Spiral Knights - 3 New bombs (To pair with defensive sets)

3 New bombs (To pair with defensive sets)

13 replies [Last post]

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:59

Holy-Nightmare

First off we have to identify what counts as a defensive set

It has to have:
Shield
Helm
Armor
2 status resists
A Normal Bar

This only leaves:
Dread Skelly line
Grey Owlite line
Royal Jelly line

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Dread Skelly

Icy hatred

Type: Shadow
Bomb style: Based on DBB bomb
Status: Strong Freeze
Appearance: This bomb resembles a solid black Shard bomb. At the 4 star level it gains strong freeze status and a frosty aura. Despite the appearance of the Shard bomb it's explosion style is that of a DBB.
Power and use: Despite being significantly weaker than a DBB the lack of knockback and strong freeze make it a strong and viable bomb against slimes, gremlins, and dodgy enemies.

Edit: Changed Poison to Freeze

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Grey Owlite

Arcane Blast

Type: Elemental
Bomb Style: Vortex bomb
Status: Moderate stun
Appearance: A heavy themed vortex bomb with a Divine yellow colored eye. The orbs on the 4 and 5 star versions glow divine white and at the 5 star level the bomb itself has a sunshine aura. The blast is white and shows the symbol that is the same as the armor equivalent (Arrows for 2*, crescent for 3*, Star for 4*, since the 5* has no symbol an owlite similar to the banners in candlestick keep is the blast symbol).
Power and Use: Due to having a moderate and not strong status (like the other status vortexes) the power is slightly higher but not higher than the status free vortex (Graviton). This bomb is to be used as a synergy/support weapon, since it deals stun it is able to affect all enemies and make them more manageable. It pairs well with Shock weapons to further slow enemy attacks and make bomber survivability much better.

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Royal Jelly

King's Blast

Type: Pierce
Bomb Style: Irontech Blast
Status: None
Appearance: Starts as a slightly shiny blast bomb appearing to be made of jelly, as it alchemizes up it the color changes to match the set and near the end the bomb gains some spikes on it.
Power and Use: This bomb deals more damage than the Irontech per blast (since it has no status) and is built as a way to counter Gorgos and deal high damage and knockback to beasts (all kinds). With no status this bomb is unapologetically a weapon built to hold points and deal massive crowd damage (compound clearer).

Tue, 07/14/2015 - 04:14

Jenovasforumchar

comments

Venomous hatred:
Sounds like a real gremlin killer. If it existed, I would instantly use it - might be a bit too powerful, but if the scale of damage is correct, then it might work.

Arcane Blast:
Don't undead enemies have a higher natural resistance to stun than other enemies? In this case this bomb would be Pointless (someone please verify this, i dont find my link right now)
Aside this: I personally would not pick a vortex stun vs undead, well vs something else maybe.

King's Blast:
This is a BAB by leaving the slow movement and the actually hindering stun away plus decreasing blast time.
NO!

Edit:
I actually disagree with your Definition of defensive sets because there are other sets with the pointin defending vs this or that rather than actually offer offense bonuses. If your Definition includes 2 statusses, then i Name Ancient plate, too. The negative sleep can actually be seen as positive effect (though sleep attacks are not active right now)

Tue, 07/14/2015 - 06:07

Holy-Nightmare

@ J

Venomous hatred is built to be the perfect mix of team support and damage, the poison rate would be less than the Obsidian Crusher just due to the speed at which the VH charges, this is to balance it out.

Arcane blast is built to be for pure support, while the Electron vortex has a more damaging status it hinders knockback which can massively reduce damage. Stun doesn't and even if the undead resist stun it still provides your swordsman partner the time needed to ready another charge attack.

King's Blast is built mainly for fighting wolvers, chromas, and dust bunnies. The BAB still holds a place as the bomb for all families slow monsters.

________________

The defensive sets have the same type defense and status resist as the shields they carry, Ancient Plate doesn't plus it lacks a secondary type resist as it is just normal. Plate sets don't fit since their shield resists don't match their set resists or penalties. Dragon scale has this but lacks a normal resist bar (mentioned in OP)

Tue, 07/14/2015 - 10:26

Jenovasforumchar

thinking twice

beforehand the status chart of monster resitances:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FGf7OsZNetwQIe2MDkc947EWRPEzqBhd...

