Stat-wise it is comparable to the Heater shield or the Power Mitt. The most noticeable difference is that the Teddy shield offers TWO status resists while the Heater Shield and Power Mitt only have ONE status resist.
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Heater_Shield
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Power_Mitt
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Teddy_Bear_Buckler
#P2W #Powercreep
It offers a similar role and the same status resists but they are related only in that way. The amount of normal and shadow defense of the Teddy Buckler match the amount of normal and elemental defense of the Heater shield and Power mitt.
The Gorgomega is a sidegrade of the Dread Skelly shield which offers the same number of status resists and the exact same amount of normal and shadow defense.
So Dread Skelly, Gorgomega, and Teddy Bear are all different but comparable in power.
Perhaps the complaint should be about Heater Shield and Power Mitt being underpowered.
Now they are yes, I would be fine if they were given a new status resist but right now the Teddy Buckler is the most powerful of the 3.
Gorgomega is one of the Tortodrone shields. All but the Grand tortoise have identical values in defense. They are in different areas but the normal, type damage bars are the same and all have 2 status resists.
Similar are the Defensive line shields: Royal Jelly, Grey Owlite, and Dread Skelly. Identical defenses in different types. 2 status resists.
The Heater shield existed as a sidegrade to the Aegis. It offered unique defense values and a single status resist. The Power Mitt came along as a near clone offering Fire instead of Freeze and while I was against it as a Box only item I could agree it was balanced. The Teddy Buckler on the other hand does share the same values in defense but it offers more status resists. This sets it apart from the other two.
Not like this is a big issue or anything though. Very minor if anything
The issue is that it is still a P2W item.
Valve noticed that players in TF2 did not like the concept of Pay to Win sets (some even stopped playing) and changed that in the 2013 patch.
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/July_10,_2013_Patch
I'm confused as to why you care about this and not the buffed cold iron vanquisher variant. This isn't really even that incredible- it's both the same as gorgomega and basically worse than dread skelly/crest of almire, as those cover the 4 major statuses. Really it's just a novelty.. though on the same token, I see no reason for it to have unique stats when it could instead just behave like dread skelly and cause zero issues with it being somewhat pay two win.
The point of my Dread Skelly post above is: If I can get shields that are comparable in power from the Hall of Heroes, then this special new shield does not bother me much.
https://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkdpe6Frbt1qd58j4o1_400.gif
Lets put this into math.
Here is our Control (base)
Heater shield has:
X Normal Defense
Y Type Defense
Z Shield HP
and 1 status resists
________________
Dread Skelly/Gorgomega has:
less than X Normal Defense (Lower than Heater)
more than Y Type Defense (Higher than Heater)
equal to Z Shield HP (Same as Heater)
and 2 status resists (Higher than Heater)
This shield has 3 incongruences with the Heater
______________________
Power Mitt has:
equal to X Normal Defense (Same as Heater)
equal to Y Type Defense (Same as Heater)
equal to Z Shield HP (Same as Heater)
and 1 status resists (Same as Heater)
This shield has 0 incongruences with the Heater, making it the most similar shield in the game.
_____________________
Teddy Bear Buckler has:
equal to X Normal Defense (Same as Heater)
equal to Y Type Defense (Same as Heater)
equal to Z Shield HP (Same as Heater)
and 2 status resists (Higher than Heater)
This shield has 1 incongruences with the Heater, making it the more powerful.
This shield has 2 incongruences with the Dread Skelly/Gorgomega meaning they are less similar that the Heater which has only 1.
Everything you've said is reasonable. Yes, Teddy Bear is clearly more powerful than Heater. I acknowledged that in post #3.
My point is that many shields are as powerful as Teddy Bear, or even more powerful (BTS and SSB). Teddy Bear is not overpowered, compared to most shields. Rather, the problem is that Heater is clearly underpowered, compared to most shields. Do you agree?
Rather, the problem is that Heater is clearly underpowered, compared to most shields. Do you agree?
Yep, I don't even know why OP is using it in comparisons when it's clearly one status down compared to practically EVERY other shield.
Does anyone actually USE Heater Shield?
I do. I used to use it in Grinchlin Assault and when the clockworks had a lot of freeze levels.
The Teddy Bear Buckler doesn't have the move speed penalty the Gorgomega has, either. Looks liike it might be the best defensive shield for Heart of Ice.
