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Random Questions I want someone to explain to me... please?

12 replies [Last post]
Wed, 08/19/2015 - 04:56
Midnight-Dj's picture
Midnight-Dj

My days playing RP is well and truly done with, now that Spiral Knights Forum is about as dead as the last time I visited a compound level, but much like the many RPs Thinslayer abandoned, there are so many loose ends, so many things I witnessed with no real answer to (and no, Bible will almost certainly not give me any of those answers).

I will hereby lay down some questions, although I am sure most of you would turn around and keep silence, but I hereby request you all, for one time, make me understand just why any of you would do such a things?

Question no. 1 - Why is digital better?

I drew traditional art for the longest time around here, I think I can even make the bold statement that I made the most amount of SK related drawings, even more than Ian himself. I never charge money for my art, not because I think they are worthless, but for I think that my artistic energy should never be directed by the lust for money, that stains the nature of my art.

I have drawn many arts for other people (three pieces for Thinslayer which he never, EVEN replied a single word to), often thankless, I even had a digital artist calling me that it is 'Unbecoming' of me to fish for a compliment, but I want to ask you, if I invest effort, time and dedication to a piece of art work, and it was made with you in mind, should it worth any less? I am not asking for 'OMG MDJ your ART IS THE BEST', because that simply isn't true. But 'Thanks,' or 'Good job midnight' would be very much appreciated.

Now imagine you, in my position, and witness as those who didn't thank you for your effort, running off like dogs on mating season, jumping onto the nearest digital artist and start throwing CEs at them, you should have an approximation of what I am thinking right now.

Oh, Vinny, this is your last year's Xmas art exchange present.

Question no. 2 - Why does a RP take so long?

No, I am not talking about the length of the whole RP, a long RP is fine, just look at how machinauts turned out. But I want to know why is it so difficult for anyone, even the GM to advance the story/plot even for a bit, I know it is meant to give character some development, shaping the world around them as they see fit (Thinslayer's intervention not withheld) but does it really have to take THAT long?

Take clockwork heroes for example (Why didn't Thin just revive Skylark Fall RP?), the story lasted for 2 months, and all that happened was all of the RP characters got to the rescue camp, remember Skylark fall? My RP character got to the rescue camp in no more than ten posts and not before looking like badass while doing it, call me overly glorifying my characters, trying to make your character act all depressed, survival inclined, generally mean spirited and creepy isn't any better now is it? We all have that one character archetype we want to play, so why is mine deplored? I can go slow if I choose to, in fact, the character APP I submitted the first time to clockwork heroes was meant to be played out slowly.

And I can already see the replies of 'it is the journey that matters, not the destination', but has anyone thought of character closures? I have so many RP characters that have loose ends and their journeys unfinished, it is like when you are 20 years old and have lost both of your legs in a car crash, your dreams and your future crushed and forever altered. Can I please have some closures? Or at least knowing that the journey I followed through meant something?

And no offense Hexlash, but if you are reading this, I am sure your character is hiding in the corner somewhere, or in another position where his/her well being is not likely going to be harmed, and your character is making some of observation on other RP character again isn't she/he? And I am sure Thin only made Cherub to rub it in my face with the whole 'I cherish life but in reality is it better just to shoot people in the head mercilessly because that is true Mercy for that is what the bible told me.' motif.

Oh, and Doc, is your character an easy going, hyper optimistic, happy go-lucky guy/gal? Hey, I don't blame you, because we need someone to offset Darkwatch and Vinny now don't we? Oh, and is Liminori still struggling to write?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am an artist, not a RPer, I seek new things, changes in things, especially in a RP, this is why I am trying to come up with new RP themes when everyone else seemed to just want to go safe, how many times have we played 'I crashed on skylark and this is my story' any way? Too many IMO, it is in my artistic nature to express myself and point out the cliches, and hey, if you think I am repeating/copying themes in my stories, then I am going to admit it, please, tell me how I can change and improve.

I think that is all the question I have for now... there is more in my mind, thousands of them, we can be here to debating to the next Xmas if we want to, but please, I do not want to have any elongated debate with anyone anymore, I am tired of endless talking with no significant outcomes, talking to people who will never accept my believes and ideals is like smashing my head against a wall. It is painful and pointless, and I am sure you think the same way to (I think you know who 'you' are), so without any a due, maybe you can give me an answer and maybe then I will have some peace.

Wed, 08/19/2015 - 12:42
#1
Liminori's picture
Liminori
Struggling to write

As someone who does similar things, I will answer some of your questions; since apparently it's a lot easier to do than make a post on an RP.

1: I've never truly complimented your work, nor looked down upon it, but mainly because I felt a small compliment was a petty and uneeded one, much like I find it hard to come up with a good one.

