The words hot, mess and jelly used in the same sentence got me all excited.

Sounds like an interesting challenge, but I do agree they shouldn't be able to attack through party button gates if that's what they are doing.

I look forward to seeing this though, I've been starting to feel complacent lately. Haven't personally found the new attack to be that difficult to avoid yet, but there's alot more jellies in the palace than elsewhere and I haven't yet tried it yet to see one way or another.

I did a Jelly King run (Including him) on the day of the update and didn't think anything was wrong. I enjoyed myself in fact.

Jelly Cubes aren't the only things that can get you even if you're behind a gate, wall, etc: Higher tier Wolvers have always been able to as well since they can burrow underground and pop up anywhere they choose, it took me by surprise when I had three of them go under the gate since I thought I would be safe.

Speaking of being able to go through gates.... I need to report some serious issues with Firestorm Citadel. The protection barriers are pretty broken, but they're more obvious in those levels.

The added challenge is great, and those levels needed an increase in difficulty anyway.

Did the boss, defeated the boss, didn't rly seem too different however.

Performance-wise, the only change I'd hope for is removal of the screen-shaking. It's more annoying and disruptive than not when there are multiple jellies.

A somewhat more obvious warning for the ground spikes would be nice too. :>

I can just bet that half the time I stop to swing my gran faust once, a jelly spike will fly up my butt. The spike range is insane and the warning is hard to see in the grass (this is unnecessary though, since you can guarantee they will do the spike attack if you are within range even if they are DEAD). For melee, I have to use my vile striker in order to get a couple hits in to get the shield up. I like challenges and requiring a change to playstyle, but even this pushes it.

I used to use some shield bumping to keep lichen colonies separate, but I don't care anymore. After fighting 4 tier 2 jellies at the same time, a giant lichen colony is cake. I'd rather fight 3 giant lichen colonies than 3 jellies. Is this your intention, OOO?

A few things to think about:
- a T2 jelly can shoot spikes under walls (e.g. in the lower right room of the Royal Carpet Runaround. Because of their range, this can hit you even if you are near the player button in the center, before you ever broke their wall or opened the gate.)
- a T2 jelly has little warning before its spike attack, and it's almost invisible on some surfaces. The idea is that you have to keep moving, and if you are still even for one slow sword melee or movement stopping gun, you will get hit. Is this bad? Just gotta use fast weapons I guess. The best thing to do is to tank the jelly with a forward moving weapon, like a striker, so you can bet no spikes hit you where you stand.
- Even if a T2 jelly dies, the spike WILL still fire up afterward. A Giant Lichen Colony can't do this; no enemy can do direct damage to you after they've died.

Bugs me a little when tier 3 is easier than tier 2. OOO overcompensated a little with this one.

I didn't say I got hit that much, actually. I don't get hit that much. But when I do get hit, it doesn't seem fair. I will take the blame when I fight gremlins and get hit by a flying hammer. It's my fault if I get hit by one of the many bullets in a bullet hell section; it's still fair, even if the angle is a little less than optimal for dodging, I get it done. My fault if a giant lichen hits me with a flying spike or ground spike.

Not my fault if I managed to kill a jelly and his spike still comes up. Not my fault if I haven't even gotten to the place on the other side of the wall in jigsaw valley I can't even see yet, but they were a jelly hiding there and he was sending spikes up past the wall. Oh now I know here's there. I guess I'll fight him in 5 minutes when I get around to that part of the map.

I don't recall if a giant lichen can shoot spikes up across a gap, but a jelly can.

I think the new JK gate's GREAT!! So much more of a challenge...I used to just slash around with my Fov and Gran while half sleeping/eating but now i actually have to pay attention! XD so they send out spikes psscch...get some piercing armour if u're that worried. In the words of Mr T..."Quit yo' jibber jabber! Get some NUTS!" OOO u did a good job with the jellies =D

You're right, jellies do use their spike attack before they die, but if they die while it's preparing to come up, it still shoots up. This is not the same for a Giant Lichen Colony. If you manage to kill them while they are powering up, the spikes will never pop out of the ground after they explode into loot. Again, this DOES happen with jellies. I realize they started the attack before they died, but more than once there was only one jelly left and i knew he was super low on health, so I hit him with my sword, he'd explode into loot, and his spike would fly up at me.

I said "direct damage" although I meant instant damage. I was also not including things like shock greavers, who can leave a ring of shock after they die and potentially shock you for some damage. Regardless, bombs are easy enough to walk away from. A spike that shouldn't have come up is not.