The Teddy Bear Buckler doesn't have the move speed penalty the Gorgomega has, either.
And it doesn't have the double damage shield bash either.
I think that comparing to Heater Shield isn't a good idea in this case. While it probably is superior, let's not forget that Heater Shield is underpowered given that it only has one status resistance whereas most 5* shields with no ability, extra defence, or fancy shield bash have two.
The Teddy looks pretty balanced with most other shields to me. For example, Dread Skelly has a different resistance and more Shadow than Normal. This makes it more suitable for environment with a large amount of projectiles and of course where there's poison.
Other than being an overall really solid shield, the only thing I can see it being good at is tanking Silversaps. It has more Normal than Gorgomega, so it should take those even better.
As for comparing it to Heater Shield, Heater Shield is clearly underpowered and arguably rightfully so. It branches off the Cobalt line and requires less effort to get than other lines.
So far as shields go it WOULD fit in with the Aegis sidegrades since it has defense values that match up with the other sidegrades. While only the Heater can be crafted it is widely accepted that the Power Mitt is the Box Exclusive Fire resistant version of the Heater.
Speaking of the Barbarous Thorn Shield it is actually balanced and on par with the Heater and Power Mitt. Why? It fits in with the games "Rules". The Teddy Buckler doesn't....
Compare Mercurial Mail with Ice Queen..... Both have matching values in defense, BUT the Mercurial trades a status resist for a non-defensive boost. BTB is just a Pierce resist Heater shield that traded a status resist for a Damage bonus.
Hypothetically if OOO made a Prize Box item that offered the same amount of defense as the BTS but offered a Sword damage Med boost AND an additional Sword ASI med. Would that be pay to win?
Take a look at this: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Special_Delivery_(item_set)
In the update history note that the Set boost was changed.....
The Boost itself was small, just 25 HP........ still the players complained that this set put favor towards the players who could pay for the set.
@Holy-Nightmare
You need to consider balance for cost as well- Heater shield is part of the azure line, and works excellently as an end that isn't Aegis. For instance, you need a shield but are being cheap... you get heater instead of Aegis, you now have a semi-decent shield for considerably less cost, since all of the recipes were handed to you (except the 5*) and your shield was about equally well rounded for most situations (only better vs statusless + piercing) as cobalt.
Compare this to most standard shields (Grey owlite, skelly, crest of almire) which have about the same amount of stat behind them, but two statuses. How is this fair? They cost more and don't have as well rounded coverage, meaning that you'd have to use a combination of many shields to cover everything that you need to, or accept being sub par against those things. This shield is simply not balanced with the cheaper shield formula, and is again, a novelty- meaning that what it is balanced with is relatively inconsequential, as long as it isn't incredibly unique (celestial shield) or blatantly over powered (shield bracelet).
And don't get me wrong- I'd much rather they not create items like this that are unique and fun but only in boxes. The draw to the shield is that it is a Teddy, and not that it has unique stats. It would also be a good idea to find a middle ground, releasing all new items as reskins first and then later adding them in as craftable items, or perhaps making unboxed items purchasable on the supply depot one year later during sales (for normal prices) only. A clear middle ground would make destroy the pay 2 win aspect in an instant.
EDIT: Someone knocked on my door and I clicked twice, triggering the double post bug
Hypothetically if OOO made a Prize Box item that offered the same amount of defense as the BTS but offered a Sword damage Med boost AND an additional Sword ASI med. Would that be pay to win?
Yes. But that hypothetical situation is not a good analogue for what is currently happening, because the "pay to win" item would be better than anything currently in the game. A better analogue is:
Three Rings makes a prize box shield that is identical to BTS, but trading piercing defense for elemental defense.
Even that's not a great analogue for what's happening, because the "pay to win" item would be among the best in the game. What's happening here is that the "pay to win" item is mid-range, and you want it to be low-end for some reason.
"The issue is that it is still a P2W item.
Valve noticed that players in TF2 did not like the concept of Pay to Win sets (some even stopped playing) and changed that in the 2013 patch.
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/July_10,_2013_Patch"
At this point, they don't even care.
Milk the remaining whales in the game and then when even they are gone, this game will shut off for good. I'm actually pleasantly surprised that they designed a new shield!
Again, game had so much potential. Really disappointing to see it in this state.
