rid of all the other wanted features in a gun. Now that's no longer the case. You lose nothing by going specialised damage because higher normal defense is alot more common in terms of base stats on used gear and UVs. If the result is as you say "only half a pip", the result could very easily end in 1 extra hit needed.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 01:29
#3
Krakob's picture
Krakob
@Theirillusion

A majority of players weren't beyond the defence threshold, though. Vali still hit them hard. If you invested in extra normal defence, you became significantly more resilient to it - I'd assume about 1½ pips less taken per shot if you had a class set with roughly two normal highs, which is a significant portion of Vali's damage.

People without UVs only feel a small difference - assuming the above guess is correct you'd take 2½ pips damage more from an Arcana or Phantomos whereas with no UVs it's between 0 and 1 pip. Yes, it can be significant in some cases, but it's still very small. Arguing that it's overpowered because of that is like arguing that FF is OP not because Furious Flamberge is less powerful while largely the same.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:53
#4
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
.....

That was probably the point of the update to bring some balance back to LD. Prior to the update there were only 2 sets and one 1/2 set that were devastated by the Valiance (Divine, Dragon, and Radiant Silvermail), none of these sets offered anything to LD players besides some nice Haze bomb immunity combos and were not considered "Meta".

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