Spiral Knights - 2 new weapons (Charge only gun and sword)

2 new weapons (Charge only gun and sword)

8 replies [Last post]

Mon, 08/17/2015 - 08:15

Holy-Nightmare

A lot of talk has been put into giving bombs a standard attack.... lets turn the tables with charge only guns and swords. Here are just a few ideas I have had.

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Gun: Branches from 3 star Blaster (normal)

Phantom's howl 4*: Normal damage

Banshee's scream 5*: Normal damage

Fiend's screech 5*: Shadow sidegrade

This gun line has no regular attack

Charge attack: A blaster charge like bullet is fired and penetrates foes for moderate damage, no knockback is done. Every foe hit gives off a shockwave that deals damage to surrounding enemies. (Note: Shockwave does not lead to other shockwave)

The damage for all of this would be quite low against individual targets, this weapon would shine when combined with vortex bombs where it can hit multiple foes and sent out multiple waves that spread damage. The starting AOE of the shockwave would be quite small but would eventually reach the size of a 2 star mist bomb. http://wiki.spiralknights.com/File:Toxic_Vaporizer_blast_radius.png

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Sword: Branches from 3 star Calibur

Based on attack patterns of:
Rook: http://www.regencychess.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/how-rook-m...
King: http://www.activityvillage.co.uk/sites/default/files/images/king-moves.jpg
Queen: http://www.chessvariants.org/d.chess/queenmov.gif

Rook's Heart 4*: Normal

Charge attack releases a 2 hits spin and 4 nearby explosions, much like a short range brandish attack. 2 explosions in each direction.

King's Soul 5*: Normal/Shadow

Charge attack releases a 3 hit spin and 8 nearby explosions that deal high damage. The explosions of this bomb would go off after the spin (which would flinch but not cause knockback), these bursts would be the same size as the proto bomb blast. These Blasts would cause strong knockback like an Irontech.

Queen's Wrath 5*: Normal/Elemental

Charge attacks releases a one hit spin and a chain of 3 explosions in 8 different directions. The explosions for this would be slightly lower than a 1/3 of the King's Soul explosion due to the extra range. These explosions would also be smaller; about the size of the brandish explosions.

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Concern for balance: These weapons have much higher charge attack damage than other similar guns/swords, this is to offset the lack of a standard attack. If attack is spammed it will result in a similar situation to clickspamming with a bomb.... you just end up rapidly transitioning from charge stance to neutral stance.

Uses: These are meant to be powerful and wisely used spike damage attacks. Since you are vulnerable while charging a fair amount of skill is needed which is why these lines branch off at 4*

Raw power estimation: The cumulative raw power of these weapons I estimate to be in the range of;

For guns: Similar to Magnus charges plus their neutral combo meaning that for the ones listed the shockwave+bullet > one single magnus charge hit but not my much.

For swords: Raw total damage against crowds would be greater than an Acheron or Nightblade but due to the spread of the attack it would be less useful against single or small groups.

Tue, 08/18/2015 - 11:12

Holy-Nightmare

....

Updated OP

Tue, 08/25/2015 - 18:39

Holy-Nightmare

Input

Need input...

Tue, 08/25/2015 - 19:56

Trymal

Hmm...

Sounds interesting, but it may frustrate some people...
Are the charge attacks more powerful than normal gun charge attacks? (If you already answered that in your post, sorry.)

Tue, 08/25/2015 - 20:04

Falminar

@Trymal

Concern for balance: These weapons have much higher charge attack damage than other similar guns/swords, this is to offset the lack of a standard attack.

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 00:12

Trymal

Sorry, I missed that part!

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 10:28

Fangel

Well alright then.

I know the purpose of the post but I don't have too much to add to it.

Criticisms that I have are that these are unique bombs being called swords/guns. Because of this, why not add a utility/enhancing ability to the weapon's regular hits?
For the sword, be able to do the standard 3-swing combo. However, this combo will apply a MSD debuff on enemies on the first two hits, and strong stun on the final hit(none of the debuff/statuses would be 100%). Damage dealt would be 5-10% of the weapon's charge damage. This makes the sword have some utility in setting up its charge attacks, and still be able to break minerals and finish off enemies.

For the gun, have each standard bullet fire off a sort of "dud" round that has moderate knockback (a bit more power than a 4* shield bump), and allow the standard hit to also apply a defense down debuff. This allows for more synergy with the weapon and you knock enemies closer to each other and lower their defense before applying a lethal charge. The gun's dud shots would deal 5-10% of the weapon's charge damage at point blank, but this invisible bullet would not go further than 1 tile. The standard dud round would travel a distance of 4 tiles.

These make the sword/gun more utility while still not being a true weapon of their classes. Catalyzers primary shot was turned into utility/setup, so I can see new weapon's primary attacks still there but not good for attacking.

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 10:44

Holy-Nightmare

@ Fangel

I do like the idea of them having abilities to setup. The swords I envisioned as being fairly large so 2 swings would be fine but it would have to be Troika slow and still pretty weak in comparison. Applying an MSI debuff would help with charge time for this weapon and would allow further away enemies to get closer while they pile up on the slow ones.

The gun on the other hand could have another effect. A 2 shot combo that fires large bullets (Pulsar expanded shot size), these bullets pass through foes and each one it hits draws allies closer to it. This bullet does little damage (like 10s in T3) and clumps up enemies to setup the charge.

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 11:45

Fangel

Hmm

Yeah having setup abilities separates them back into their proper categories. If catalyzer charge shots spawned a bunch of explosions without tagging the enemy first it would essentially be a long range bomb.

Glad you like the sword one! You said it branched off from a calibur so I assumed it would have a calibur attack style. My own thoughts were MSD -> Stun as MSD doesn't affect attack speed, and in order to encourage people to actually use this weapon's combo, making stun on the final hit and a strong stun was my thought process. Since swords always do more damage on their final swing anyways, I figured adding a strong status to it would be good.
After you get all of them grouped up the charge attack can be unleashed!

This also starts a ball rolling for general "support" weapons that have weak but crippling standard attacks, but powerful/situational charge attacks.

For the gun that's an interesting idea. - I reread it and rewrote this section as I thought you meant to drag them towards you rather than make them a magnet for other monsters - Having bullets pass through enemies would be kinda odd, especially because it might make this sort of moving vortex of enemies attracting others to each other. I'd say have the bullet act as a sort of magnet for other monsters around them would be good. Not a mobile vortex bomb, but rather enemies within 4 or 5 tiles would act as if they had been hit by knockback towards this other monster. Give the bullet a fair amount of knockdown so whatever target is hit stays in one place to allow for other monsters to be "drawn" to it. Also apply a "defense down" to the monster hit by the bullet.

Liking the idea a lot more now. Utility weapon being half utility and half weapon is something I'd love to see more of.

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2 new weapons (Charge only gun and sword)