I don't know if this has been brought up before, I'd I'd like to see enemies start taking dmg from enviromental hazards suchs as spike floors, briar patchs and shock floors to name a few. If there is a legitimate reason why a particular monster would be immune to that damage i can understand, but when you have a gremilin just hanging out in the back corner of a spike floor, it not only doesn't make sense. it gets annoying as hell.
Enemies vs Enviromental Hazards
Sun, 06/12/2011 - 07:02
Sun, 06/12/2011 - 20:50
#2
I would like to see the
I would like to see the enemies avoid spikes and stuff, so when i shield bump them into spikes it'll feel much better.
Mon, 06/13/2011 - 01:14
#3
Agreed. I get that
Agreed. I get that programming their AI to avoid environmental damage might be annoying, but it's just nonsensical and irritating as hell to watch enemies tromp all over spikes that you can't fight on.
Mon, 06/13/2011 - 04:36
#4
That would be a lot of work
That would be a lot of work and while I like the idea, I don't think it's worth the effort just yet while there's so much other things that need improvement. A lot of 'damage zones' would need to be reassigned and each monster would need to be immune to one or two sorts of environmental damage to make this work (a damage type, an element); also new traps would need to be designed for different combinations of element & status damage & stuff (p.e. a shadow stun trap for rooms where silkwings & lumbers need to both be able to move freely).
There can mostly be only shadow dealing zones in fsc - trojans & zombies need to walk there and trojans being immune against fire doesn't make much sense. Jellies / robots & (immunity against) spikes are fine I guess, so are random elemental levels, but a lot of rooms with healers would really need to be redesigned or rebalanced because those would get into trouble a lot.
Mon, 06/13/2011 - 09:35
#5
@ufna
Wasn't it actually LIKE this way in beta? Or so I've heard. It made things too easy, supposedly.
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing more off-putting than being unable to get to a Mender because they're turtling on a hazard. I definitely think that's a problem - they can heal anyone within the vicinity, while you can't get to them without taking severe damage in return. Both are fine on their own, but this combination is terrifying to deal with - in my opinion, this is too far in the enemies' favor when it comes to balance issues.
A compromise might be to simply have hazards cause knockback (but zero damage) to enemies when they're active. It's a damage-type-agnostic solution that works across the board and doesn't allow hazards to be used as a reliable offensive weapon while still keeping intact the challenge of fighting in a limited space with danger zones.
Mon, 06/13/2011 - 09:37
#6
@Doman
Hazards pushing
@Doman
Hazards pushing enemies away would suck in dangerrooms, you use shieldbash, and they get flung back at you.
Mon, 06/13/2011 - 09:49
#7
Probably not an equivalent
Probably not an equivalent amount of knockback equal to shield bash, of course; just enough to push/displace them outside of the hazard. (You can probably get out of dodge while they're being juggled around, anyhow.)
Mon, 06/13/2011 - 10:04
#8
@Ten_Tacles
To add to that, they could make it a flinching knockback, like when you knock them away with the final strike of a Leviathan Blade. That would solve your issue.
Now, that doesn't have to be added to elemental-grates but they should at least inflict enemies with the element of the hazard. (With exceptions for elemental nativity, e.g. Toxigels can't be poisoned by poison-grates, but everything can be frozen by freeze-grates (the only status element that has no immunities), however this could make rooms with fire-grates and Oilers and shock-grates and Quicksilvers more threatening.) Poison brambles should also poison non-poison enemies when they go through.
Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:31
#9
I agree greatly on this
You know why I hate it?Because Im just whackin down on a enemy,and then I hit them into a spike/thorn hazard,then I take damage.Then while Im gettin out,(this happens to much in Devilish Drudgery)the enemies use a stupid attack while Im leavin the spike/thorns.Why?WHY?!
Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:25
#10
The knockback idea seems to
The knockback idea seems to have the ideal combination of solving the mechanical problem here (enemies turtling on hazards) without introducing a new one (turning tense fights into a Shield-Bash Air Hockey). It is infuriating as it is, partially because of the aforementioned gameplay reasons, and partially because it's inconsistent - enemies take damage from explosions same as we do, hell, they can even be stunned by Lumbers, so why are they so happy to chillax on a grate that definitely has fire coming out of it?
Having enemies be immune to certain hazard types would make a lot of sense - flyers are unlikely to be troubled by spike traps, for instance, and I can happily believe that most Beast class monsters would know how to navigate a briar patch unharmed - but, as mentioned, would involve a hefty amount of redesigning and redeployment. Knockback would definitely be the best quick-fix answer, at least to try.
Agreed, that does get incredibly annoying.