Spiral Knights - Idea for Krogmo Overhaul

Idea for Krogmo Overhaul

8 replies [Last post]

Sat, 08/01/2015 - 13:22

Deleted-Knight

This post was originally created in response to A complaint about Krogmo boosters

Reward people "Krogmo Kommendations" based on their activity, not just participation, in PvP. Kommendations are not tokens, but a point system that the player can check when visiting Sullivan or looking at the leader boards. There is a separate counter for Lockdown and for Blast Network. The point system can go negative, but only positive points can be used to purchase goods. Under the Kommendation system, players will no longer gain crowns back by winning.
Instead of selling recipes and mats, Sullivan gives actual products in return for Kommendation points. All items are bound upon acquisition.

Kommendation Earning
Blast Network: +1 per kill (+1 bonus if multi-kill with one bomb)
Lockdown: +1 per capture, +2 per defend, +1 per ally that leaves the game early
Both: +1 for joining a game, +1 per 2 minutes spent in game, -10 for disgracing spirit of coliseum, +5 for winning, -5 for losing.

Rewards
Generic Bombhead = 200 BN points
Random Bombhead (with chance at getting rare one) = 300 BN points
Haze Bomb = 100 BN points
Haze Bomb MKII = 200 BN points (20% off if you trade in 2-star version*)
Electron Charge = 200 BN points
Electron Bomb/Haze Burst = 800 BN points (20% off if you trade in 3-star version*)
Electron Vortex/Stagger Storm = 2000 BN points (20% off if you trade in 4-star version*)

ShockburstGrintovec/Toxic Needle = 500 LD points (20% off if you trade in 2-star version*)
Boltbrand/Jalovec/Blight Needle = 1500 BN points (20% off if you trade in 3-star version*)
Voltedge/Triglav/Plague Needle = 3000 BN points (20% off if you trade in 4-star version*)

1-Star Trinket = 50 LD points
2-Star Trinket = 100 LD points
3-Star Trinket = 250 LD points
4-Star Trinket = 500 LD points
5-Star Trinket = 1000 LD points

Sparks of Life = 20 LD/BN points (must trade in 1 Enamorock and 1 Mod Calibrator)

*Doesn't have to be heated or unbound. All UVs will be lost.

"Legacy" Items
Enamorocks and Mod Calibrators become drops in the clockworks.
Krogmo coins are converted into sparks of life. One spark per every 50, rounded up.

Krogmo Booster and Bribery
Krogmo Boosters become "Coliseum Members Pass". These passes come in three tiers:
Rookie Pass (Expires in 30 days) costs 200 energy: No need to pay any entry fees.
Veteran Pass (Expires in 7 days) costs 800 energy: No entry fee, and get a free personal Krogmo bribe* every game if undisgraced.
King Pass (Expires in 7 days) costs 1600 energy: No entry fee, personal bribe*, and double point earnings (including those from bribe) at end of match.

*If there is a public bribe, it replaces the personal bribe

Bribery can be done as usual. However, the rewards are now modifiers that apply to the Kommendation earned that match. For example:
- +2 bonus to winner
- +2 bonus to everyone
- +5 bonus to winner
- +5 bonus to everyone
- x2 bonus to winner
- x2 bonus to everyone
- Very small chance of receiving a Coliseum Members Pass

Leader Boards
The leader boards display the top 10 players with the most Kommendation. Instead of refreshing the scoreboard every week, only players who did not play a single match that week is eliminated from the rankings. Once a player becomes active again, their Kommendation is put back into the rankings.
Since Kommendation is rewarded based on activity within matches, this actually makes it a decent indicator of Coliseum prowess.

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 09:39

Blandaxt

well...

It's definetly an interesting idea, but i was also hoping there would be some kind of ranking system to be able to tell new colisuem players to old ones. This way, just having the nicest gear doesn't mean your a coliseum veteran. The ranking system would show that users matches won and lost and there favorite class they like to play as. This way, players would be able to easily form team base around there play style.

Also, make it so that there is a way to play ad a group besides using guild matches. A way to form a team that can fight as on in the clockworks. This way, a new form of recruitment can be created and teams can have their own ranking system also. If a player in a team wants yo play in a colosium match and there whole team is not online, then they can just play under their own name by joining a random match.

The rankings for teams can be a sort of tournament that rewards players by the end of the week who kept the #1 spot for at least 12 hours in that week. The number one spot can be kept by matches won, but it can also be lost by matches lost. For each match that is won, the winning team takes 25% of that teams points. For each match lost, the losing team not only loses 25% of their points, but also drop 3 spots in the rankings. This means if the number one loses, they will have to fight and win 2 more matches to be nunber one again. I feel this kind of competativeness is what we need when it vomes to the pvp arenas.

