Spiral Knights - Three new sword lines (to pair with Defense sets)

Three new sword lines (to pair with Defense sets)

14 replies [Last post]

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 08:53

Holy-Nightmare

First off we have to identify what counts as a defensive set

It has to have:
Shield
Helm
Armor
2 status resists
A Normal Bar

This only leaves:
Dread Skelly line
Grey Owlite line
Royal Jelly line

_______________________________________________________________________

Dread Skelly weapon

Skeletal Slasher line

This weapon is alchemized up from the Calibur line and deals pure shadow damage. As this weapon alchemizes up it's color changes to keep up with it's Skelly set.
The blade would appear to be fashioned out of dark metal and bones. http://i.imgur.com/HlrMivT.png
The Charge attack would be identical to the Calibur and the damage values would be as well. When the Charge is released a Howlitzer Howl sound is made.

________________________________________________________________________

Grey Owlite line

Blinding spellsword

This weapon is alchemized up from the Flourish line and deals pure elemental damage. The blade of this weapon glows brightly at 5 star and as it is alchemized up from the flourish the blade glows more and more.
This blade would appear to be made of light, on the 5* star the extensions on the hilt would also glow
The charge would be identical to the Flourish but with a glowing effect on the swings a bit like the Celestial Saber.

https://www.eventlights.at/images/produkte/i13/Eventlights-LED-Degen-134...
Note: the suggestion sword is yellow/divine

_________________________________________________________________________

Royal Jelly line

King's Crusher

This weapon is Alchemized up from the Troika line and deals pure Pierce damage. This weapon appears to be a Jelly that decided to consume and absorb a sword, as such it is shaped like one and thanks to Spiral Tech this weapon is easier to wield.

At the 3 star level this blade has holes and eroded areas on it that have been replaced by a slime living in the empty areas. As this weapon is alchemized up the jelly color changed to match the Jelly set armor, the holes and eroded areas greatly expand at 4* to such a point that it seems like the blade is more jelly. Short spikes are coming out of the jelly as well (Spikes are similar to T2 jelly cube. At 5* the whole blade is jelly with large spikes running down the edge (spikes are similar to a T3 jelly cube)

The charge attack is identical to the Sudaruska and deals stun. Unlike the Suda there are Jelly spikes that pop up in the impact zone (these spikes don't do extra damage and are just for effect)

http://i.imgur.com/JyWtqzU.jpg

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 08:56

Red-Galaxy

How about guns and bombs as well? or maybe we can have a skelly bomb, a jelly sword, and an owlite gun.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 09:26

Falminar

I agree.

But what do you mean "alchemized from the _______ line"? Shouldn't it be that theme by 2 star, not at 3 star? So, that would mean that a full Skelly set would be Skelly Suit, Skelly Mask, Skelly Shield, and Calibur? Or am I just not understanding this correctly?

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 10:12

Fangel

Hmm.

I see where you're going with these, however I will always disagree with anything that tags a different damage type on a flourish.

Let's take a look at what we have:
Elemental flourish - against it personally. Not going to throw a fit if it gets added but I see no application for a flourish of any other type than piercing (spamming the first hit is not a good use of any weapon, and that's the only effective part of an elemental or shadow flourish)
Shadow Calibur - We already have a combo that mimics the calibur in the nightblade line. Going to say no to this one.
Piercing Troika - It's viable I suppose. I would rather have a joust or a spear to be our piercing heavy weapon as a troika will feel a lot of pain coming from fiends, but it can still happen.

Next, let's take a look at what we already have:
Divine Avenger already fills in the Grey Owlite weapon. That role is already filled, no need to make another elemental sword currently - we have plenty of those.
Shadow swords - We do need another attack style for shadow swords, are right now we're trapped between brandish or sealed sword. We've had a talk about a shadow cutter, so maybe this could be our line.
Piercing swords - Similar to shadow swords, we need more attack styles for piercing swords because we've got a single one. Having a slime-themed blade would allow things to happen. Perhaps this sword could be the calibur reskin? If we go with the whole "Slime growing on a sword", a calibur would be an okay path, seeing as the weapon is still fast enough to attack both fiends and beasts, and its charge attack can throw back a swarm.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 10:22

Holy-Nightmare

@Vana-D

It's a similar deal to how the Blaster type variants are crafted up all from just the 2 star blaster, it's more or less a way to make them more friendly to those who invest in UVs for these items.

For example this update would make a VS construct UV actually viable for a Flourish since you can now take it to a path that functions best for it.