At this point, they don't even care. Milk the remaining whales in the game and then when even they are gone, this game will shut off for good. I'm actually pleasantly surprised that they designed a new shield! Again, game had so much potential. Really disappointing to see it in this state.
Without commenting on whether I agree or not, let me just emphasize that people have been making posts just like this for the past four years.
I hope to Glob they eventually add in crafting paths to recreate box items. Yes the Heater shield is crafted from the Cobalt line which makes it cheaper. Does that make it fair to make this shield better than the Power Mitt then? It is also a Box only item that offers the same amount of damage resists but it only has one status.
Back in the earlier days of Promo Box items they were ONLY reskins and I was happy with that.
@ Bopp
The analogy is accurate the one you offer is more on par with the Power Mitt vs Heater shield situation where both have a matching amount stats.
BTS and Your hypothetical shield both have one normal bar, one type defense bar, one HP bar, and one buff.
My hypothetical shield has TWO buffs much like the Teddy Buckler has TWO status resists. It doesn't have to be better than every shield in the game to be OP, it just has to have better stats than those in it's group.
This shield is a symptom of Power Creep
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PowerCreep
I still don't see your point. Can you explain again why the Teddy Bear is better than say... the Dread Skelly Shield, Grey Owlite Shield, or the Crest of Almire? Because all of those shields offer normal defense, specialized defense, and two status resists. If you don't mind the movement speed decrease, than you can also throw in 3 of the Tortodrone shields.
Power Creep would imply that the newest shield is unambiguously better than all the alternatives. I don't see that at all.
I'm saying it is better than the shields that offer IDENTICAL defense bars. DSS, GOS, COA, has defense bars that don't match the ones in the OP.
We all agree on the facts of the argument. What we disagree on is the framing of the argument.
* Holy-Nightmare wants to compare Teddy Bear only to certain shields that are most similar to it. Because it is more powerful than those shields, he concludes that Teddy Bear is overpowered.
* The rest of us (as far as I can tell) want to compare Teddy Bear to all other shields. Because it is fairly middling, we conclude that it is not overpowered.
So we're arguing past each other. Further argumentation is pointless.
I organize shields in groups, that's just how I am.
When this shield came out I immediately put in in the group with Heater, PM, and BTS. It stood out from that group due to that extra status resist.
Grey Owlite, Dread Skelly, and Royal jelly are in another group and their values all match.
Type damage tortoshields are a subgroup of the one above since they have a give and take with the MSI and Bash damage but identical values in the rest of the areas.
COA, Dragonscale, and Celestial shield are in another. In this group however the Box only Celestial shield is underpowered since it lacks status resists. (I would suggest a buff)
VPS and IPS are in their own little group.
Next is the Ancient Plate and Grand tortoise as they are the closest to each other.
The Aegis and Omega Shell are the only ones I put alone since they don't fit in anywhere.
__________________________________________________
If you group the shields up like this you can see how the Teddy Buckler stands out (and how the Celestial shield fades into the background).
Keep in mind that stun is one of the least common status effects in the game as no enemy can be "themed" to deal it, rather are hard-coded to do it. You will be inflicted with fire in a fire level more often than you will be inflicted with stun in most other levels.
Shadow enemies do have the most stun dealing attacks from what I can remember however, as grievers, trojans, zombies, and overtimers all inflict the status. Compare this to piercing's giant lichen colony and elemental's thwacker/lumbers.
Used this shield a bit yesterday, and it's not any more powerful than any other shield would be. Ran through apocrea with it and was able to block more griever mist bits, but all that does is gets you swarmed more anyways by the last wave so it's not like it's helpful.
Bottom line is that the shield is not OP in the game environment, and is not trash like the other box-only shields. The good part about this shield is that there is a very close non-paid shield, so if you like its defenses and don't have the money for it, then it's not really a problem. Celestial shield is a problem because it is a completely unique shield with nothing close to its defense values, so it's a bad shield to have behind a paywall regardless of how bad it might be in combat.
The last Greaver wave is a hot mess to begin with..... this shield may not be the greatest but statwise it is better.
The Celestial shield has identical defense values as the Dragon Scale shield but it lacks status resists.
Also Gremlin knockers and Gremlin demos can inflict stun as well.
The wiki page you linked states directly that the Teddy Bear Buckler has nearly the same stats as the Gorgomega, which took me about 4 days of casual play to acquire.