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New swarm enemies

2 replies [Last post]
Wed, 08/12/2015 - 16:24
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Dreams and Nightmares is a pretty nifty mission but what it lacks is new enemies! This isn't necessarily bad for that one mission since it introduces a lot for one mission (as well as raises the difficulty substantially) but for future segments a few new swarm baddies would be pretty sweet, especially since doing so would help cover the current swarm's weak spots big time.

Another thing is that the enemies are kind of just reskins of existing enemies with very few tweaks. I wanna see some sweet black and red monsters that don't play by the rules, ya know?

Swarm Devilites

Step 1: Start with overtimer AI (no "normal" devilites or bosses)
Step 2: Give them the lichen dash attack, which they will use instead of just walking forwards
Step 3: Never flinches.
Step 4: Enjoys its job, more than you will ever know

Swarm Gorgos.. combined with toxigels
(Looks like a regular gorgo.. but with toxigel texture- also shows as slime/fiend when targeted)

Step 1: Strong against piercing and shadow, neutral to elemental and normal
Step 2: If knights are close, bites to attack like gorgos do
Step 3: If knights are not close, uses toxigel spin attack (uses ground pound animation)

Swarm Phantom.. combined with black kat
(Just looks like a phantom)

Step 1: Immortal as usual (would have to only spawn on special levels)
Step 2: Summons swarm zombies instead of doing its charge with gran faust/weird striker thing
Step 3: Is capable of doing the kat dash attack at random
Step 4: Touching the phantom deals strong curse to your knight

Swarm Scuttlebot

Step 1: Double the health of a normal scuttlebot, also larger model
Step 2: If the knight is up close, does the gremlin flamethrower attack (that spreads out) instead of bullets
Step 3: If the knight is far away, shoots a rocket puppy rocket
Step 4: Immune to freeze and fire

Swarm Stalkers

Step 1: Has the ability to cast all of gremlin mender's abilities
Step 2: Has slightly less health, but regenerates to full HP when invisible very quickly
Step 3: Razor blades drop to the ground as deconstructor bombs
Step 4: Immune to status effects, except curse

Swarm Howlitzer

Step 1: Shoots five swarm themed grave scarabs instead of bullets
Step 2: Skull spawns said grave scarabs as it travels towards the knight
Step 3: Passively spawns grave scarabs every time it takes damage
Step 4: Is larger and has more health

Swarm Totem

Step 1: Ressurects all swarm creatures, not just zombies
Step 2: Knight is cursed if inside of its circle of friendship (+10=max+max+med) curse resist to be immune
Step 3: Passively heals monsters, and gives them an attack buff

Swarm Griever

Step 1: Cannot be flinched, but is slower
Step 2: Always leaves trail of status effect cloud
Step 3: Attacks spawn 8 swarm bullets, in all directions

Swarm Toxilargo

Step 1: Passive health regeneration
Step 2: Has snarbolax's spike teleporting attack as its dash, goes to behind knight like a wolver would
Step 3: As it is attacked, random parts fly off (like from royal jelly fight) spawning glop drops

Swarm Lichen Colony

Step 1: When killed breaks into all of its smaller parts; i.e. normal swarm lichens which build it again at full hp
Step 2: Cannot do a normal attack, only the AoE spikes + random spin
Step 3: Dashes towards the source of bullets

Swarm Trojan

Step 1: Stomp attack does an AoE like tortodrone's does, but with shock
Step 2: Aggros knights that are charging a weapon first
Step 3: Much larger sword and range, no need for it to dash
Step 4: Attacks more frequently and with slightly faster animations

Swarm Rocket Puppy

Step 1: Shielded like a battle pod (Shield can be killed to get inside of it)
Step 2: Spawns Big Iron's tentacles from GitM when knights circle strafe it
Step 3: Shoots 3 rockets, then takes a while to reload

Swarm Kleptolisk (combined with deadnaut)
(Very large kleptolisk, displays as beast/undead)

Step 1: Resists shadow and elemental, neutral to normal, weak to piercing
Step 2: Very long tongue, which tracks the knight and steals vitapod then pills then other things
Step 3: Can become fully invisible and teleport (while invisible, so that it looks right) after a short while
Step 4: Resurrects swarm zombies
Step 5: AI resembles ghostmane stalker- find a good spot and try to snipe the knight, but with tongue

Design philosophy

The core shouldn't be a normal area and it shouldn't have normal rewards or normal difficulty.. it should offer players something to strive for, a reason to craft and grind for all of that fancy gear. None of this is just "fake difficulty" either- not just an increase in health and damage, but something truly terrifying.

All of the above exist in game somewhere as well- meaning that all of the mechanics are both easier to code and learned by players. The only big difference is the attack pattern + level of difficulty, which could be mitigated earlier on via level design, leading up to larger challenges that the game is sorely lacking at the moment.