Tue, 08/04/2015 - 15:24

Fangel

Hmm.

Seeing as the current krogmo coin boosters can be stacked, could membership passes be stacked? Would be nice to be able to get a x2 bribe 3 times in a winning match(ie, x8). Would make the "krogmo" grind be much more doable still, and definitely inspires your team to win!

And although I'm okay with the item swapping, I would much rather keep us getting the recipes from Sullivan for weapons. Perhaps a new armor set could be added with those new rules?

Wed, 08/05/2015 - 12:13

Deleted-Knight

It doesn't make sense to have two passes active. Maybe there can be different tiers of passes.
200 energy gets you the Rookie Pass (waived fee for Coliseum games), expires in 30 days
800 energy gets you the Veteran Pass (explained in OP), expires in 7 days
1600 energy gets you the King pass (veteran pass stuff, and also doubles the points you earn each match), expires in 7 days

The point of removing recipes is to drive the prices up. Then there's a legitimate reason to force people to play Coliseum more if they want the rewards.

Take a look at Voltedge: 3000 LD points for a 5 star brandish.
Suppose you lose every game, but never disgrace. You also average 2 captures and 0 defends. Then you would get 7 points per game (on average). 3000/7 = ~430 games, which translates to about 80k worth of entry fees and 71 hours of play time.
More realistically, suppose you lose only half your games and average 4 captures, 0.25 defend every match. You would get 12 points per game.
3000/12 = 250 games, which translates to about 50k entry fees and 42 hours of play time.
This is without any membership passes!
Also, spending 42 hours to get a special end-game weapon isn't over the top for an MMO.

As mentioned before, people aren't supposed to be "grinding" for items. Rather, the items are incentive for people to play PvP. The idea is by the time someone plays 200 games of PvP, they should be at least kind of emotionally invested in it.

Wed, 08/05/2015 - 12:23

Deleted-Knight

Oops, didn't notice your post

Oops, didn't notice your post Blandaxt.

The Leader Board system would be based on Kommendations accumulated. Old players would have to start fresh when the system takes affect. Gear isn't supposed to reflect your Lockdown prowess. It's just a reward for playing lots of PvP.

Favorite classes is tricky to quantify because what if someone dances around the locker room through all the shield-changing portals? It just doesn't work. Shield classes is also irrelevant because experienced players will be able to perform well with whatever class they are comfortable with. Just because strikers have a lower learning curve doesn't make strikers intrinsically better for any experienced player.

Win/Loss ratio for team-based games is not very representative, but it wouldn't hurt. It would definitely be good for BN random.

You might be overestimating the number of players who are willing to play PvP. Custom team-forming would outcast inexperienced people, and make it harder to get a match started. I think the random system is good. They just have to tweak the algorithm to take someone's Kommendations into account for more balanced games.

Wed, 08/05/2015 - 13:32

Fangel

Ehhhh

See you're expecting players to want to spend an average of 42 hours playing PvP for one item, then another 30 hours farming radiants to actually use the item. That's sort of the problem I'm seeing there.

Also, some players may not like playing PvP. Seeing as in the current state, PvP games are easier to get into with Lockdown, players will go there, get crushed, and then not want to play PvP anymore. It's a current problem, and making it harder for players to get in and out of PvP fast enough is a bad move.

"Maybe I want to enjoy the game, but as a bomber a stun haze bomb would really be useful for that darkfire vanaduke run. Oh, I have to play PvP, and blast network never has games in it, so I guess I'll play lockdown. Oh joy, I have to spend 42 hours grinding a PvP game with moderate connection, bad gear... And I lose points for not being good enough. Great."
We want to avoid a scenario above as much as possible, or similar situations. It's why krogmo coin boosters are great, and recipes are wonderful, especially since it means we can rage craft the item then build it up rather than start all over again when we want to upgrade the item.

Those are the only issues I really can see. No way to bypass the grind to make it bearable, nor make it arsenal friendly. Once similar bypasses are in place as the current system I'll give this sort of idea my 100% support.

Fri, 08/07/2015 - 09:13

Blandaxt

my point..

@Deleted-Knight: \/

- " Custom team-forming would outcast inexperienced people, and make it harder to get a match started. "

* This is not custom pvp, this is group pvp for guild vs guild matches. Instead of just guild vs guild, it would also be guild teams vs custom teams that way we can seem more guild matches/custom team matches be more active.

- "Favorite classes is tricky to quantify because what if someone dances around the locker room through all the shield-changing portals? It just doesn't work."