I've only asked a digital artist on one occasion for art. Why? I don't have CE, I don't have money. Which is why you get more requests from me; I don't plan on going into SK again for a long, long time. Perhaps why digital artist get so much praise is that people think it's harder than physical art. And it really is, if you suck at converting pencil/brushstrokes into mouse led art, like me.
I guess it may be a bit late, and incredibly watered down, by reading all this, but thank you for the art you've done for me.

2: Why? It's clearly not experience, as shown by Thin. It's more the cooperation of everyone, and getting everyone to post on time, as well as the author's belief in the story.
I can't really answer your question in all of it's weight, but perhaps I can grant some insight.
I find it's a chore to pull a story out of my backend, because I generally have absolutely nothing planned beforehand.
I hope to god that it comes to me in the heat of the moment, before the story gets stale.
This is, perhaps, why my grades in English/Language Arts fly through the roof and back to vog on a weekly basis.
It is, also why, I usually don't post RP's.

"Struggling to write"
Now, that's a low blow, but definitely true.
However, me not posting whatsoever for a little more than two weeks wasn't procrastination, this time.
I've been busy moving.
-
Sorry if this wasn't helpful, and thank you for reading through this.

Wed, 08/19/2015 - 13:12
#2
Hexlash's picture
Hexlash
Hopefully, you feel better now

First things first, you're absolutely right! XD
I cannot think of a single RP character I've made that's been on the front lines, so either I play way too many out of the way, passive characters, or I have a really bad memory (or both!). I guess it's just reflective of my nature to be more reserved and not lead in the spotlight. Same way you play very emphatic and expressive characters. It may not necessarily represent who you are, but it is a trend that seems to have its roots in your personality.

1. The simplest way I see it, is that digital art looks cleaner, I suppose, and that finds appeal in more people. Perhaps it also has to do with some subconscious bias, that traditional art is worse, because the artist isn't good enough to purchase the equipment to produce art digitally. That's obviously not true, but I totally see where you're coming from. Why your art is underrated and under-appreciated, I do not know. It's somewhat subjective, as well; some people just don't like your art style, and that's okay. In my opinion, I think you've gotten a lot better, and you should be really proud of your art, especially your consistency. Of course, I understand that it's hard to feel good about yourself if you don't receive any praise, and I'm lucky that I have someone to do that for me. You've really developed your own art style and that you keep doing so, constantly, and despite difficulties is admirable. Although you don't see me in your art thread, I have poked my head in to look at some of your art. And you're really good, like, the detail in the drawing in your OP is crazy.

2. One thing I know is that it's a whole ton easier to start something than finish it, haha, and I guess we just get too eager in jumping into RPs, without putting in the effort to actually have the full story planned out ahead of time. Of course, this is never the fault of the GM alone. The players may branch off and make it hard to have a defined plot, without relinquishing freedom. And, as always, life is constantly in the way. Even though RPs have been around for quite some time in the TV, whatever have yet to truly figure out how to create and handle a good RP, but really, that'll take time, if we can even think of any plots to use at all, still. o.O

As to why your characters are generally "deplored", it's a complex issue. As with your art, I feel like it has to do with a certain prejudice. Maybe you get too pushy with your characters, and make it aggravating to other players who don't do the same for the sake of the plot? I really don't know, just throwing a guess out there.

I've tried my best to be fairly passive whenever disputes arise, and I apologize if I've ever personally offended you. As I said, I hope getting this off your chest makes you feel better. You have amazing perseverance, both in art and literature. Keep it up! Look at the positives. I'm not sure what else to say, but hopefully this helps.

(Ninja'd by Lim. Hi!)

Wed, 08/19/2015 - 13:42
#3
Archemiday-Thebard's picture
Archemiday-Thebard
Respect being lost.

I'd normally answer your questions, but you're acting like a complete child to be honest Midnight. Hexlash usually plays a more "Off the front lines" role, similar to how I usually play a "support" role. I highly doubt Thin made Cherub just to rub a moral in your face. If you felt like he was, a person message to him would have sufficed, not a forum post. Also, stop trying to repeatedly start flame wars over religion. You'll hurt more people than you think you will when you throw out generalized insults. As for Doc, Darkwatch, and Vinny, they play darker or lighter characters, it's what they do. It's normal. As for your characters that you make, Midnight, sometimes they're just completely unfitting. Pink Galaxy, for example, just had no place in the RP. A fourth wall breaking flirt machine doesn't belong in a serious setting, would do nothing to benefit the plot, and would provide comedic relief equal to that of a minion (goodness I hate those things) from Despicable Me. Oh, and you took a completely unprovoked potshot at Liminori.

I've always respected your artwork and most of your role play work, but now I just have no respect for you. You've insulted multiple forumers here, and for that, I will not talk to you on the level I would talk to a friend ever again.

