Spiral Knights - Moveable Health Kits in Lockdown

Moveable Health Kits in Lockdown

11 replies [Last post]

Wed, 07/22/2015 - 21:00

Deleted-Knight

Health Kits are team items that respawn in the locker room. A knight can pick up the health kit, much like a key. The health kit can be placed anywhere on the field. They collide with all knights, and can be used strategically as an obstacle.

When friendly team members stand next to the health kit, they regain health (similar to those special campfires in the clockworks). Enemy knights do not get the benefit, but they can attack the health kit. After 3 hits, the health kit breaks and will respawn after a cooldown period. Health kits are not active when carried and their damage counters do not reset. However, knights can choose to destroy their own kit to force a respawn.

Health kits heal at the same rate as the base heart pads, but they do not cure status. They break like stone blocks, so the power of the hit doesn't matter, and guardian shields can't protect them.

It would also be neat to spawn them in certain locations in clockworks. In that case, they wouldn't respawn, but simply disappear after monsters attack them.

Wed, 07/22/2015 - 23:20

Trymal

See: The knights are rebelling!

If you see my page I created, (The knights are rebelling,) What about those guys? Would they get healed? (Also, feel free to comment on The knights are rebelling, it would be greatly appreciated, and please forgive me for advertising.)

Thu, 07/23/2015 - 08:30

Rhons

This Idea is Pretty Sweet!

I see this as a better solution than making a very long return to base or sitting around waiting for a Guardian to take notice (if your team has one in the first place).

However, I think it may need some rebalancing. Hear me out, would you, Deleted-Knight?

Critique:

You bring it up that it works like a base healing pad. If this idea were to be implemented with this, it would be too strong for the opposing team, especially if a game comes down to camping or if the game were T2/T1. You suggest having it have health of its own and being destructible by means of direct physical attacking. Does that mean if it is heavily guarded, it would be virtually permanent? It would be a huge problem if it was on a forward position that allows for easier camping (yes, I brought that up again). What of the Guardian's ability to slowly heal?

For the Clockworks, it would need to be significantly weakened in order to be more balanced to avoid making Health Capsules obsolete. Perhaps have it last a short period of time and heal like the Health Pads in Firestorm Citadel?

Suggestions:

Might we agree to:

- Weaken its strength to the rate of the campfire scenario room?
- Give it a short timer before it automatically despawns (like the Turret Kit in the Clockworks, but shorter)?
- Have a limit on the number of pads able to be on the field (preferably one or two)?
- Allow it to heal any player, regardless of team?
- Be exclusively available to Guardians?
- Having placement restrictions (i.e Cannot be on a capture point and cannot be next to another heal pad)?

_____

Thank you for you time, Deleted-Knight, and your ideas as well.

Thu, 07/23/2015 - 09:21

Falminar

@Trymal

Probably not. They ARE enemies, right? (I mean, the knights you're suggesting)

Thu, 07/23/2015 - 10:37

Fangel

Hmm.

Interesting. Would prove to be a sort of forwards ability.
On a similar note, might we have one for status healing as well? This essentially disables the two knights carrying the item anyways, and if you put them next to each other they're gone in three flourish hits.

I would say have three respawning item pads in the locker room that give a new "wrench" item, that would full repair any friendly one of these things within a 2 block radius of use (consumed like a remedy capsule). If you're able to defend the item, but it gets damaged, you should be able to run back and repair it. 3 hits isn't hard to get off anyways.

Give the player carrying the kit a MSD: low as well. Not that big of a difference, but it can slow you down quite a fair amount.

If we get these kits in the game, it opens up a fair amount of other ideas using similar things, such as a revival totem for either team. Just place it on the point you want to hold down and watch your team rise again! Or maybe a smaller, portable status generator?
But first we'd see these kits in the game. I'd like to see how they fair before giving a full yes or no to the idea though.

Thu, 07/23/2015 - 11:04

Dracora-Speaking

This could make things very interesting.

Thu, 07/23/2015 - 13:54

Trymal

@Vanduke-Destroyer

I guess you are right, Vanaduke Destroyer. It is just that they are knights as well.

Sat, 07/25/2015 - 22:51

Blandaxt

hmm, healthkits

Ideas mentioned and my thoughts on them:

Might we agree to:

- Weaken its strength to the rate of the campfire scenario room?

* Completely agree! And to create an alternate one that heals statuses suggested by fangel.

- Give it a short timer before it automatically despawns (like the Turret Kit in the Clockworks, but shorter)?

* completely disagree, but we can make it so that only one health kit and only one status kit can be placed down in a 2 times the radius of a 5 star bomb. Meaning, if a player already has a health kit/status kit down in this radius, you cannot set one down. You would have to move farther away to find free spot to set it down.

- Have a limit on the number of pads able to be on the field (preferably one or two)?

* My previous suggestion solved this issue, but why not also make it that the rate of health/status kits that are respawn depends on how many players that are currently alive. Meaning the more players you have alive on your team, the fatster these kits respawn. The less players you have alive, the slower the respawn. This system would reflect the teams effort/condition allowing the winning team to have a boost cause of either their strategy or man power.

- Allow it to heal any player, regardless of team?

* Completely agree, but i also think that if the health/status kit is near a capture point, the team that hold that capture point should get healed faster or status removed faster with less waiting. This would make capture points even more important in a battle because players would strategically lay down their health kits on that capture point for extra health regeneration or faster cure of status. Enemy players who do not have the capture point would have the kit heal at normal/remove status at normal cool down time. Neutral capture points give no bonus.

- Be exclusively available to Guardians?

* Completely disagree, but i do agree that the person who carries the kit should have a movement speed decrease low or medium like fangel suggested.