I did rethink about some aspects of the bombs:

1. Venomous hatred:
At first it sounds like a good bomb. But at secound though I am asking: why should I EVER epquip my Humbig Hazer (aka VV) again if I have THIS in stock. Not only it deals a stronger status effect, knocks down enemies *and* deals actually damage in the whole process. If this bomb would get created, then VV would lose any affection it remains.

Therefore I disagree to give such a spammable bomb a *strong* status. I recommend minor, if any. If you get the idea of the status by their sets, then I suggest morely a shadow-freeze bomb. Here would shiver still shine, since a new (chilling hatred?) explosion could still break the first one, doesnt it? welll probably also not good since the enemies would still be downed, but at least shiver holds the place for 'safely and garantueed keeping monster crowds in place', while the venemous hatred totally outbuffs the 'dealing poision to many monsters' by a 'dealing poision to many monsters AND deal damage'.

2. Vortex bomb:
actually the Stun would be a nice suggestion. I see no gamebreaking harm here since it would act like the already existing vortex bombs which deal statuses. But I personally would like to have a piercing-stun vortex-type bomb, since piercing is the one that doesn't exist yet as a vortex kind.
Aside that: nice idea.

3. BAB version 3.0:
,,King's Blast is built mainly for fighting wolvers, chromas, and dust bunnies. The BAB still holds a place as the bomb for all families slow monsters."

I admit that i overreaded that *is a piercing bomb* aspect. Therefore my apologies, first before.

I personally like to see heavy bombs with special damage for a higher damage.

But yet again: you cant just increase the damage numbers without giving drawbacks. Give it a reason to use it, okay but also keep in mind that there also have to remain reasons to use other weapons.

So if I, as a proudly BAB user, want to see high damage numbers, I use BAB. But this is only possible to the slowness that BAB gives in three things: in charging time, in fuse length and *exspecially* in the slooooowwwww mmmmoooovvveeeemmmeeennnttt ssspppeeeddd.

My suggestion is to give it (slightly higher without stun) or (same wtih stun) pierce damage like BAB with same fuse, ctr and movement speed. But since it is a heavy weapon, it would make more sense with stun, like other heavy weapons.

Tue, 07/14/2015 - 11:32

Fangel

Hmm.

These work a bit better, however I'm with Jenovas here in that we should make the poison be not strong. Have it be a slight chance of moderate poison. You'll be dropping the bomb a lot so even with a slight chance it'll be inflicting poison, and since it's only a slight chance it won't be as reliable as a mist bomb. Other than that the bomb's alright. Decrease in damage helps, and the dark retribution will still stay as a big damage bomb for stationary targets.

Arcane blast is fine. I would even go to recommend the initial explosion could also inflict stun, to further create a safe-ish bomb. Electron vortex keeps enemies in place, this one gets them all in one place, pacifies them, then spreads them out again. Plays a new roll without being an exact replacement for another.

King's Blast is alright. We have a fast pierce bomb (shards), a medium pierce bomb (DBB), and so adding a heavy pierce bomb wouldn't be out of the question. As long as it retains a slow movement speed (not as much as BAB, that's a deathwish with piercing enemies), a large radius, and high damage, and slightly longer charge, it'll remain unique. Unfortunately it's competing with the DBB in terms of what it does (i.e., lock down piercing-weak enemies), and you typically don't want pierce-weak enemies moving out of the bomb radius, but I'm describing why DBB is so good. I'd like to for sure see this in action to see if the damage is enough to out-perform a DBB in the short-term (without CTR boosts first, then with them later), or at least keep a party safer.
Give it a party-friendly blast image and you've got a good bomb.

Tue, 07/14/2015 - 12:37

Holy-Nightmare

@ aboves

Since the Hatred bomb is paired as a Skelly set weapon freeze or poison would be fine on it in my opinion. The status chance on the poison version I mentioned would be quite low actually but if the status is to be more reliable then freeze is an acceptable alternative.

The Arcane blast is simple synergy and works decent on most enemies. With a moderate status instead of a strong one you can also justify more damage on it. I don't think status should be dealt on the initial blast. Well if it did then the other vortex bombs would have to be changed to do the same so that the AB isn't OP.

The King's blast is devastating to beasts. Chroma's have good knockback resistance letting them take good DPS, Bunnies have low HP making for 1-2 hit KOs, Wolvers in T3 teleport into blast bomb radiuses turning their most annoying ability against them. It also should work wonders against Gorgos.