Wed, 08/19/2015 - 13:58
#4
Midnight-Dj's picture
Midnight-Dj
Something to say

@Hexlash and Limi

Thanks for the reply and all the best wishes with your lives (both in this game and IRL), this reply maybe short but I am expressing my most sincere gratitude none the less.

@Archemiday

;_; why ninja me?

I'd normally answer your questions, but you're acting like a complete child to be honest Midnight.

I have been holding back on these questions for a LONG time, arch, for years actually, this is in fact the first time I actually requested a feedback on anyone on these topics. I simply cannot carry on like this when there are so many loose ends.

Also, stop trying to repeatedly start flame wars over religion.

Yes, I already made it clear that I will never be a part of any flame wars ever again, it has been like, 6 months since there is any forms of active exchange on this forum, or heck, this forum as a whole. So I will keep these replies short.

You'll hurt more people than you think you will when you throw out generalized insults.

I think we have gotten through this already, if you are not ready to have your personal opinion to be scrutinized against, then stay off the internet.

Pink Galaxy, for example, just had no place in the RP. A fourth wall breaking flirt machine doesn't belong in a serious setting, would do nothing to benefit the plot, and would provide comedic relief equal to that of a minion (goodness I hate those things) from Despicable Me.

The only problem is that I am actually trying something new with PG, something that I have not tried with my other characters, she is weak and pathetic and doesn't contribute, and yet you all complain when Saboteur and Affraiel are out kicking butts, contributing to the plot and the team?

You've insulted multiple forumers here, and for that, I will not talk to you on the level I would talk to a friend ever again.

I am only making a general observation here, I did not deplore anyone's writing style or suggest they should do otherwise, we all write and express the way we wanted to, maybe I hit some bulls eye with those observation and generalization, but they are simply observation and generalization. And I have said before in another debate, that I will never be able to understand things the same way as you, and you have, again, proven it to be true.

----

I will be off the internet for now for 8 hours or so, life calls, so if you want this thread to be graveyard-ed, it would be done by then, or by an admin, IDK.

Wed, 08/19/2015 - 14:16
#5
Liminori's picture
Liminori
@Archemiday

"Unprovoked Potshot"
That isn't really true.
The way I see this, between you and Midnight, is an arguement.
Once, I used to absolutely and resolutely despise Midnight, and his out of placeishness, his boldly stated opinions, and so on.
But, now that I'm somewhat older, I'm looking at it all from another angle.
I think it all mostly constructive criticism, rather than a hasty comment typed in rage, or snarky rude comments in the format of sarcasm.
Note that I'm not defending anyone else's position, like Thin's.
That's because they'll comment positively or negatively regardless of my opinion (Or won't), And also because it would pretty much start a flame war that, as Midnight himself has said, he won't (And most likely doesn't want to) participate in.

Wed, 08/19/2015 - 14:22
#6
Archemiday-Thebard's picture
Archemiday-Thebard

I get that you're trying to ask questions, but the way you're going about it is poor, in my opinion.

"And I am sure Thin only made Cherub to rub it in my face with the whole 'I cherish life but in reality is it better just to shoot people in the head mercilessly because that is true Mercy for that is what the bible told me.' motif." I'd have been ok with that quote, but you needlessly threw the Bible in there for no reason. There was no need to mention the Bible, yet you did it anyways.

I'm fine with random people scrutinizing me, but when someone I know does it, it hurts a whole lot more and a lot more is at risk.

This bit I can't reply to, as the only RP I did with any of those characters is with Saboteur during the one RP I can't even remember the name to.

"I am only making a general observation here, I did not deplore anyone's writing style"

"And no offense Hexlash, but if you are reading this, I am sure your character is hiding in the corner somewhere, or in another position where his/her well being is not likely going to be harmed, and your character is making some of observation on other RP character again isn't she/he?"

That doesn't exactly seem like a friendly or constructive observation.

" And I am sure Thin only made Cherub to rub it in my face with the whole 'I cherish life but in reality is it better just to shoot people in the head mercilessly because that is true Mercy for that is what the bible told me.' motif."

Not exactly an observation, more so a poor conclusion that you over analyze Thin's characters. While I myself will admit that sometimes Thin can push his beliefs a bit too much, he doesn't make characters and an entire roleplay to rub something in your face.

"Oh, and is Liminori still struggling to write?"

While true, as Liminori agrees to it, it still hits as a low blow. There would be nicer ways to word that question that doesn't make it look like a gut punch.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Lim. While I can see how this could all be criticism, none of it is showing up as that. Sure, this is an argument. An argument I've had wanted to had for a while.

Wed, 08/19/2015 - 14:45
#7
Liminori's picture
Liminori
.-.