- Having placement restrictions (i.e Cannot be on a capture point and cannot be next to another heal pad)?

* I agree that it should not be next to a heal pad, but rather if a player is on a heal pad, the health kit bonus does not aply. This way it can be next to a heal pad, but still be balanced. Also, the health kit's healing radius should be almost as big as a guardians open shield radius. Just a bit smaller. This way, guardians can still be more useful in aiding the team when it comes to providing defensive coverage by having a larger radius.

_____

Sun, 07/26/2015 - 23:35

Rhons

Ctrl+C and Ctrl+P

I liked how Blandaxt responded to my comment. I felt like no one does. /shrug

_____

Some points to respond to:

Fangel's Status Pad:

The Pad would be lovely to get rid of terrible statuses, but it would also completely revamp how Lockdown would work. Mist Bomber (exception of Freeze) would suddenly find attacks coming back quicker since of the pad's convenience. I feel like we would severely hurt Bombers who focus on capping by restricting those without a full Status Resist.

Exclusiveness:

I want to respond to this one the most: Having Strikers and Recons begin placing health pads would disrupt what I saw as balance. I may be selfish by promoting what I thought is Lockdown, but Strikers were mainly just the offensive meatheads whilst Recons were just tactical stalkers who either capture or ambush. Guardians were supposed to be support. If the other two classes gained a powerful support ability with only MSD to "slow" them down, it just would make Guardians virtually useless. Their support ability gives him something like a MSD Max (use Shield to heal), whilst Strikers can just dash from point to point. Recons are also slow, but being cloaked means they can run around with little opposition, whilst Guardians are moving meatshields.

I await another response. Thank anyone reading this for their time.

Mon, 07/27/2015 - 01:30

Fangel

Err

Well the point of these items are to hold down points with teamwork. If everyone is dead, or if someone on the other team can hit this thing 3 times, then the thing isn't a big problem. If you aren't defending the kits then they're just something a bored striker can run up to and destroy.

If you wanted to, you could make these items not just boosts, but hazards as well. In exchange for every class being able to carry the things, have the kits interact with each class slightly. Friendly guardians can extend the reach of the health kit by keeping it within their shield range, effectively healing themselves and teammates much faster, and recons can completely disable the kit by marking it for death (no warning icon or anything, the kit will simply shut down and cease to be lit up until the recon stops deathmarking it).
Alternatively, recons could reverse the effect the longer they deathmark the item, in such a way that status healers will inflict a random status, and health kits will damage players. Plays into their "sabotage" role. This also brings back a bit more of the "combat triangle" that's barely in the game, as guardians can essentially spread status and damage if a recon is sabotaging their kits.

Mon, 07/27/2015 - 21:28

#10

Deleted-Knight

Sorry, I forgot about this thread.

I was just tossing an idea out there. It would take a miracle for OOO to implement any suggestion made regarding Lockdown. That being said, I think you guys make some good points.

Trymal
Health kits will only heal party members if in clockworks.

Rhons,
You bring up some good points. Here's my response:

1. The heal rate should be pretty high, or it will hardly be better than guardian shield.

2. Timed destruction is tricky because people may not constantly use it, however I agree it should not be permanent if well guarded. Perhaps it should disappear after giving X amount of health. X will scale according to number of players in the party/team.

3. I might not have made it clear, but it was intended for there to be one health kit spawn. So a health kit will only reappear if the existing one disappears.

4. Making the kit heal both teams kind of defeats the point. There would be no incentive to carry one out of the base unless camping, which you already said is a problem.

5. Speaking of camping...The health kit cannot be protected, only guarded. Pulsar spam can easily take one out. People who can overcome campers won't be deterred by a health kit any more than they can by a guardian.

6. Carrying a health kit prevents the use of shields. Strikers suffer the most from this, but they also have the fastest walk speed, which needs to be penalized (which I think Fangel was trying to get at with MSD). I propose the following:
Guardians will not drop the kit when hit. So they can continue carrying it even if a stray hit lands.
Recons has access to the healing effects while carrying the kit. However, nearby allies do not get to heal until health kit is dropped/placed.
Strikers will carry the kit like a normal key/pot, but they intrinsically have faster moving speed.

Fangel,
1. A separate status-healing kit would be cool. The only qualm I have is it encourages more Chaos/BK, valiance variations, etc.
2. See response to Rhons regarding MSD issue.
3. Your other ideas sound interesting, but I think they should be restricted to clockworks.

Tue, 07/28/2015 - 12:26

#11

Fangel

Hmm.

Well I don't really see too much of a use for one of these in the clockworks honestly. I mean, sure, you can use one, but monsters come in swarms and will just destroy the thing. Seeing as they don't "respawn" there it'll be sort of pointless.
However it would be a good idea to replace some health spawners with these, such as the end of D26 in FSC.

Destroyed after X amount of health is a good idea. If the "wrench" consumable tool were to be implemented, it could "recharge" the health kit.
Heck, if the health kit had its own "health", then it could literally just dispense its own health. After it drains itself of health (1HP remaining) it will either need to be repaired, or one hit will destroy it.

On another note, what would you think of making both teams be able to carry each other's health/status kit? Attacking them forces it to respawn in their base, but if you could steal their kit (can't bring it into your base) then you can put it in some obscure or protected position. This also essentially encourages recons to take these kits as if they can heal with them, taking the other team's totem should heal them. This would mean there'd have to be a delay when you're next to it to pick it up however, which means you can't just take the totem and run (your own and your opponent's).

Heck this could be the start of player-devised CTF.

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Moveable Health Kits in Lockdown