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Some ideas for balancing the various blast bombs

8 replies [Last post]
Thu, 08/27/2015 - 15:15
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Nitronome

Remove all knockback and make its explosion look less violent.

The reason nitronome is shunned by many is because of how obnoxious it is. What does obnoxious mean? Dark brier barrage is, when used against neutral enemies, the same as nitronome but without any knockback or eye crushing visuals. This change would also make the item considerably more noob and child friendly.. instead of learning to master knockback in parties right off the bat (which gunners and sword have much less of), bombers are immediately only a net positive for the party.

Irontech Destroyer

Becomes a buffed version of current nitronome- keeps its current damage and stun, but gains all of nitronome's other properties.

A good number of people love the current nitronome and would object to it being removed from the game. To add incentive to using this now more dangerous variant to nitronome, it should keep its current good offensive stats.

Big Angry Bomb

Improved damage, stronger stun and weak fire!

It's currently hard to place, obnoxious towards everyone around it and generally regarded as being trash. What it does do well however, is push enemies away from the knight and keep them there. If the weapon is to ever see use while staying true to its fans, it will have to do what it does but much better because lets face it, it kind of sucks. Stronger stun keeps them there longer while stronger damage and fire make it more worthwhile in general.

Heavy deconstructor

Branches later and goes to 5*, Grants MSI: high while it is out, no knockback, same bomb radius and stats in general.

Less damage, faster move speed. That's what makes current nitronome better than current irontech destroyer.. heavy deconstructor could keep this balance but to a more balanced extent- without radius or as much damage, it becomes a worse choice in general for everything except mobility which it excels at. A patch like this would not break the item offensively, but would definitely make the item highly desirable.

Alternatively, it could just become elemental nitronome. You know, if this is too extreme.

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 16:10
#1
Supnaplamqw's picture
Supnaplamqw
Hmm...

Nitronome's change would definitely make it party friendly,but the knockback seems to be a very prominent positive in single player

I don't really object to Iron tech Destroyer's revisions,as long as it takes longer.

What I suggest for Big Angry Bomb is to keep the long loading time,give it better stun and radius,and make the blast transparent.I think the biggest problem w/ nitronome is the animation,though its frequent blasts(knockback) are a problem.Lowered frequency,transperent blasts,and increased radius would greatly help it.

MSI?I suggest that it's anti construct attribute is amplified by giving it elemental pure damage and keeping the construct bonus,all while reducing the detonation time.

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 17:50
#2
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
hmmmm

Making Nitro no knockback would be good.

I would upvote the Irontech change if it gets faster walk speed as well.
BAB should be also get a bit of a speed boost but not too much.

Deconstructor would be great as an elemental weapon and would be desired even with the lowered damage from monster perk.

I don't think you could get "MSI while active" to work in the game engine programming wise and I'm pretty sure it would end up as a 4th slot item for everyone who dumps $$$ into playing LD and wants a free MSI boost even if they don't use the bomb. Still it could be made to have no movement penalty while charging while making sure all the rest of the blast bombs do.

Fri, 08/28/2015 - 06:10
#3
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Iron tech would basically become current nitro but better, since it would have the extra damage and stun. This keeps the positive parts of nitro's knockback intact, and values using a crazier explosive.

Big angry could change however, it just needs to be better in general. It's supposed to be menacing and it kind of fails... Not as much as it used to but still.

The msi thing could go on a new blast bomb and is probably possible... Different weapons slow you down while charging, why can't one speed you up? Like I said heavy deconstructor could just be made elemental or something dull like that.

Fri, 08/28/2015 - 08:42
#4
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@ Fehzor

I would go with MSI boost while the weapon is fully charged.... just having an item out affect you is kind of stupid

http://orig10.deviantart.net/43d0/f/2007/075/3/3/tloz__iron_boots_by_sal...

Fri, 08/28/2015 - 09:18
#5
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Yea, fully charged or in the process of being charged could be good for it.. my concern is that it would be rather awkward dropping it and then experiencing some slowdown mid-fight or when you go to shield. It could also give you a small speed-boost orb every time you drop it, that lasted a little longer than it took you to charge the next one with zero ctr and gave the equivalent of MSI: high.

Really though the exact mechanics aren't as important as the underlying idea is, and also just having the item out makes perfect sense- the bomb clearly just needs to be in your hands to activate, just as the iron boots are enchanted and only activate on your feet.

Fri, 08/28/2015 - 10:09
#6
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Hmm.

I had the start of something typed up yesterday but I never finished it and whatnot because distractions.

But the whole cobalt line is built around knockback. Calibur, blaster... Having the one thing that explodes not have knockback would be a little offsetting.
I would say give the irontech line the knockdown instead of knockback.

Changing all blast bomb visuals would be a step in the right direction however.

MSI on deconstructor is eh. Not needed really. Elemental damage, even if it's only at 4*, would be pretty amazing. Having the elemental damage bomb be 4* would actually be better than making it go up to 5*, because then players don't feel obligated to make the 5* version and heat that up to level 10 to be effective.
I've always kind of considered an elemental blast bomb as something that will be stupid effective, and locking it behind 4* would actually make it a bit more balanced. Besides, 4* keeps going into stratum 6 as of right now, so it's still good.

Fri, 08/28/2015 - 11:51
#7
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

If this is the case then perhaps the cobalt line should not be built around knocking things back. A functional nitro is better than a dangerous one that fits a theme.

And yes, I'd want to see how the msi played out before putting it in.

Fri, 08/28/2015 - 13:27
#8
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Perhaps

I understand. Functional nitro and all... It's more the fact that it's cobalt that waivers me. If Three Rings wants to pull a TF2 and do a major rebalancing and be all like "ehh, forget the rules, let's make new ones!" it would be all fine and dandy.

Heck I'd be all for Irontech stuff being a branch from the 2* blast bomb and be essentially what we need in the nitronome. Give us the 3* recipe for free from mission rewards before we get the 3* blast bomb recipe and you've got a good incentive to make it.

We can really make any change we want to make with irontech and BAB, but it's a bit harder to make those same changes to nitronome, as much as it is needed. Without a major rebalance I'd say change irontech. With a major change woo woo, let's go down the nitro-line!

Irontech already sort of looks like it could be a frag grenade, which wouldn't be knockback but instead shrapnel. Could work like that in the long run anyways, especially with an edited explosion appearance and maybe sound.

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