Many of the above are designed to muck about with popular play styles- pepperbox is the only autogun that can counter swarm gorgos, and swarm trojans are going to be a lot harder to blitz through like you just don't care when they aggro you and stomp you at a distance... black kat set isn't nearly as useful when curse becomes commonplace... and brandish spam? Good luck with that against all of the minis and dividing enemies. You'll need much larger area of effect attacks for these.

Wed, 08/12/2015 - 16:29
#1
Amnimonus
+1

Except for the fiend i think there was a reason there was now fiend swarm monsters but I don't quite remember it.

But aside from that I am all for more intimidating enemies

Ps: ( and i thought my monster suggestion where too strong)

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 15:56
#2
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Oh geez

Looking at these, they wouldn't be easily incorporated with what we've got currently for the swarm as a whole.

From what I can see, the Swarm act as an endless enemy that, although not necessarily powerful on their own, come at you in large numbers and have a very large variety of monster types. With that philosophy, there should be absolutely no way for swarm monsters to be healed, or to be respawned outside of a natural swarm spawner, as each encounter with swarm monster is calculated by how many are in there, not how fast you can kill the one thing that's spawning so many things.

Before I go too far in depth, I want to point out the classes we have so far in comparison to a regular level set:

(referring to the classes listed here)
Lumber/Ironwood Sentinel - Brute
Gremlin Thwacker - Elite
Toxigel - Grunt (Additionally, the ranged monster)
Wolver - Grunt
Zombie - Grunt
Swam Turret - Turret

So that being said, we have a lot of grunts that we can put together to make a huge swarm of monsters, but we also have a lot of combinations to make different kinds of challenges together. However, if we add a single swarm monster to the standard spawners, it opens up a lot in terms of difficulty when you pair enemies together.

First things first, let's go over the categories which the swarm enemies currently do not use:

  • Monster class - Giant
  • Monster class - Drone
  • Monster class - Support
  • Monster type - Fiend

So, first off, let me set my foot down saying swarm enemies get their power from numbers, and do not need to be buffed by healing enemies. However, if we want to fill all the gaps, I have an idea:

Swarm Silkwing
Will fill fiend gap and support gap
The swarm silkwing will act like a standard silkwing, however instead of healing nearby monsters it will buff their defense by 50%. When it dies, it spawns a swarm seed (aka, a new mini swarm source). The swarm seed must be brought down to the minimum size 5 times to be destroyed.

Swarm Silkwings can be added easily to current swarm encounters without unbalancing anything, and can be added in the final arena in Dreams and Nightmares every 2 or 3 waves without causing the level to be unbeatable.

Alright, next we need two more monster classes, Drones and Giants.

Taking your idea and running with it...

Swarm Toxilargo
Will fill the giant gap and unintentionally the drone gap
The swarm toxilargo would act like a giant lichen colony, but leave a trail of poison behind it. Every hit it would drop a poison-swarm-themed glop drop. Glop drops attack like standard glop drops, but are as broken as the royal jelly minis such that DR would not hit them, and they would stop projectiles every so often, and knockback can be broken with them.
yes I know I mentioned monsters shouldn't be able to spawn other monsters, but in this case you can control how many monsters are being spawned by just not hitting the darned boss monster
The swarm toxilargo can also absorb standard swarm toxigels for a 5% damage reduction. This can stack up to 25% and is permanent once they combine. This will also give the toxilargo all its health back like a standard lichen colony fusion would.

Swarm Toxilargos could be added in as a miniboss of sorts. When paired up with swarm silkwings, and if they spawn around some toxigels then they can have up to a 75% damage reduction. Even with max damage boost these monsters would take a while to take down. Heck, the swarm source/seed might even make them invulnerable (100% damage reduction) if paired with a silkwing and toxigels.

These monsters would be special, and only spawn in designated areas. The glop drops might be able to be dropped in some other places too, but keeping them in the toxilargo fight would be better.

Bottom line is that these two/three monsters allow the swarm to still be a fightable entity without going down the route of harder is better. From what I can see, swarm-based levels are going to be hard by monster setup, not by the physical monsters inside.
Remember: tough content isn't always the same thing as hard/fun content. Grinchlin Assault's final arena isn't all that fun. However, fighting two tortodrones is fun. Both things are hard, but one of them is eons more fun(might be subjective, but when the common strategy for the Grinchlin Assault's boss is to use sparks of life, whereas Tortodrones actually has many gameplay strategies, it says a lot to me).

I mean, if you're really attached to any one of these monsters in particular let me know so I can give my thoughts/ideas on how it could work out with the swarm. The monster ideas aren't bad, but they definitely could use some practicality thrown in there because we're not just fighting 4 swarm devilites ever, it's going to be like 4 swarm devilites, 8 swarm gremlin thwackers, 2 swarm lumbers, and 14 swarm zombies... Plus void souls and swarm turrets.

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