Also, I was curious about if they always try to tackle you when you're close, and I concluded that they often do, but not always. A few times I ran up to a jelly's face to attack him and although I shielded in time, a spike hit me mere pixels away from the one remaining jelly. I am not complaining about this, just saying it happened, since you said it does not happen. Note the jelly was up against a wall, and I was right next to him egging him on just to shield him, and he tackled a few times, then he sent a spike at me. Result of lag as you say? I doubt it.

I paid a lot of attention to this stuff because I realize that when there are 4 jellies on screen, spikes can come from all 4 jellies and it's hard to draw conclusions from that, so I only made notes when there was only one jelly left, or I had separated them so far the other jellies didn't see me nor chase me.

> I didn't say I got hit that much, actually. I don't get hit that much. But when I do get hit, it doesn't seem fair.

EXACTLY. It isn't that you got hit. I don't mind them having split damage or ranged attack at all but the way they deal their "mid ranged" attack is just unfair. To compare it with something, I don't mind retrode attack either but at least when I DO get hit by a retrode it was usually my fault. When I get hit with spikes it's more of a WTF? How am I supposed to deal with that moment?

Range - For an enemy the quarter the size of a lichen colony, it somehow has double the range?

Unpredictability - Outside of a couple of mobs that spawn in JK this isn't an issue but this is a serious problem. The spikes are unpredictable. Sure, most of the time they'll come out in a straight line at you but sometimes they can come out perpendicular. This really makes no sense in the context of the enemy and is something that should be rebalanced. Again it isn't a matter of you getting hit sometimes. When you DO get hit it is complete bull. On top of that you can't really tell if they are going to do their spike attack or tackle attack. The animations are similar and the charge is too fast to tell the difference. If you're fighting a group of cubes then you need to be paying attention to the ground and not the enemies. This is really, really poor design.

Spikes Through Walls - NO, just NO. Spike pit + wall spikes + small area to navigate in? That is awful design.

Decals not clear, especially when bombing - Tell me where the spikes are going to come up in this screenshot. Spoiler: you can't and neither can I.

Fast Charge, No Cancel - The charge up on their spike attack is way too fast and on top of that you cannot cancel it. I'm sorry but if I can get hit during a BOMB DROP animation and somehow my bomb doesn't go off then they shouldn't get to throw their spikes if they get hit while charging. That is just UNFAIR. And yes the spikes after death is a phenomenon that I can confirm. This should not happen. Bug report it because it is obviously a bug.

Suggested changes:
Make charge for spike longer and cancelable. Reduce range on spike attack by 1/3 to 1/2 of current range to match jelly cube size. Adjust T3 spike attack to be more predictable. Adjust decal of pre-spike attack to be more visable. Remove ability for jelly cubes to spike across chasms or through walls.

Better solution would be the JK to drop more crowns so that people would actually try to kill him instead of quitting at the end of Red Carpet Turnaround

You keep posting in threads about these "problems" you seem to know about, and yet you don't say what they are. You aren't really helping the problems get fixed by keeping them to yourself.

I don't really find the Royal Jelly Palace to be any harder now. While the slimes gained a new attack, their AI doesn't really know what to do with it- they are incapable of leading it, and sometimes they decide they want to use it but nobody's in range.. or they just spam it and stay back.

Personally, I found one of the biggest killers of the Jelly Palace was being blobby-blocked and shoved into spikes or other incoming attacks, with so many jellies swarming me that sword sweeps won't get me out of the center of them. This happens *LESS* now, since many of the jellies are now sitting back and using their slow, slow spike.

The tactics used to handle the whole place are different now, but... Just because everyone finally got used to the old tactics doesn't mean the new ones are actually harder to do.

Attacking through barriers that are supposed to separate sections is pretty crap though. Screw that, and T3 Alphas and Rocket turrets.

I saw your recent posts in these threads:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/11115
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/11108

And then your post in this thread. You didn't even say anything of worth. "Yup, there are problems." is essentially what you posted. You aren't offering your own solutions. Even your second post about "netcode" was a garbled mess in 11108. You don't need to confirm there are problems, we already know. If you have some soft of helpful insight please let us know, otherwise refrain from such mindless posts.

@Dirt

On the first link, im just agreeing with OP. On the second link im saying that there is a lot of room for improvement in net code, both for PvP and PvE. In other thread I even gave you a lecture about netcode, introducing you to rollback techniques (like GGPO).

Sadly, I'm not a netcode programmer, so I can't provide it to 000. That's their job.

I'm not even sure if you play the game now or you just log in to troll in the chats, given your complete ignorance about the basic subjects discussed in all of your replies. Also, if you want to continue this out of topic and personal nonsense, please do it via PM. It's not everyone's problem that your ignorant induced blindness doesn't help you to see what's directly in front of you. Neither it is my problem, but you keep barfing all these nonsense to me for some reason.