________________________

@ Fangel

The Elemental flourish would be a devastatingly powerful weapon able to fight Kats in Candlestick Keeps without having to worry about Grimalkins as much since you stay more mobile.

The Shadow Calibur is built for Wrecking Shielded menders and Polyps while providing a good shadow weapon to spread out jelly and gremlin hordes.

The Pierce Troika is more built for Gorgos and Chromas with it's long reach and powerful charge

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 10:34

Fangel

Well, there's other reasons

Elemental flourish is just bad against everything else. Kats are easily destroyed by a brandish charge (as is most everything), and are devastated by a rocket hammer, which can now be acquired through enough farming the game.
We already have a solution for kats. We don't need to have an elemental flourish. You can use a regular flourish on a kat if you need to cover distance, they don't resist it.

Both of what you said can already be achieved by a regular calibur or an acheron for the shadow weapon. We need to look beyond just the charge attack for a weapon - weigh both the standard hits and the charge attack. Similarly, adding an elemental calibur would be redundant.

Pierce troika, again, should be designed as a whole. A piercing sealed sword would be more viable due to the faster swings, but that is entirely OP and should never happen. If you want to fight gorgoes and chromalisks with a troika, you can do so with a regular troika.

Bottom line is that we have gaps to fill for weapons. Three categories we need to look at are: fast swings, heavy hits, or a balance between them. For elemental weapons we already have several balance weapons, a couple heavy hitters, and a bit of a hybrid between heavy and fast swings in the hammer. For shadow weapons, we have no fast weapon, and in piercing we have only fast weapons. The only gap you've filled is the piercing troika, and that's a bit too slow for piercing weapons.

Guess what I'm saying is that, game design-wise, these really have no place outside of a lockdown dreamer. We have things we need for swords, but most of these are not what we need.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 10:58

Falminar

Grey Owlite Wand

Reskinned it to be more divine themed... And sort of failed.

http://i.imgur.com/nsHaraE.jpg?1

I'll work on it more later.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:33

Rhons

Agreeing with Fangel

The Elemental Flourish would feel like a Lightsaber from Star Wars, and that I already do not want since it would be all the rage now (obvious reference to Star Wars, no doubt). Plus, Mecha Knights would be REALLY easy with its charge attack.

I do not see the need for a Shadow Calibur. If you are looking for theme, would not the Cold Iron Vanquisher fit it more? Hey, look, it even has Damage Bonus against Undead, wow!

Finally, everyone agrees on the need for another Piercing Sword. Your idea was an "eh" in terms of response from me.I actually have a few links to images for alternatives to a Lance/Spear, if you are aiming to be outside of the typical thinking box:

Moderate Speed (Calibur):

http://fate.wikia.com/wiki/File:Crude_Morningstar.png
http://fate.wikia.com/wiki/File:Sickle.png
http://fate.wikia.com/wiki/File:Greatsword.png

Slow Speed (Troika):

http://fate.wikia.com/wiki/File:Photo0191.jpg (apparently the Wikia needs work)

Edit: Yeah, I know they do not match the "theme" of Jelly Armor. Apparently, we already have Slime Node Swords.

_____

This is not advertising. I played this game when I was young, and the weapons looked awesome.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 10:54

Holy-Nightmare

@ Above

Take a look at it this way, this would provide more fully themed sets (right now all we have is Cobalt) and provides coverage for 3 sword lines that all have just one damage type for their entire line.

The Nerf for Brandishes is coming, it may take some time but saying we don't need more variety because we have 2 weapons that kill everything is narrow-minded. I would be all for weapon lines having multiple choices as well as some balance. Look at the blasters, once your average normal damage sidearm for any set. Now.... now they have taken on more specialized roles and EVERYONE loves them (except those guys in LD who invested in Normal max uvs). What about the Winter Grave? or the Permafroster? or the Gilded Griffon? Black Chaingun? Huh? How can you be for damage type variety for guns (and bombs as I have heard complaints about) and not swords?

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 11:13

Rhons

Such a Dirty Trick!

You are trying to appeal to me by using Handguns for your argument! How could you! *cries*

_____

In my honest opinion, I would not really bother with Swords as they are already the most used weapons in the game, with people not considering Handguns or Bombs as a main weapon.

I do appreciate your goal of achieving "sets" for current Armor. I would just rather a "set" not be defined as "Helmet, Armor, Stick" in favor of "Helmet, Armor, Handgun/Bomb" or "Helmet, Armor, Sword + Handgun + Bomb".