Tue, 07/14/2015 - 14:07

Fangel

Yeah...

The big piercing bomb is good, but piercing + keepaway booms will only be so helpful. Making the damage higher than DBB helps, but if possible we should have it outdamage the DBB for at least the first 3 hits, so that a long-term bomb, DBB will be better with max CTR, but this one with max CTR will also be competitive, and even better if your encounters are short.

Only reason I said arcane blast should inflict status on first hit is so that players can do the sword-to-face method for this vortex bomb. As of right now, it's safer to unleash brandish charges instead of actually hitting them in vortexes. Allowing us to approach and unleash on them while they're inside the bomb would be a nice change.

Shadow bomb is pretty interchangable. I prefer poison, but a freeze one is perfectly do-able with the same restrictions.

Tue, 07/14/2015 - 15:12

Holy-Nightmare

@ Fangel

While the KB would have more damage per blast the knockback would balance this out making it a moderate support and damage bomb with good flinch rate. The DBB is only so good at killing things, this bomb would keep enemies at a distance.

If the AB is going to inflict status on the initial hit then it shouldn't inflict it on the end hit.

I would like to have both Hatred bombs actually, but with such similar blasts, ctr, and damage the only real difference would be the status. I might find a way to include one or the other in a thread about other gear (Specialist, Cobalt, and Guardian).

Tue, 07/14/2015 - 15:38

Fangel

Well yeah

Keep-away is one thing. However, seeing as this is a piercing bomb, it's more oriented towards damage or status, and seeing as it has no status, damage it is! My only concern is the DBB immediately out-damaging this weapon. Short-term, this one should deal more damage, long term, DBB would (because in the long term KB would keep you safer).

AB could inflict a minor status on the first hit, and moderate on the explosion. Again, only reasoning behind this idea was so you could have a few pre-pacified enemies all in one place to wail on, rather than having individual ones all over the place attacking and moving slower.
However, if I had to choose one, the end of the status would likely be more helpful.

Wed, 07/15/2015 - 05:33

Holy-Nightmare

@ Fangel

The suggestion you make for Arcane Blast actually could carry over to the other status vortex bombs, inflicting a weak status on the initial blast would help both out a lot, while the strong status on the end would replace the weak one.

Wed, 07/15/2015 - 10:18

#10

Fangel

Yeah

Seeing as the initial explosion has a very small radius to affect in damage (and thus status), it wouldn't be too overpowered on too much. It wouldn't be too bad on the other status vortexes, (however shock might be a bit awkward), however it's all viable I suppose.

Wed, 07/15/2015 - 12:16

#11

Holy-Nightmare

Observation

This thread was pretty well received probably just due to the fact that bombs have so little coverage and haven't really been developed as much as guns or swords (like my last thread). Since the bomb meta is severely limited people would be open to more choices, swords on the other hand have 3 fast and powerful blades that ARE meta which points towards unbalance and lack of choices (for shadow and pierce at least).

Wed, 07/15/2015 - 14:01

#12

Fangel

Well yeah.

We desperately need more bombs, similar to how we, in the past, desperately needed more guns. Gunner update fixed the guns issue. Swordies were already good off. Now bombers are kind of left in the dust.

Shadow DBB allows for a good shadow damage bomb, and gives one to F2Pers. Bonus status isn't a bad idea.
Stun Vortex doesn't have anything all that bad about it, and would be an interesting combo. Guess I'm not exactly for it or against it, but it also doesn't have a niche that is filled properly yet (electron vortex is a PvP reward, a stun one would be a PvE equivalent, and it would be nice for choices in weapons.
Pierce bomb would be nice as we would, again, have more choices that we don't currently have. As of right now, knockback means no specialized damage, so having a bomb designed with more oomph in a category that is severely lacking is good.

We need more bombs, even if they are similar mechanics to other bombs. However, we have enough swords, so new mechanic swords would be more appreciated than reskinning other ones.
That's sorta my view on it at least.

Wed, 07/15/2015 - 14:17

#13

Holy-Nightmare

@ Fangel

Of course we do need more bombs but for the sake of the term "Set" I want to make each of these with an item set similar to the Cobalt line.
Helm, Armor, Shield, Sword, Gun, Bomb all included.

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3 New bombs (To pair with defensive sets)