Arguement: AKA basically a flame war

Wed, 08/19/2015 - 14:55
#8
Hexlash's picture
Hexlash
This post totally isn't out of place.

Little did we know, this is all a massive role play. But where's the OOC? :0

Wed, 08/19/2015 - 15:00
#9
Liminori's picture
Liminori
The true ninja

Somehow, I think we've accidentally blended IC and OOC.
...
...
...
Fuuka: "I sense death!"
Aigis: "INEEDJURHALP"
Mitsuru: "Marin Karin!"
Yuki: "..."

HOW DID YOU ALL MESS UP SO MUCH, AUGH!
*Loads previous save*
Well... Looks like I've got a mess to clean up.

Wed, 08/19/2015 - 16:54
#10
Doctorspacebar's picture
Doctorspacebar
The things you miss when you're training Pokemon.

On the first point, my character Ragnir is both a descendant of space vikings and a (relatively) new recruit, gets into spats with his little sister, and all-around definitely fits the "Boisterous Bruiser" archetype, so I can't say for sure. Sadly, Juli the hyperactive partially-insane science geek hasn't really gotten a chance to shine.

I like to mix comedic and serious elements, anyway. Done right, I've seen it work really well.

First off, your art. I know I've complimented your art submissions when they popped up in Machinauts OOC, and you're quite good at what you do. I'm no art critic, but the stuff you draw generally looks cool. I remember the Fallen King fanart in particular looks like a combination between Warhammer 40K and Sp'Knights, which is loads of awesome.

Right, your main complaint is about Forum RPs in general. More specifically, it largely revolves around perceived mistakes of other people (referred to herein as "roleplayers"). Some of these are simply stylistic differences. Take me, I tend toward making more optimistic characters, like Squire Pholy from Machinauts and the aforementioned Ragnir and Juli. But is that really a flaw? In all three of these cases, the RPs already have their share of other personalities, like (in Machinauts) the more stoic Nautilus and the enigmatic... guy who left the Audio Log at the end of Chapter 1, and of course player characters. And if I'm good at the upbeat characters, why should I not have any?

Some others are complaints about complaints- but in a few cases you're not trying to look at it from the recipient's angle. There was no problem with Affraiel (the orc from Yore of Almire); problems in Yore of Almire came from major additions you tried to make to the plot that admittedly would've slowed down the story. Pink-Galaxy would've been an entertaining character to have around, but it sounds like you went on an angry rant in previous RPs and Thinslayer didn't want to deal with any more angry rants. Think about it. If I'd waltzed into something you made and started badmouthing every single decision you made that I didn't like, then went on to insult your most strongly-held beliefs and otherwise make a scene, would you want me to join your RP?

Now, a few of the grievances you raised may have backing. But, honestly, people make mistakes. I make mistakes (just look at the whole "Oopsie, Matikclocker didn't actually get toasted by Polyboros after all" fiasco a while ago for a great example), you make mistakes, everyone makes mistakes. That's where proper criticism comes in; mistakes are naturally corrected through the process of accepting criticism. Angry mudslinging is not criticism, and is, in fact, the antithesis of proper, constructive criticism. (Of course, there are the people that are too arrogant to accept ANY criticism, and they may have to be banned from an RP if they get nasty enough- but you don't need to shout at them to do that, either.) Sometimes, though, you just have to give people a break. Maybe something in real life is giving them crap, maybe they got excited about something and missed a point or two, or maybe they were just tired that day- but they're not TRYING to make mistakes, so cut them some slack.

And now to address the angry antitheist rant. Sono got right to the point: badmouthing the Bible to a Christian (or badmouthing the basis of anyone's beliefs, really) isn't going to make them want to spend any time talking to you. Some of us appreciate a calm, level-headed, reasoned debate on a good day, but that goes out the window when all your posts on the matter sound like shouting.

Take that last parenthetical statement in the first paragraph. What does it add? You've already established that you're looking for answers to questions that likely would have been answered anyway. Putting "No, the Bible won't give me answers" in at that point doesn't help you find answers to your questions, and sounds rude to boot. There's no apparent method to the rudeness. It's just rudeness for rudeness' sake. This is about as effective at making people give you a straight answer as a herring is at chopping down a tree. Removing it would enhance the quality of your post.

To sum up, your art is good and I haven't seen a problem with it. In regards to interacting with people online, you really need to cut down on the rudeness, understand that people have differing opinions and [insert thing here] styles, and cut people some slack.

Wed, 08/19/2015 - 17:17
#11
Archemiday-Thebard's picture
Archemiday-Thebard

Doctorspacebar used hammer!
Hit the head of the nail!
Super effective!

Wed, 08/19/2015 - 19:43
#12
Lizzi's picture
Lizzi

http://puu.sh/jHfSI/aa8e3db67c.png

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