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 11:39

#10

Fangel

Because guns need that.

Swords do not need as heavy of a variety since most swords also have split damage on them. You can use an elemental brandish on a deconstruction zone and still clear the level with relative speed. If you tried the same with an arcana, or even switch-shooting elemental alchemers, you'd be on that level for a long time.

Also, let's take a look at swords and guns before the update. For swords, you choose what damage type you want, then go down a line. Elemental damage? Do you like a powerful charge attack or a more dangerous but feel-amazing weapon? Brandish for the former, avenger for the latter. Piercing damage? Not too much of a choice here, but you choose either a status or a charge attack. Shadow damage? Same thought process as elemental damage. Normal damage you can grab a variety of choices depending on if you want a fast or slow attack, and if you want you can pick up a split damage sword and act like it's a normal damage one.

For guns, you had these options: Elemental - alchemers, hope you can master switch shooting even if you do lag. Shadow - alchemers. Same ideas apply, or maybe you want to bring a antigua line and do pitiful chip damage. Piercing? Take a blitz. Normal damage guns are a joke, but if you insist, Valiance.

What the gunner update did was enhance those thought processes. Now we have choices for all damage types, even making normal damage guns viable again. Since we only have one damage type per gun, it's important to have a large variety. When you have split damage types, it's less important to have a large variety since what works really well in one area will still work pretty well in other areas.

With swords such as piercing swords, we need to get another weapon in there because it's the only sword line with a single damage type. I'm all for a lance, spear, or jousting spear for heavy piercing weapons, and making the wild hunting blade piercing damage for a very fast piercing blade.

Besides, weapons do not need to match any armor set. Heck, the grey owlite shield doesn't even match the grey owlite set, as one is toasty and the other is divine. However, because colorschemes are often reused, you will find some weapons do match the armor of other pieces, such as the divine avenger matching the divine set, or a cutter/striker matching a rock jelly or angelic set.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 12:25

#11

Holy-Nightmare

@ Fangel

Pure Damage swords have a place...

In PVP these would provide great coverage options since all these weapons are single damage type. This would allow them to take advantage of lacking defenses for certain armors.

For example:
Jelly Blade would work better as a heavy sword at taking out Chaos and BK since they each have normal resists which cuts down on Troika and Sealed sword damage.

@ Rhons

I do have plans for more weapons for these sets but I thought I would start with the attractive swords, the heavy damage dealers first.

@ Above

Sure these aren't going to compete with the current Brandishes but honestly.... I want variety and I don't want to hear the same old arguments about things being too powerful or not powerful enough or we don't need this (yet everyone jumps on the costume promo boxes gladly). I haven't put out a chart for damage, charge time, or walk speed while charging. All this stuff would be up to OOO to balance along with the other weapons already in the game.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 12:45

#12

Fangel

Yes...

Weapons should be balanced for the PvE game, not added because we have a want in PvP. Personally, I think the riftlocker is a pretty iffy weapon, however it makes sense since Three Rings threw every damage type at blasters.

Lockdown balancing is its own issue. We should not be creating new gear to compete in lockdown. First and foremost is the clockworks, and an elemental flourish is not useful in the clockworks, a piercing troika is hardly useful in the clockworks (might work against beasts somewhat, but they are still dodgy and would outmaneuver a sword like that easily), and a shadow calibur is essentially an acheron.

Pure damage swords do have a place. The warmaster rocket hammer and flourishes have proven this. However, their attack pattern is what makes the weapon so useful, not the fact that it's pure damage. A warmaster rocket hammer works great on large, slow moving and high health targets, which is why it's a great elemental weapon. The flourish works wonderfully on enemies that jump around and dodge attacks, trying to either create distance or flank you, which is why it makes a great piercing weapon. If you swapped the two damage types around you'd see lockdown rejoice, but find no applicable situation in the clockworks.

Sun, 07/12/2015 - 00:16

#13

Moizoos-Jilliumz

@Fangel dude while I was

@Fangel dude while I was reading your second post the science person in attack on Titan said if you insist then I looked at my phone and saw that's where :)

Wed, 07/15/2015 - 14:22

#14

Holy-Nightmare

@ Above

With so many swords in the game right now these offer unique damage/attack pattern combos and while they may not be the most optimal choice they would introduce some more choices into the game. Hopefully in the future many of the swords will get balanced out so that one type of attack pattern does not become the dominant playstyle. For now these blades don't offer much, in the future... well I can only hope....

Search

Three new sword lines (to pair with Defense sets)