* Yes it would work. Your just blatantly going against it cause you don;t want to go through the trouble of finding a way for it to work. To make it work, we can simply make it that the system does not recognize your class until you get out of the gear changing room. This way, even if you dance around all you want in the shield changing room/gear changing room, your class would not be recognized until you come out your team's base.

- "Gear isn't supposed to reflect your Lockdown prowess. It's just a reward for playing lots of PvP."

* I was not saying gear would show your lockdown prowess. I am saying that most players think if someone has a black cat and black cat cloak, they think there already top LD players. We can change the notion that someone is good at pvp by just having top tier gear by having a ranking system that show's show's how much pvp matches you have been too, your wins vs. losses and your favorite class. This way, our play styles and experienced gets represented in a way as we keep playing pvp.

Fri, 08/07/2015 - 16:53

Deleted-Knight

Fangel,
Well, I was operating under the assumption that Coliseum equipment are exclusive rewards for those that play PvP. People shouldn't be playing PvP solely because they want the items. Otherwise, you will always encounter the problems Holy-Nightmare brought up.
Playing lots of PvP isn't supposed to be a grind. That's the whole point of PvP. It's supposed to be less repetitive than FSC. The goal is to make rewards that are realistically attainable, but only for those who really play Coliseum rather than "grind" for it. Of course you may disagree, but that's my intention.

Blandaxt,
1. Sorry, I'm not quite following you. If it's not custom PvP, what do you mean by "guild teams vs custom teams"?
How I interpret "custom teams":
Custom teams = people get to choose who joins their team = people who aren't good usually won't be chosen
Once you give the option to form custom teams, random matches will predominately be people who aren't experienced, since no veterans want noobs as their allies. This makes unbalanced matchups with leads to new people stop playing PvP.

2. The only realistic way a game can determine someone's favorite class is by looking at the time a player spends in a certain shield class.
If someone happens to stay alive longer as a guardian, does that mean guardian is his favorite class?
If someone switches between recon and striker frequently during a matches, should more weight be given to striker or to recon?
This is what I meant by "tricky". You can do it, but it's a whole lot of work.

I am saying that most players think if someone has a black cat and black cat cloak, they think there already top LD players

Well, if they aren't on the scoreboard, how good can they be? If they still lose more matches than they win how good can they be?
You can't make people stop being arrogant. They will just say whatever ranking you are using is trash. I don't think adding gear info would change that.

Basically, adding information about someone's "most used" equipment is a lot more work with little value gained.

Fri, 08/07/2015 - 18:31

Blandaxt

well..

@Deleted-Knight:

- "The only realistic way a game can determine someone's favorite class is by looking at the time a player spends in a certain shield class."

* It doesn't have to be realistic, and it can be done very easily at least in the way i am suggesting it. The same way the game tracks the number of hours/minutes we spend in the game, the game would track the 3 classes you can switch to. When ever a player steps out of the spawn room and leaves with a class, that class would have a counter and the counter would go up by 1. That same counter for each class would go up by 1 when ever that player steps out of the spawn room. The highest counter would count as that player's favorite class. Even if it's not true, that is the most frequently used class that player uses, so it counts as that players favorite class. See not too complicated.

- "This makes unbalanced matchups with leads to new people stop playing PvP."

* Having the ability to create custom teams does not lead to the ability to fight who ever you want. People won't stop playing pvp cause their group lost. Just because some people are better at pvp then others, does not mean other would stop playing. People stop playing a game when the game stops being fun. Right now, there are many good players in ld. When my team of random players join and fight a good team of random players, some people on my team stats to quit. But never have i seen everyone on my team stop playing completely. Not because we think there might be a chance that we can win or because we just want to annoy them before losing, but because we like playing ld to a certain point that we find it fun to keep playing anyway. So even of there is a top team out there that can beat any team in the custom matches, doesn't mean players will stop playing custom matches or that players will stop playing random matches either. Anyway, the point of this suggestion is to give more activity to guild matches in ld or bn because i feel the reason not that many players are playing guild vs guild matches is because they have to join a guild in order to fight as a team. If players could fight as a team no matter what guild they are in, then more players would play as a team in guild vs guild matches. Now instead of just guild vs guild, if my suggestion is implemented more players from anywhere as long as they meet the tier requirement can fight to represent their team. And since their are no restrictions on forming new teams, many players can join a team that will accept them.

Even if most veteran players went to play only team vs team matches, it would not mean players would stop playing random matches. That is a prediction that is grounded on what the players will do. Why would veteran players only care about winning? Or why would they only care about having only players they know on their team? Some players are different and play ld just for fun. I understand the players that are grinding ld for tokens, but all other players that have no end goal would still play ld random matches.

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Idea for Krogmo Overhaul